<p>So what is going on here? Are the parents who are packaging their kids and spendinf thousands on consultants nuts? Are they any crazier than the people running an institution that spends millions each year creating demand that they can't or won't satisfy? Harvard, Princeton, Yale and the other very elite schools spend a fortune each year convincing high school kids and their parents and the public that admitence to their schools is a sure fire ticket to success in the future and validation of your life to date. They are the ones busily creating the demand then we are supposed to be surprised that people buy into it and do crazy things?</p>
<p>anyone else? The Simon and Garfunkel lyrics that use the poem are even more appropo. FWIW, I see, in my job at a more or less open admissions public university in Kentucky, the end effect of the packaging and the distortions that some young people undergo. It's not just a "top shelf" school phenomenon. And it's not pretty.</p>
<p>Soozievt hit the nail on the head "Still there is a difference between creating a "persona", and just supporting a kid's choices"</p>
<p>On a happier note on the much happier secondary thread - chance encounters with famous people. In my hometown of Natchitoches, La., I ran into John Wayne at the local five and dime while he was filming "The Horse Soldiers." There are many intact anti-bellum homes there, the damnyankees never entered the area :-)</p>
<p>I was long gone when Julia Roberts and company showed up in Natchitoches to film "Steel Magnolias" but recognized many of the extras from townspeople I had known before I left in '72.</p>
<p>My goodness. I know the girl who transferred from Holmdel to Keyport. </p>
<p>As the article states, my high school is very competitive. Many brilliant kids don't make the top 10%. The Asian population is large, and, yes, many Asian kids play piano. (Actually, several of my friends go to the the same teacher that this girl did.) </p>
<p>It is very difficult to stand out here at Holmdel, yet we each have done it. Many of us have been fortunate enough to earn acceptances to excellent schools already, during the ED1 and ED2 rounds. However, we never talk about this girl, because, by spending 4 years at Holmdel High School, we have achieved much greater things than a mere Yale acceptance.</p>
<p>There is always merit to playing fairly, and I think my friends and I, who will be graduating from Holmdel this spring, are all the better for playing this admissions game fairly.</p>
<p>I just want to say that what a lot of people have been writing on this thread is right on. I know that some one said "Our children aren't products, we don't need to market them" (or something along those lines.) I feel that we college-bound students have become one-person circus acts for colleges and universities all over the country. One thing that we all know (but rarely acknowledge) is that top-notch universities use great, motivated students as a form of cheap advertisement-- to encourage more excellent students to want to come to their schools. This way, schools like the Ivies and others get a place on the best colleges lists according to Newsweek or Time or whoever. This is just the type of mentality that allows counselors such as Shaw and Cohen to charge exorbitant amounts of money to get students into these top universities.<br>
In my opinion, this is outrageous. I would not want to be the girl who had to enter the Miss Teen pagaent so that she could showcase her piano skills before others to garner recognition to set herself apart from other very qualitified students. Here, I put forth the following question: Where do we draw the line when it comes the types of stunts that universities will have us perform to gain admission?<br>
My firm opinion is that great students will continue to be great anywhere. Sometimes I really wonder what role schools like Harvard, Yale, or Stanford have in creating what they term as the "cream of the crop." If these able-minded students continue going to other perfectly respectable schools that just happen not to be Ivies, they will certainly create competition and thus provide for the esablishment of new benchmarks for the other students to perform by.
Deviating from the main topic, I'd like to point out that the best students in other countries do not have any time for extra-curricular activities. They spend all their time studying or getting tutored. I am not saying that this is completely beneficial in the sense that leadership positions early on are important as well as exercise to a certain degree. But, I see no reason why students here or anywhere should have to simultaneously excel at a few sports as well as school. I know many of you may disagree, but I feel athlete recruitment is harmful for students.<br>
For these reasons and others, I believe that good students should continue their academic excellence and not worry about where they get in. I'd like to point out that based on some rough estimates, I have discovered that if I want to study at Stanford for the full 10 to 12 years that it takes to be a neurosurgeon, either I or my parents will have to fork up nearly 1 million dollars. I have been talking to some family friends in other countries and have found out that there are great instituitions in countries like India where I could complete the process in 4 (though very concentrated) years at less than $50,000 dollars for the whole four years. </p>
<p>This idea that "you're not good enough, you need to change yourself" permeates our culture across the board in so many ways, and its psychological effect is nothing short of a tragedy. It extends from our body- image to college admissions, and the effects in each are similarly devastating. In hiring these college counselors, these parents are sending the message to their kids (who are already bombarded with this ideology constantly) that who they are is somehow not good enough, that their very identities are fatally flawed and therefore need to be revamped. What does that do to a person, coming from one's own parents? In my view, it's enough to permanently undermine self- esteem and self- confidence. And in the long run, those are really what are going to bring one happiness and success. I have to question: are all these kids really happy at their name- brand ivy? If they're not happy and fulfilled, then what is the point?</p>
<p>BE CAREFUL!!!!!! Last year I looked at Ivysuccess when I was considering hiring some help. At that time they had more partners listed, including a professor from Harvard. Because of my suspicious nature I e-mailed her. She had no affiliation whatsoever with them. I also asked for other parents e-mails so I could contact them re the help they got. They were all FAKE. I did track down a mom based upon info included in a response from one of the fake e-mails; not only had she not written me the e-mail, she had paid several thousand dollars to Mr whatever his name is now (not the full pkg he told me she bought), but received very little help ( a few phone calls).</p>
<p>Not everything on the internet is as it appears...certainly this company is not.</p>
<p>PS When I googled (and googled and googled) the three e-mail addresses which were supposedly "references", two showed up in ads looking for SAT/GMAT/LSAT etc tutors.</p>
<p>I know it's not the popular opinion on this board, but I used ivysuccess and my child got in to Harvard with lower rank and test scores than three other kids who had applied in the same year.</p>
<p>I had no problems with them and their references all checked out. The bottomnline is unless admissions is based on academics, is will always be subjective. Compared to what we paid for private school tutition, ivysuccess was a bargain!</p>
<p>Don't know how their references could have checked out. Also, fyi, almost all of their "partners" have disappeared rom their web pages. </p>
<p>Here is an excerpt of the response to my enquiry of one of their listed "partners":</p>
<p>"Dear Ms. ***,
I am not affiliated with Ivy Success in any way, and my name should not be on
any of their materials. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. </p>
<p>Is there any way I could get a copy of the letter? It seems clear that I will
need to take some action against the company."</p>
<p>If the company was truly legit, why fake this and the references??</p>
<p>BTW, proudharvardmom, what pkg did you buy, and what were your d's stats?</p>
<p>We went with the big package. I understand they do change staff yearly based on performance and they only take 20 kids per partner every year, so they do screen students heavily and only work with those they feel comfortable with. </p>
<p>I actually worked with a partner and someone who was a former admission officer at another Ivy, but wasnt listed on the website because he prefers to be anonomous. As I understand it, they have access to alot of former ivy admissions officers and few want to be identified publically.</p>
<p>I met with them in person in New York and spoke to their references in my area, so I know they're legit. One kid got into Wharton with 1320 SAT, 2 got in to Princeton with 1420 and 1440 range. In addition, I saw case studies of previous students which validated their claims. </p>
<p>My son had 1480 on the old SAT I and was ranked top 5. Three other kids had 1520-1600 SATs and better activities. He applied from a private school but all his counselor did was to make a list of colleges for him to apply to, and that was a dismal list.</p>
<p>Their approach is very different than traditional consultants, and they are definately not suitable for many out there, but for kids who attend ultra-competitive high schools with severe competitors, I think they are worth it.</p>
<p>What do you do if your kid is a great kid, but has lower grades and test scores, or doesnt play sports, or doesnt have parents who attended Ivies, or isnt a minority? I find discussions of fairness such a departure from what actually goes on in college admissions it's unreal.</p>
<p>Forgive my disbelieving nature, but based upon my previous experience with ivysuccess, I suspect proudharvardmom is somehow connected. In my opinion, they are a sham (hmmm, a mom who was willing to pay 25k for admissions help but didn't discover CC until this week????And this is her first post??? please......). I actually spoke to a mom who used them, and not only had they forged her name to an e-mail reference (yes forged!!!!), she had not paid them the amount they said nor was she happy with them. Buyer Beware...college admissions is a huge industry and there are alot of scammers out there just waiting to take advantage of well meaning parents.</p>
<p>I'd like to point out that a kid from a private school with a a "1480 on the old SAT I" and a "top 5" rank is very likely to be competitive for admissions to an Ivy against kids with "1520-1600 SATs"and better activities. " You don't need to pay $25K to find that out -- that statement just reflects a total misunderstanding of the role of SAT's, how they are used by admissions, and the role of EC's. Grades, class rank, and strength of curriculum are always more important than SAT scores. EC's help differentiate one candidate from another, but they will only function as a "hook" at an Ivy if the kids accomplishments are outstanding, such as attaining state-wide or national recognition in a competitive endeavor. </p>
<p>I am also skeptical of our newly arrived "Proudharvardmom" -- though it is very possible that the experience of a parent who actually bought a full package from ivysuccess would be different than the parent who opted for a cheaper arrangement. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the issue of honesty of the people who run the organization is different than the issue of effectiveness of their strategies. I mean... when it comes down to it ... a dishonest college admissions consultant might be exactly what is needed to bolster the application of a marginal candidate. I mean -- for $25K maybe you can get someone to write the college essays for your kid and a few phony recommendation letters thrown in, too. Who knows? Maybe there are some dishonest ad coms out there and a little cash under the table may make the difference in some cases, too. </p>
<p>So maybe the ivysuccess people DO cheat -- and maybe cheating is exactly what works in a lot of cases. </p>
<p>I'm not accusing anyone of anything -- but there is a relatively high turnover in staff of college admissions offices, and there is no particular background that qualifies one to be an admissions officer. Most colleges use a system of prescreening apps where the opinion of the first reader can be very influential on the outcome. In some cases a single reader can decide whether to admit or reject an applicant. Usually there will be no more than 2 reads of an application unless the readers disagree - and then it usually goes to the full committee, where the first reader will have a chance to make a pitch. But 2 readers can just as easily be good friends who decide to save time and cut down the hours they have to sit in the committee room by collaborating on applications, privately agreeing to agree on all their shared apps. </p>
<p>So basically it is a system that creates opportunities for corruption and influence peddling, whether or not it actually occurs. It occurs in every other walk of life -- why not college admissions?</p>
<p>I'm not going to argue with what's right and wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In my mind, the system is wrong to begin with!</p>
<p>Our school was so competitive that plenty of students got rejected from good schools with good grades and test scores. I think every child's situation is different and people should do their own research to see what works for them. </p>
<p>My experience with them was great, and I know of many clients who had positive experiences, so I'm surprised at your claims here, since you weren't a client. People should do their own due diligence!</p>
<p>One last anecdotal note - if people here are experts on college admissions, there wouldn't be any "secrets" to the process riht?</p>
<p>Calmom...you're absolutely right that two customers, especially one who pays for a higher level of service might have very different experiences. I'm just not sure why Mr. Hsueh wouldn't have given me legitimate references then and why ivysuccess would sink to setting up bogus e-mails that they themselves could respond to. Something is not right.</p>
<p>Yes proud, people should do their own due diligence. I'm certainly glad I did mine. And the irony is that DD did just fine w/o 25k of help (although the price was 18k ly) and is off to a school that she is thrilled to be going to!</p>
<p>I'm a a bit surprised by College Confidential's response to this thread...i.e., letting it continue. Other threads have been pulled when a poster has even mentioned the name of a college counseling site that competes with the one that is sponsoring these forums, at least if the mention was a positive one, based on the rules for posting. It is striking that they are allowing this one to continue since it slams a competitor. Make me wonder if perhaps sarap has an association with College Confidential and is disingenuously using the thread to flame a competitor?????</p>
<p>NYC private student parents will have to spend more than 100 to 250k when their kids graduate from HS. Is it worth to spend another 10 to 25k for college counseling? I don't know the answer but I will have to face this question myself soon. I do agree to what funkyspoon said. I will never trade my son's education for Yale admission. I know my son well enough to know that he will not be learned as much in public school. That's just his personality. What about education? Do parents need to care about it in addition to college admission?</p>
<p>I don't know very much about Holmdel, but if many of them have earned acceptances to excellent schools already, during the ED1 and ED2 rounds. I would be very happy of those kids who stay in Holmdel. They have made the right decisions.</p>
<p>My son school sends more than 25% of the student to Ivy schools. What happens if the Ivies do not accept him? I think I am still happy with the education he receives. There is life after Harvard. God, I hope I make the right decision if I don't spend another 25k to join the Gold rush.</p>
<p>Quitguru: sorry but I have no connection to CC other than a great deal of respect for the service(s) they provide. This is a pretty great forum for someone to host, and other than the personalized services they offer it comes at no charge.</p>
<p>Perhaps the thread hasn't been pulled because I am not slamming another service, just informing on my experience.</p>
<p>proudharvardmom is fortunate to have the wherewithal to go the last mile to try to ensure success for her child. </p>
<p>Certainly I was surprised by my son's Harvard acceptance, not because he is not a great student, but because what we on CC all know - the competition is intense and the decisions (from the outside, not knowing the class makeup they are trying to put together) seem capricious.</p>
<p>If ivysuccess is fradulent, may they go out of business immediately, but if not, I think you have to admire their business savvy -it just goes one step beyond ensuring that the child takes 'enough' APs, gets the 4th year of a language, auditions for all-state band every year, etc. The whole process in today's world is all madness in a way, just a matter of degree.</p>