<p>saraP, I think it is very important to point out that these boards are anonymous and that anyone can post anything for any reason. I find it interesting that someone who has only 17 posts in 6 months comes in to accuse someone who is new of duplicity..when there is no evidence to the contrary that you are not duplicitous yourself...other than your rather obsequious comments about CC. And I find it interesting that your posts which indeed do slam another company are still on this board. I'm not saying I don't believe you OR proud, just that all readers should approach these kinds of posts with caution. And posters should be aware of potential consequences of what they post.</p>
<p>qg while I agree with you that it's best to always remember the pros and cons of confidentiality, I normally find that checking a poster's other posts is enough for me. In SaraP's case, while 17 posts isn't a lot (maybe she has more of a life than I do!) they certainly don't indicate that she's a "ringer" of any kind.</p>
<p>obviously consultants are not for everyone, so it's a very personal decision. Some schools have good counselors, some don't, so I think it's too simplistic to say in a blanket statement what works and what doesn't work. We went with them because our child was discouraged from applying to top colleges by the school counselor, so we needed other options. </p>
<p>I saw with my own eyes acceptance letters and applications from their students (names blocked off) before I signed up, so I have no problems with them. Also read dozens of emails from happy parents and students!</p>
<p>quiltguru: much more of a lurker than poster. And my comments were not intended as a slam, just the facts of what transpired. It is certainly something we all need to remember when using the internet...things may not be as they appear.</p>
<p>Excellent question, but you left out the bi-racial kids.</p>
<p>I am new to CC and I was wondering if you hit reply to respond to a posting why doesn't it show up in the same area? I just noticed I responded to someone's comments and it is completely out in left field at the end of this thread.</p>
<p>Welcome to CC. If the problem is a visual one, you may try hitting your refresh or reload button. Let us know if the problem persists.</p>
<p>However, if the question is about where your reply shows up, then the answer is different. All posts on CC show up in the chronological order of their postings. </p>
<p>Trinity</p>
<p>Raichel: One way to respond directly to someone's post is to use their name as I just did.</p>
<p>I'd just like to revive this thread. Does anyone know about any client feedback from other consulting firms such as From my understanding, both Katherine Cohen and Dr. Michelle Hernandez charge ~$32,000 for their college consulting services which can begin as early as 7th and 8th grade. Both of these firms are more expensive than Ivy Success, which charges $25,000 I think. But, it seems like this thread has just denigrated IvySuccess while leaving other consultants like Katherine Cohen and Michelle Hernandez alone. Does anyone here have any verification for Sarap's claims above that Ivy Success is a fraudulent firm? If so, why is it that that IvySuccess and Mr. Robert Shaw are quoted in articles in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, and the New York Times. All of these articles can be found on the "In the News" link found at To verify this, I did a google search and pulled up these articles from [and the website of the College Bound magazine that is featured in the IvySuccess website. </p>
<p>Also, it really seems like IvySuccess was getting bashed throughout this whole thread. Does anyone know if the State District Attorney in New York has launched an investigation into this firm or determined that it is fraudulent? The claims made by Sarap above about the firm being a fraud are serious legal claims and I'm assuming that if the firm is a fraud, some sort of legal action must have been taken against them. Their website would not be up and accessible and they would no longer be able to sign clients. This really doesn't add up. If anyone could contribute some info here, I'd really appreciate. it.</p>
<p>POST EDITED BY MODERATOR SKYHAWK. Posting links to competive sites is not allowed by the College Confidential terms of service.</p>
<p>Eulogia, if you have $25,000 to spend, there are much better ways to do it than with a high-priced college consulting firm. Sarap didn't say Ivywest was a "fraudulent firm" - Saraps post merely stated that there was false or hyped info on their web site, which in turn called their business practices into question. "False advertising" is not the same as saying a business is entirely fraudulent. </p>
<p>Most of these firms are charging you a very high premium for services which could be gotten for much less -- the clients they accept area already strong candidates for Ivies -- if not, they either refuse the client or redirect the client to another college. They help package an application, which probably does slightly improve the person's likelihood of acceptance --- but what they are very, very good at is separating parents from their money. </p>
<p>If you are naive enough to think that a company would be put out of business and their web site taken down over the type of claim that Sarap made - or take the fact that someone associated with the firm is quoted in an article about admissions, then I would say that you are exactly the sort of easy mark that these businesses are targeted at.</p>
<p>The truth is that all of these consultant firms will probably spend many hours of time working with their clients in order to do for them what most intelligent people can do for themselves -- especially since Katherine Cohen and Michelle Hernandez have written books pretty much summarizing their point of view. But the point is that the businesses are not fraudulent -- they are just charging outrageously high prices for a service that is at best only of moderate value, especially in a context where the vast bulk of their expertise is concerning information readily available via other sources.</p>
<p>I have to wonder: there are several people posting here who have never posted before. They are seemingly defending these firms. Ummm...could they be ASSOCIATED with these firms and posting anonymously.</p>
<p>Bottomline: it is always wise to take what you read here - and elsewhere on the internet - with a grain of salt. Do your own research, make your own decisions. :)</p>
<p>As for consultants, I believe they have a role. BUT (and it's a big but), I'd hesitate to hire a consultant who only specialized in getting kids into certain schools. In my mind, a consultant should serve as a guide, helping you find great options that you may not have considered, not just pushing the Ivy schools as "the best" for every child. Too many parents have fallen into that trap of thinking, and seem more interested in hiring consultants to get their kids into "name brand schools" rather than the RIGHT school.</p>
<p>calmom: I do agree with you that admissions consultants are over-priced and that some of the information they can give is readily available through other sources. However, I find it hard to believe that people would actually pay Michelle Hernandez and Katherine Cohen $32,000 if all the information they could provide is available via a $20 book sold at your local Barnes&Noble Booksellers. I think people are paying for these services because these consultants are able to draw from their years of admissions experience at <strong>insert Ivy here</strong> and help present their clients in such a way as to catch the eye of admissions officers. Dr. Hernandez posts the admissions rates of her clients right on her website (which I can't link to here). The vast majority of her clients are admitted to their #1 choice school and I'm willing to bet that those schools are Ivy League schools or Ivy-caliber schools. I do agree with you though that these firms are probably selecting clients that had solid academic credentials to begin with. But as I'm sure you know, having high SATs and a high GPA is not enough to be admitted to a top 20 college or university. </p>
<p>As for your comment that I would be naive to believe that the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post quotes of Mr. Shaw from IvySuccess prove that the firm is legitimate, I find it hard to believe that these respected, national newspapers would quote someone from a firm that has already been exposed for shady/questionable business practices. Wouldn't the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post look at bit foolish/unresearched if they quoted someone from a firm that flaunted business ethics and came under investigation by the State District Attorney of New York? I'm fairly certain that rsepected national newspapers would at least check their facts that ensure that the people they're depending on for "insider/expert" quotes are indeede legitimate "industry insiders." False advertising is not something that should be taken lightly and I do believe that false advertising does
constitute "fraudulent" business practicies. I'm also convinced that Sarap came here for the sole purpose of discrediting IvySuccess so I'm convinced that she's connected to a competitor in the industry. </p>
<p>Carolyn: I think proudharvardmom stated that she was a client of a consulting firm. As for sarap, I'm guessing she's connected to the consulting firm promoted by this website. I'm currently on the market for a college consultant and stumbled across this thread after a google search with the keywords "The Secret World of College Admissions." A friend told me to read that article so I googled it and this thread popped up instead of the article I was looking for.</p>
<p>Eulogia, I have been contacted by journalists working for the Wall Street Journal and other major newspapers several times about issues related to college admissions simply based on my posts to this forum and other internet boards. They do not ask me for my qualificiations or check me out -- they simply ask whether I am willing to talk about some aspect of college admissions. I'm not the only poster here who has had that happen -- there was an article in a major newspaper a few months ago that had quotes from individuals that were instantly recognizeable to regulars on this board. I know that my son was contacted by a journalist - also from WSJ - and interviewed by phone during his high school senior year. He told me later that he didn't think he would be quoted in the article because he wasn't giving the answers that the journalist seemed to want. </p>
<p>Basically, my experience has been that journalists will talk to anyone who is willing to talk to them in order to get quotes from a story. A reputable journalist can't make up quotes -- but as long as the quote accurately identifies who made it (or, in the case of an anonymous quote, identifies role or status) -- then it can be used and will be a good story. It's free p.r. for whoever talks to the journalist -- and to quote so-and-so of such-and-such definitely is NOT an endorsement or representation of the quality of services. I mean, if "Ken Lay of Enron" said his company was profitable, that doesn't make it so. So yes, if you think being quoted in the WSJ means the company is honest and legit... then I've got a bridge to sell you.</p>
<p>Eulogia, the Washington Post and WSJ have aggressive fact-checkers to make sure that quotations are as cited, and that the identifying data on a citation is accurate.... but they do not vet the ethics or the legality of a business person, and you should not assume that from the context of the quotation. You can google the former CEO's of Enron or a host of companies who are the target of investigations by Attorneys General around the company to see just how widely these experts were quoted. Doesn't mean they were honest or not behaving in a fraudulent manner. </p>
<p>I view the college consulting industry in the same way I view the weight-loss industry. Most people who purchase these services (whether Jennie craig or Weightwatchers or whatever) are going to fail; the stats are pretty compelling. Some people find the service useful- they lose weight, they keep it off. Are these the people who are so highly motivated that they would have been successful anyway? Who knows. For them is it worth it? No question. Will it work for you? Who knows.</p>
<p>By and large, the so-called "secrets" are available to anyone with a computer and access to Google, so that's not the issue. The issue is your kid, who presumably, is not a potted plant who you can trim and adjust and move willy-nilly. If your kid is a C student without a lot of interest in academics, the idea that a paid consultant can turn him into Harvard or Swarthmore material in two years is pretty funny, given the hordes of highly qualified kids who get turned down at those schools every year. Could a paid counselor help your kid get into a reach school given his C's? possibly. Is it worth what you'll pay for it? You're the only one who'll ever know...</p>
<p>Calmom-- we posted at the same time and I can't believe we both thought of Ken Lay!</p>
<p>Call me when you're ready to discuss that bridge to sell!!!</p>
<p>Eulogia, I tried to edit my post but my time had run out - so here is the additional comment I wanted to make:</p>
<p>I didn't say that you wouldn't get a valuable service from working with a consultant -- I said that the service is being sold for an inflated value, based primarily on the fact that these consultants are self-styled experts. "Self-styled" because there is no official program of training or qualification -- or any form of official regulation -- of the college consultant. They are "experts" because they say they are. They probably do have a few inside contacts with admissions officers - but they are selling you a service worth maybe $2500 for $25000+. Ultimately, the college consultant has an incentive to steer clients toward the particular schools where the consultant has the best contacts, but also has an incentive to steer some students away from some schools in order to maximize the chances of others they represent. There is also very high turnover among college ad coms, so contacts come and go -- the inside contacts that the consultant had last year may not be there this year. </p>
<p>I have had some email contacts with some of these consultants that was very friendly -- and resulted in my getting answers to a series of questions I had for free. Unfortunately, some of what I was told by the "experts" was mistaken --that is, I was told specific "facts" that were easily checked and turned out to be inaccurate. I think that part of the inaccuracy comes from the expert's client base -- these high priced consultants aren't really knowledgeable about the financial aid process, for example, because clients who can afford their services aren't looking for financial aid. </p>
<p>I'd honestly suggest that you buy and read $20 books FIRST, before paying anything more. At the very least you will be a far more knowledgeable consumer, and you will get better value for your money. If you do hire a college consultant, I think the very first surprise you may run into is that the consultant will be working very hard to sell you on the merits of some college that wasn't even on your radar screen -- that is, you may be thinking "Harvard" and the consultant starts to sing the praises of Middlebury. If you look at the list of first choice colleges that their clients have won admission to, you will see a lot of schools that reach far beyond the Ivies -- one of the ways that these colleges become "first choice" is that the consultants do a good job convincing their clients to apply ED to a somewhat less prestigious college. Some of their "inside secrets" probably turn out to be 10 excellent reasons why they are sure that your kid will hate Harvard. In a way, that in itself is a great service and probably where they are most valuable: helping your child find the best fit college. But then ... do you really want or need to spend $25,000 on that?</p>
<p>I definitely understand your point about the value of the services received and I certainly agree with you there. As a stated at the very beginning of my last post, I do these these services are very over-priced. With all the admissions hysteria of the past few years and the countless hordes of students with high SAT scores and high GPAs getting rejection letters left and right from the school of their dreams, I really think that the student (and parents of students) have to be much more assertive in this process and go far beyond reading "A for Admission" by Dr. Hernandez. The main reason for this is because this information is sold on the mass market and it's likely that the vast majority of applicants to <strong>insert your child's dream school here</strong> have already read that book and know the "strategies." As for the books published by Dr. Hernandez and Dr. Cohen, they're not really divulging any secrets for one simple reason. If they spilled their guts, they would hurt their own consulting businesses. Dr. Hernandez's most recent book entitled * Don't Worry, You'll Get In * includes advice such as, "Use the guidance counselor at your high school as a resource." Do you find that advice "valuable?" I certainly don't. Especially since the guidance counselor at my high school has over 200 students to deal with and it's practically impossible to even get face time with her. I don't think Dr. Hernandez is really dropping any gems of "admissions advice" in her book. I think we might just have differing ideas as to what advice is valuable and actually useful in this process. I will certainly do much more research before I put pressure on my parents to spend the equivalent of a low-end Mercedes on a consulting service. In addition, I'm sure my parents will want to call and speak directly to the consultant before they open their checkbook and fork over a down payment on a house somewhere in the Hollywood Hills. If I feel that the services offered are truly not worth it, I'll just go it alone and depend on websites such as this one and the website offered by the Princeton Review. </p>
<p>Overall, I have to agree with much of what you said and I think it's important for consumers like myself and anyone else in the market to be ever vigilant and heavily research private counselors and admissions firms before they become clients. I'd hate to see the face of a kid who gets roundhouse rejection letters from all the schools he applied to despite having received the consulting services of <strong>insert company here.</strong> I actually have no clue what the "consultant" would tell the kid in that situation. "Well, I'm sorry you didn't even get into your safety schools. But thanks for the $32,000 check! Well, take care and have fun at community college next year. Just treat it like the 13th grade!" I just think it's important to be a smart shopper and know exactly what you're getting yourself into. As the age-old adage goes, "Look before you leap." Ain't that the gosh-darn truth.</p>
<p>Eulogia, I'm sorry - I had assumed that you were a parent posting, but I now see you are a student. I think you are doing a great job for yourself with research so far. I'm also sorry for calling you "naive" - simply because what you posted might be naive for a parent, but your comments and view point are perfectly reasonable for a high school student. Part of the ongoing education we adults have -- and the reason for much of our cynicism -- is from the experience we get as we age. Sooner or later we all get "burned" by expert advice. (I am soooo lucky that I told the relative who works for an investment brokerage and who urged me to invest tech stocks in the late 90's that I thought that the market was overblown and ready to crash at any time -- a good example of where my gut sense served me better than the opinions of so many experts ... and no, I don't think that qualifies me to give investing advice in the future, other than "use your common sense!")</p>
<p>However, I do think that the books by Ms. Hernandez and others tell you what you need to know -- there are no "secrets" beyond what they are explaining, other than the fact that some of these consultants have inside connections and use them. That is, my sense is that Ms. Hernandez or another counselor might call up an admissions officer at Dartmouth and say, "I have an amazing client -- you really need to flag this file and take a good look." -- and maybe they answer the phone and pay attention, while you could never make that call yourself. But they only retain credibility to make that call if they pick & choose their clients carefully. Read "The Gatekeepers" if you want an idea of how that works -- you'll see that the ad com there does want to look out for the students who are recommended by his good friend who works at a prestigious prep school - that is enough to get a student a second look, but won't necessarily get the student in.</p>
<p>But for the most part, Ms. Hernandez is going to follow her own advice -- as will the other counselors -- they just have enough experience to be very good at developing an application package. I mean, the advice to write a good essay or how to act at an interview is easier said than done - I'm sure that you would get a lot of feedback and suggestions on essay-writing from a $25K consultant. But my daughter attends a public high school where the AP English teacher seems to think that the first unit of the year ought to be on "writing your college essay" - and she has arranged for students to have private volunteer tutors to help them polish their essays. I'm not pretending that the volunteers are going to be a capable as a high-priced consultant -- but they will probably help the students tremendously. </p>
<p>I do think that you will find that your parents can get you help that is more targeted to your needs, and much less expensive - if you want it. What you can do is identify your own weaknesses and areas where you feel you would benefit from outside help, if any exist. So if, for example, you are shy and find it hard to talk to strangers and are worried about your interview -- maybe you need someone to give you some pointers and suggestions that will help develop your skills somewhat in that area. I've never seen a "college interview prep" service ---- but if you are creative you may find appropriate resources. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that a good deal of the college admission process is simply one of self-exploration and finding a good match. The best and most qualified person for that task is YOU. If you can be somewhat objective about assessing your own strengths and weaknesses, then you can do an excellent job of targetting colleges which will be a good fit for you and where you have a strong likelihood of admission. If you are well off financially, the other big admission "secret" is that you can increase your chances for admission radically at some colleges via the ED process -- so if you target the right college and you have the right credentials to get in, that may be the secret that will serve you best.</p>
<p>Calmom:</p>
<p>Again, you give solid advice for those reading these threads and using this forum as a resource. I appreciate your advice and will certainly keep it in mind as I do additional research. I'd just like to make a note to anyone else who is coming to these forums wide-eyed and not certain of how they're going to approach the college admissions process. Please do not blindly trust posters like Sarap above who obviously do not care about the consequences of what they post. Do your own research and find out what you need to match your interests in this process. Whether you're looking for a private counselor or a professional admissions consulting firm, be careful about what advice you read on this forum and always approach these threads with a skeptical eye. </p>
<p>As for what you stated about "journalists" from the Wall Street Journal and other "major newspapers" contacting you several times based on what you wrote on these internet forums, I have no clue what to say to that. I have no idea how a legitimate "journalist" from these national newspapers would quote some random person from an internet messageboard. "According to so and so, a regular poster on the College Confidential internet messageboard..." How any journalist would do this and still manage to keep their job is beyond me. Just like everyone else, these journalists have people they have to answer to. All the college admissions articles I've ever read in my life from newspapers, the US News & World Report magazine, college newspapers, and other sources have always quoted former admissions officers from <strong>insert top tier college/university here</strong> or a current Dean of Admissions at <strong>insert top college here.</strong> I've never run across an article that quoted a random poster from a messageboard somewhere on the internet. The simple reason for this is because they're depending on these quotes to lend credibility to the article and to the journalist (to a smaller extent). So I really don't know how to respond to the point you made about journalists from the Wall Street Journal and other newspapers contacting both you and your son.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have no idea how a legitimate "journalist" from these national newspapers would quote some random person from an internet messageboard. "According to so and so, a regular poster on the College Confidential internet messageboard..." How any journalist would do this and still manage to keep their job is beyond me
[/quote]
You would be surprised. And that's not meant to pick on any of the posters here AT ALL. They were contacted, they had a story to tell, and they told it. It's then up to the journalist to check on the veracity of the story, whether there's another side to the story, whether there's a hidden agenda at work, etc. If you poke around this message board a bit there are some threads talking about people's experiences, along with some links to respected publications that did indeed "quote a random poster from a messageboard [this one] somewhere on the internet". </p>
<p>By the way, I'm not sure anyone has welcomed you to the community yet. Good luck in your college search -- there's a couple of threads here that are dedicated to the kids of us parents who are heading into their Senior or Junior years, so please drop in and let us know how things are going.</p>