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"The answer to both of our budget problems is, I take your kids and you take mine, and then they're both nonresidents," Mr. Hodgins said.
[/quote]
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<p>The</a> Cross-Country Recruitment Rush - Students - The Chronicle of Higher Education</p>
<p>Yup, that’s it in a nutshell. The new battleground. Better have something hot to sell.</p>
<p>The California public education system is sinking like the Titanic and the tuition money its residents are taking elsewhere are filling up the coffers of America’s wealthiest public universities like UVA and Michigan whose asset portfolios are solvent and diversified enough to withstand major reductions in state appropriations.</p>
<p>and the tuition money its residents are taking elsewhere are filling up the coffers of America’s wealthiest public universities like UVA and Michigan</p>
<p>I doubt that many Calif students are paying full freight at UVA and UMich and other OOS publics. There may be some, but not enough to make a difference for UCs. UVA gives OOS need based aid. Some other OOS publics (including UMich) give merit based scholarships, which may bring the cost down to similar or less than a UC.</p>
<p>With so many kids needing need-based aid, “trading kids” won’t work. Only UNC and UVA promise to meet need for OOS students.</p>
<p>Uva is planning to change that–costing too much. Adverse selection set in quickly. UNC takes so few it hardly matters.</p>
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<p>Well, then, you’d be surprised. Michigan is about 35% OOS undergrads. Because it doesn’t meet 100% of need for OOS students, there’s a self-selection process that tilts the OOS undergrad student population toward full-pay and low-need kids. Similar outcome but even more so at UVA, which does claim to meet 100% of need but somehow ends up with a remarkably low-need student body (only 33% of UVA undergrads receive any need-based aid, and as best I can tell, only about 20% of OOS undergrads get need-based aid).</p>
<p>Not to say that Californians are flocking to these school en masse. Most of Michigan’s OOS students come from NY-NJ, the Chicago area, and Ohio; Virginia’s I believe mainly from DC-MD and on up the Northeast corridor. But if conditions deteriorate at California’s publics. Michigan and UVA will start to get a serious look from more Californians. As should some other schools. The University of Minnesota’s OOS COA is already cheaper than in-state COA at UC-Berkeley or UCLA, and in some undergrad programs, e.g., engineering and business, it’s competitive with some of the best in the country. </p>
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<p>If they admit them. As the above figures indicate, the “meets full need” statistic can be quite misleading. It’s easy to meet 100% of need for your OOS students if 80% of them are classified as full-pays, as appears to be the case at UVA. In the aggregate, Michigan actually gives a lot more grant and scholarship aid. Michigan’s undergrad population is bigger, 26,000 to about 15,000 at UVA. But Michigan awards $156 million annually in grants and scholarships, compared to $76 million at UVA. Maybe it’s a self-selection process at UVA, or maybe it’s the school’s selection process, but for reasons that remain a mystery to me, very few high-need kids end up enrolled at UVA. Very few.</p>
<p>*I doubt that many Calif students are paying full freight at UVA and UMich and other OOS publics. </p>
<p>===============</p>
<h1>Well, then, you’d be surprised. Michigan is about 35% OOS undergrads. </h1>
<p>Not to say that Californians are flocking to these school en masse. Most of Michigan’s OOS students come from NY-NJ, the Chicago area</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>Right, so that’s why I wouldn’t be surprised. I doubt many Calif kids are flocking to UMich to pay full freight.</p>
<p>I imagine that that a good number of the OOS students are…athletes, students getting merit scholarships, students willing to pay full freight to go to Ross, int’l students, maybe some military paying students, and students whose affluent families are willing to pay for their kids to go anywhere they want.</p>
<p>UVa review link</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/bov/meetings/11nov/AccessUVa%20--%20Full%20Board.pdf[/url]”>http://www.virginia.edu/bov/meetings/11nov/AccessUVa%20--%20Full%20Board.pdf</a></p>
<p>Also at UW Cali students have nearly doubled to 1000. I doubt many get significant fin aid.</p>
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<p>My guess is that something on the order of 1,000 to 2,000 Michigan undergrads are Californians, and that well over half of them are full-pays. Given the number of Californians in that age cohort, I suppose that’s not “flocking,” but it’s not a trivial number.</p>
<p>I am not sure I agree with the notion that CA students are not flocking to Michigan or that those that do are somehow given financial insentives. The fact is, CA is the fourth most represented state at the University of Michigan after Michigan, New York and Illinois. According to the latest figures, Michigan has 900 undergrads from CA (compared to 750 from NJ and 55 from OH). I doubt more than a small fraction of those kids have merit scholarships or generous financial aid packages. Michigan simply does not give out many significant scholarships and is known for being stingy with financial aid to OOS students.</p>
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<p>That’s an interesting assertion, but would only hold water if a comparable number of Michigan and Virginia residents were not likewise flocking to Berkeley or UCLA. Since I can’t speak to the veracity of that notion, does anybody have the data to prove/disprove it?</p>
<p>If the two-way migration is comparable, then all we have is a case of swapping OOS students as the article contended.</p>
<p>Sakky, only 4% of UCLA undergraduate students and 7% of Cal undergraduate students come from other US states. That means roughly 1,000 students at UCLA and 1,700 at Cal (compared to over 8,000 at the University of Michigan) come from the remaining 49 states. I doubt there are more than 100 undergraduates students who come from Michigan at UCLA or more than 150 at Cal. Those numbers do not quite match the 900+ CA students enrolled at Michigan, even if you consider that CA is almost 4 times larger than MI.</p>
<p>Those are old percentages, Alex. Michigan and UVA enroll more OOS students for 2 reasons: 1. The schools are located in states with smaller (and in the case of Michigan declining) populations. And 2. The states divested from public education sooner than California did. Michigan and UVA are just further along in a new era of public disinvestment from higher education. </p>
<p>This is far from an implication of the demise of top California publics. California is a huge state and has many wealthy parents willing to send their kids away for a college experience.</p>
<p>UCB, my figures are based on recent numbers published by Cal and UCLA. I have not seen any data that sugguests that more than 8% and 5% of undergraduates at Cal and UCLA are OOS (not uncluding international students of course).</p>
<p><a href=“http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/UndergraduateProfile.pdf[/url]”>http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/UndergraduateProfile.pdf</a></p>
<p>This said, I am not implying that the UCs are in any sort of trouble, although their financial situation is not nearly as appealing as Michigan or UVa, nor is that likely to change in the foreseeable future.</p>
<p>Actually, Alexandre, those figures you cite are indeed old numbers, comprising the high-school seniors Berkeley used to admit before the recent major admissions reforms (and many of whom are obviously still at Berkeley as upper-classman). What is more relevant is who is being admitted to Berkeley now and it is clear that the student profile is changing dramatically.</p>
<p>*The University of California’s **effort to recruit more out-of-state students **for the extra tuition they pay is having a strong impact on the incoming freshman class, with nonresidents making up 12.3% of the new class, up from 8% in the school year just ended, according to figures released Thursday.</p>
<p>The biggest increases in out-of-state and international students will be concentrated at the three UC campuses that are the most selective, and perhaps most widely known outside California. UC Berkeley will have the largest proportion of such students, nearly 30% of the fall freshman class, up from 23% last fall. UC San Diego and UCLA are next, with about 18% each, also up from last year.*</p>
<p>[University</a> of California: University of California enrolls more out-of-state freshmen - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/01/local/la-me-uc-admit-20110630]University”>University of California enrolls more out-of-state freshmen)</p>
<p>What I have not been able to determine is, regarding the new admissions policy, how many admittees are from Michigan (or Virginia).</p>
<p>That is good to hear Sakky. Michigan is undergoing a similar change, increasing its OOS population from 35% to 40%. I think this trend is going spread across as more states see fit to cut state university finding.</p>
<p>^^^It only makes sense for Michigan to take more out of state students. Lets be honest, a huge percentage of Michigan graduates leave the state upon completion of their degrees. That also includes those that were born and raised in the state.</p>
<p>According to the latest IPEDS data collected in 2009, California still had a net positive annual inflow of students into the state of over 10,000 students, while Michigan showed a net outflow of around 4,000.</p>
<p>California’s net inflow is certainly boosted by a large number of internationals. Despite its economic problems, California loses less than 7% of its residents to other states, still the lowest percentage of any state. Michigan on the other hand, loses around 12% of its residents to other states. </p>
<p>The biggest winner is Arizona with a net inflow of nearly 40,000 annually and the biggest loser is New Jersey with a net outflow of around 30,000 or more than a third of all its residents lost to other states.</p>
<p>[Residence</a> and migration of all freshmen students in degree-granting institutions, by state or jurisdiction: Fall 2008](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_230.asp]Residence”>Residence and migration of all freshmen students in degree-granting institutions, by state or jurisdiction: Fall 2008)</p>
<p>The only reason Michigan hasn’t lost even more population is the amount of internationals that have moved into the state in the past few years.</p>
<p>Best 5 states in ability to retain residents;</p>
<ol>
<li>California 93%</li>
<li>Utah 91%</li>
<li>Arizona 91%</li>
<li>Mississipi 88%</li>
<li>Alabama 88%</li>
</ol>
<p>The West and South perform best.</p>
<p>Worst five states in ability to retain residents:</p>
<ol>
<li>Vermont 47%</li>
<li>New Hampshire 53%</li>
<li>Alaska 57%</li>
<li>Connecticut 57%</li>
<li>New Jersey 63%</li>
</ol>
<p>The Northeast performs the worst especially the smaller NE states, although most residents going OOS stay in the region. </p>
<p>Top 5 states at attracting OOS students:</p>
<ol>
<li>Arizona 48,000</li>
<li>California 40,000</li>
<li>Pennsylvania 38,000</li>
<li>New York 37,000</li>
<li>Florida 28,000</li>
</ol>
<p>Arizona has hit the jackpot especially considering it has a resident student population about 1/8th that of the California resident student population. Strong results from New York and Pennsylvania are impressive.</p>