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Please, lyn, let’s not start with another tired “47%” rant here. You are a pretty new poster and might not know that the kind of political territory you are wading into will get this thread shut down.</p>
<p>Sally, you are correct but this topic is always going to go there. Where else can it go? </p>
<p>Middle-class parents and students don’t have to shell out so much cash and take on so many loans for college. Why do they keep doing it? Tell your kids to go to in-state universities and live at home or in old-fashioned dorms, not university resorts.</p>
<p>But if it will make middle and upper income people feel better to get some freebies, then move to a state like Florida, which awards Bright Futures money to top students (most of whom are middle to upper middle and probably have 529 accounts, too, and likely receive the greatest proportion of any state-funded university scholarships programs as well) and all that Bright Futures money is generated primarily by low income residents. Some of those low income residents probably have kids who might qualify for Pell Grants or other subsidized financing and might have the grades to get into the university, but, knowing reality, the number of those students is far less than the middle and upper income students.</p>
<p>So, as much as I can’t stand income redistribution, there is a lot of hypocrisy, at least here in Florida. Sure, the poor get the option to buy lottery tickets, so they retain some choice about the use of their dollars as opposed to other taxpayers who involuntarily pay into the system, but who gets all that money for college? I don’t hear middle and upper income parents turning away their Bright Futures subsidies and university scholarships financed by the taxpayers.</p>
<p>^What chesterton said.</p>
<p>People who are upset about paying too much for college HAVE choices–their state systems. They don’t all have the same program as Florida but most middle-class people should be able to swing a 4-year degree from a state school (or two years of CC followed by two years of university). </p>
<p>LOL I live in Florida and have Bright Futures. It’s great. </p>
<p>Most middle class families SHOULD be able to swing a college degree? You’re talking with loans, correct?</p>
<p>" And too many students have little idea what kind of earnings they can expect from a particular field of study, and so take on debt they may not be able to repay when the time comes.’ </p>
<p><a href=“The student loan crisis: How middle-class kids get hammered”>The student loan crisis: How middle-class kids get hammered;
<p>Really, with today’s internet, that is just patently ridiculous to say. The problem is lack of personal responsibility. The same people who live beyond their means, overborrowed for their house, rack up credit card debt on the latest electronics and cruises they can’t afford, etc., aren’t going to teach financial responsibility to their kids. My 8th grader thinks she wants to be a novelist. I made sure she understands this is a financial risk, and I told her she needs to have a backup plan in case it doesn’t work out for her. She gets it.</p>
<p>This is why the middle class cannot win. Unlike the poor, they should have been more responsible. Sigh.</p>
<p>I guess I don’t understand why high college loans are anyone’s fault but the borrower’s. Lots of people can’t afford a residential college experience. If that is the case they should purchase a different college experience. If they borrow, at preferential terms they should pay back the money. If they don’t want to incur high debt then don’t borrow and go to a local college or community college for the first few years.</p>
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<p>Most middle class families in FL should be able to swing a college degree from a state university without excessive loans. I live near FAU. FAU tuition is very affordable. If you can’t afford to send your child away to college then send them to your local state university (which with Bright Futures will cost you NOTHING), buy them a car and send them to college. Most middle class people should be able to afford that for their child without excessive loans. If you want more you have to pay for more but an education is VERY accessible to the middle class in FL.</p>
<p>"A close friend of mine was rendered nearly homeless, lost her business and she and her DD are in debt beyond what they will likely ever be able to repay due to taking out those loans, Their fault, yes, but the problem is that I see no tenable solution as it now stands. They are low enough income that they can’t make their basic needs, much less pay back any student loans. " cptofthehouse</p>
<p>First, its sad what happened. I sort of empathize. But…its also ludicrous. The big elephant in the room nobody discusses is the prestige factor. People mesmerized by prestige. (Its even more absurd when they take on debt for these for profit schools like UPhoenix and Strayer, where they are summarily rejected by employers as being second rate…another topic for another day.) People should NOT take on too much debt in either situation. But taking on reasonable debt is okay and even beneficial, as I described above. The trick is to properly and honestly assess the assets/income available, the amount of the gap required to fill, the amount of the student loans offered by the school, and the intended major. If one is heading to WallStreet and has a very good chance of getting there, then more debt clearly is permissable. But if one is going to become a teacher or continue on in graduate school, then its imperative to take on less debt. And sadly that means saying “no” to a school that accepted you but offered crummy financial aid, and instead taking a lower tier school which gave you a large scholarship or is a state school with low tuition. </p>
<p>Life is not a guarantee. We are promised equal opportunity, but that doesnt mean equal results and “opportunity” is not the same for everyone…some get into Harvard and some don’t. It is what it is. So make the best of what you have. And be happy. But do NOT take on gargantuan debt that endangers the family home and well being just so you can attend some dream school. </p>
<p>That is why going in the military or working a few years BEFORE attending college is as good a path as I can recommend for many people. You will be a better student; more mature. You will know the value of a dollar and the value of an education. And you have the benefit of paying for your own education…a priceless honor, in my view, and light years above and ahead of the spoiled brats whose parents pay for everything. </p>
<p>The bankruptcy laws were changed several years ago because of rampant abuses…people loading up debt, then declaring bankruptcy and walking away. The student loan bubble is the next bubble to burst and the feds will come in and do a bailout…who gets the bailout? I dont know. But its going to make a lot of people angry who 1) paid off their loans and 2) taxpayers who are saddled with that ever growing deficit. </p>
<p>Many economists say the student loan bubble is what fuels colleges to raise tuition. There is truth in that. In some respects college is like cellphones. We all have one because everyone has one and we feel we need it. But do we? Something to think about.</p>
<p>@acting, the US poverty rate is 15%. But 46% of US households are carrying credit card debt, averaging $15K per indebted household. That’s not the poor. That’s the middle class. Some of these families are struggling with medical bills and layoffs. Some are just irresponsible.</p>
<p>Yes, I realize that. The middle class is struggling not become part of the poor and more of them are failing every day. That’s my point. </p>
<p>OK. But I don’t understand why some of them would take on huge debts to send a child to college. There are a lot of pricey third-tier private schools out there, and I’ve never understood why the middle class would choose them over affordable state options. </p>
<p>Well, they shouldn’t. But then you have only rich and poor at these schools. That’s also a little odd.</p>
<p>It is, but that is a challenge for the schools to resolve (if they care to), not individual consumers.</p>
<p>Personally, I think it’s a little odd that those schools exist at all.</p>
<p>@Proudpatriot
Given that you live in Florida, you of all people should know that Bright Futures does not cover the entire cost of tuition. I am not discounting the affordability of Florida public colleges (never have even spoken on the topic in this thread), but to say that sending your kid off to a local state college with Bright Futures would cost nothing is a lie. </p>
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<p>Depends on what you mean by “middle class”. If you mean the definition commonly assumed on these forums (i.e. “won’t get financial aid”, meaning $230,000+ per year income), yes, they “should” be able to afford to pay for their kid’s college.</p>
<p>But if you mean the actual middle income range in the US, then they will need financial aid or scholarships to be able to afford many or most of the four year colleges in the US.</p>
<p>Wow! $230,000 per year is middle class? </p>
<p>Yup, that’s why these conversations always become such a big mess.</p>