<p>@ucb </p>
<p>I mean the actual middle income range of the US, and more specifically the part of the middle cass that has “earns too much” but “not enough”. I don’t consider the group that doesn’t get financial aid and has a $230,000+ income level to be middle class. </p>
<p>Money, you’re new to CC and the US in general right? Everyone’s middle class! :p</p>
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<p>Some self-described “middle class” people on these forums complain that they won’t get financial aid anywhere.</p>
<p><a href=“Net Price Calculator”>https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator</a> indicates that the threshold of not getting financial aid anywhere can take an income in that range. (This is one of the more convenient net price calculators in terms of trying out various “what if?” scenarios.)</p>
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<p>The actual middle income range likely gets significant financial aid at many schools, although many of those schools won’t give anywhere near enough to make them reasonably affordable unless non-considered wealth (e.g. wealthy grandparents or other relatives contributing) is included, or the family has been very frugal by US standards and has built up substantial savings and investments (The Millionaire Next door type of families).</p>
<p>Please refer to my past posts, ucb, as I am not refuting that middle class families do not receive aid. </p>
<p>Maybe they mean they can’t get financial aid anywhere their child is likely to be accepted. Harvard gives some aid to people even at what I would consider a very high income level, but not all kids are headed to Harvard.</p>
<p>Just want to add here that, in answer to the point that third tier privates would be full of only the rich and the poor if the middle class doesn’t take out loans for them, just how do you think a poor family would pay for one without loans. A tiny fraction of colleges in the country meet full need, and they are not third tier schools. A poor student may get Pell, and maybe something from a state aid program, but these wouldn’t come near most college’s tuition. after that it’s work-study and loans, lots of loans.</p>
<p>Just want to dispel the “poor people always get a free ride” myth.</p>
<p>They get gapped with big loans in the package at expensive schools. Even with aid it’s not enough. Meeting need is also an interesting concept because what a school determines you need could be a long way off from what you actually need. Like EFC… Many people will tell you that they cannot possibly afford that much. And, often they are right.</p>
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<p>So what? Are you suggesting that the taxpayers should then have a policy to address something that is a "little odd’?</p>
<p>Nope. I never said any such thing. It was just an observation. That would be a very bad idea, imho.</p>
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<p>I did not intentionally lie. When my son applied for it Bright Futures covered all tuition. I see that is no longer true. I am sorry for the mistaken information.</p>
<p>However, a middle class family living in the local area should be able to afford to send their child to FAU as a commuter student. FAU charges $199.54 per credit and Bright Futures covers $103 per credit. For 15 hours per semester that comes out to just under $3,000 per year in tuition. Middle class families should be able to swing that without the child having to take out excessive loans. Even if the child borrowed ALL of it, that does not leave the child with an excessive amount of debt. </p>
<p>An out of state, residential college experience is a luxury, not a necessity.</p>
<p>Thanks for explaining, romani and blue. That does make sense. People might reach the conclusion that the middle class are screwed because in the most prominent but ultimately tiny space, highly selective colleges that meet full need, you really are better off being poor. With the obvious flaw that being poor makes you orders of magnitude less likely to be a good applicant for such schools- even though their programs try to create a cross section of society in terms of class backgrounds, they certainly do not create a cross section in terms of mediocrity, so the most enviable people in the world, in a small way, are those that manage the impossible rise from a very rough background to Harvard etc. I sometimes wonder about them- maybe they are master storytellers rather than truly disadvantaged people in some cases.</p>
<p>I still hold that we’d be better off totally detaching family income from college opportunities by making college cost the same manageable amount for all (“free”) and using progressive taxation on the whole population and future earnings to fund it. I realize there are problems there, but would rather systematically address those problems than live with those obfuscated economics. </p>
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<p>No. You <em>might</em> be able to argue that the rich but not wealthy are in a tight squeeze there as the truly middle class (middle income) have free to almost-free costs at those well-endowed schools. If you’re not getting significant FA at a meets-full-need school it is almost certainly because you are well, well above any kind of middle income. </p>
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<p>Perhaps, but there are a few very rare cases. Then again, the odds of anyone getting in to Harvard are incredibly small so who knows. </p>
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<p>I agree with you, but then we’re getting all political and stuffs. </p>
<p>If that happens within the next five years, I will carry your children’s (or your children’s children) books everyday from preschool through their higher education. </p>
<p>(It will not happen within the next five years, b t dubbs).</p>
<p>@Proudpatriot Yes, $3,000 a year for tuition sounds mighty nice. We’re really not on opposite sides of this topic. I asked to clarify that middle class families will swing a college degree through loans and you responded by saying middle class family can afford a college degree without excessive loans. Loans are still there. </p>
<p>It’s only a matter of time for Bright Futures. A once accessible 100% tuition scholarship now offers 50% AT BEST to students with 29 ACT/ 1290 SAT score, 100 hours of community service and a 3.5 GPA. I’m just waiting to see them hit 1300 on the SAT and 30 on the ACT.</p>
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<p>Really, only on CC do we debate whether $230K a year income is “middle class.” People need a reality check. I just can’t believe how often this discussion comes up.</p>
<p>I LOVE political debates!!! Oh wait… this is NOT and has NOT become a political debate… 
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<p>You’re joking, right? Is this frenchcollegeconfidential? </p>
<p>Back to Florida, for a moment. Most school districts provide dual enrollment opportunities to their high school students and pay the entire bill for community college classes and many students are graduating with both high school diplomas and AAs. The idea was to provide opportunity to motivated students and help ease the cost of college, since students would be able to go straight from high school to their final two years of college. But, not surprisingly, many parents have figured out an even better way to milk the system: have their kids take as many dual enrollment classes as possible but come just short of an AA degree. Then, their kids qualify for Bright Futures money for another four years of college because, despite nearly two years’ worth of college credits, the students are still deemed freshmen for college admissions at a Florida university. So Florida taxpayers are subsidizing six years of college classes for degrees that should take four years. And people wonder why costs are going up? Another government do-gooder program that has turned out to be unsustainable.</p>
<p>That is why it is laughable to think that government mandating colleges all charge the same price and then taxing everyone to fund college education for all is a workable answer. Why do people deny the reality of what happens when the government gets its hands on any segment of the economy? California tried to offer free or nearly free college educations to its residents, and for a short time, it seemed to work, but, eventually, the money ran out, as it always does.</p>
<p>Are you seriously saying that people with the opportunity of completing a degree in 2 years (after high school graduation) are purposely dragging out that process to 4 years? Though I understand your hypothesis, it would make sense for those kids to come up short of an AA degree, but complete college as quickly as possible to get a real job and make real money.</p>
<p>Niqui: I guess I thought the issue was excessive loans, not any loans. I am a finance person I see debt as a tool that is not exclusively evil. My point is that middle class people can certainly obtain a college education without having to borrow large sums of money. They might have to give up the residential college experience but an education is certainly attainable. </p>
<p>There are lots of people who have to choose the plain vanilla option for lots of products/services because of money. College is not really different. Nobody feels sorry for the middle class person who struggles because they bought a BMW instead of a Chevrolet. College really isn’t any different. If a person can afford an education at a local state university but insists on borrowing a ton of money for something different that is entirely their problem.</p>