<p>So, DD is accepted to (in order of approximately descending probability of actually going there):</p>
<p>UCB
UCLA (to the College of Letters and Sciences; didn't audition)
Princeton
Brown
UCSD
UMich (to LSA; didn't audition)
UChicago (dream school, but financially unrealistic, unless they agree to adjust finaid)
Pomona College</p>
<p>... and some safeties, which, I hope, might as well stay out of the picture.;)</p>
<p>She is considering to double-major or minor in music (her other strong interests are foreign languages and linguistics). Her main musical interests are piano, choir, music theory and conducting.</p>
<p>Could anyone "rank" the schools listed above by the strength of their music programs in the mentioned areas and give us some useful comments regarding such "musical" features of each school as:</p>
<p>1) the quality and accessibility of piano lessons (subsidized or not?) for music majors, minors or non-majors?
2) the same (q. and a.) of the practice rooms?
3) the choral program?
4) performing opportunities?
5) doability of double-majoring in music and other field?</p>
<p>UC Berkeley, at the top of your list, offers a huge number of language courses, including a strong slavic department; it has a top-ranked music department, focused on music history. Their most prominent professor is Richard Taruskin, who specializes in Russian music and wrote the monumental Oxford History of Western Music. They do not have a theory department, but do teach musicianship courses (harmony, aural skills); there is an ethnomusicology program as well, part of the same department. There is not a performance major, but performance is part of the general music major and there is a chorus and orchestra which perform regularly in an attractive (and recently renovated) music hall; a new music library with a world-class collection of scores and texts; there are excellent piano teachers in the area, for private study. The music department does subsidize lessons but only a fraction of the actual cost. It would be possible to double major; there is no obstacle, as both music and languages are in the College of Letters and Sciences. The Bay Area is great for music -- MTT at Davies, lots of early music, ethnic music. There are practice rooms. The music department is in a set of buildings in a lovely part of campus.<br>
UCLA is presently divided between specialties and divisions, but that may change with the infusion of money from Herb Alpert. Performance and ethno (which includes jazz performance) is in the College of Arts and Architecture; music history is part of the College of Letters and Sciences. They are separate in terms of admissions and even Regent's Scholarships. It might be tricky trying to transfer into the College of Art and Architecture if admitted into the College of Letters and Sciences and doing a double degree might be a challenge. The performance degree is a B.A., not a B.Mus. The music programs are housed in one building, Schoenberg hall, named for the composer, who lived in L.A. An attractive facility, with practice rooms in the basement. L.A. is a vibrant city for music; new conductor coming to the LA Phil. Colburn and USC are located in the area.</p>
<p>Princeton has an excellent music department, nice facilities (including practice rooms); it offers subsidized lessons from a list of adjunct faculty); it offers a "certificate" program in music in the junior and senior years, which is like a minor. There are performance opportunities and some talented musicians there, but the academic demands are substantial, including junior and senior theses ("the quintessential Princeton experience"), so it would be tough to double major. Some students apparently take lessons in NY, but it would be a challenge to do so on a weekly basis, and costly too.</p>
<p>About performance opportunities at Berkeley, one of the nicest programs is the Noon Concert Series, where students selected by audition can perform to an enthusiastic audience of students, faculty, and locals. There is also a concerto competition, with opportunities to perform with the orchestra.</p>
<p>Princeton is on a mission to amplify its music and arts areas. They are very supportive of their musicians. Combine that with the location and access to a world arena for performance. You cannot beat the education. In a heart beat I would pick Princeton.</p>
<p>Wow, what a fabulous list of decisions! Congrats to you and your daughter.</p>
<p>i have no real experience with any of the schools but some hearsay:</p>
<p>Regarding Princeton, a neighbor's son is graduating from Princeton this year, biology, I think. He's had many, many opportunities for singing and doing theater in his years--choral, solo, a cappella, opera chorus (his parents are always going to Princeton to hear him sing). A summer intern in my husband's architecture firm went to Princeton to study architecture but had such a wonderful time singing opera that she's considered doing so in grad school--this was a few years ago, so I'm fuzzy on the details. I have another friend who with her daughter has done serious research into colleges that allow double major or at least serious focus on both music and linguistics and Princeton is at the top of her list (her D is a 2013 applicant).</p>
<p>My son applied to Brown (rejected) and sang for choral director and rehearsed with choir. Choral director is a great guy (told son he'd twist arms to get him in, but son's GPA was unsurmountable obstacle, not to mention the competition was fierce!) and the choir travels and sings good repertoire, appeared to be a very friendly atmosphere. I don't know about the rest of the music program.</p>
<p>I would not choose Brown for music, but there is a very vibrant and supportive music community at Princeton (not to mention the proximity to Philly and NYC for teachers, performances, etc). We know a boy who is choosing Princeton over lots of other great choices, including Harvard.</p>
<p>Another vote for Princeton here (although I must confess to not knowing a whole lot about some of the others.) I sang with the Princeton Early Music Ensemble years ago, not having been a student there but rather as a friend of the director. I have another good friend who was a composition major there. The students, facilities and teachers there are what you would expect of a top Ivy. Add in the proximity to both Philadelphia and New York and you have some fabulous opportunities.</p>
<p>I recall waiting for rehearsal to start one day when our normal room was occupied by a soprano who was warming up. One of our tenors stood listening next to the closed door and said something like, "She's good, but obviously a Kathleen Battle wannabe." Five minutes later, Ms. Battle herself emerges from the room and the look on this guy's face was priceless. She was probably wondering why everyone else started laughing when she walked out of the room.</p>
<p>Congratulations myau! Is your DD able to attend the admitted students weekend for Princeton? I concur with those who recommend it for the great music programs and opportunities, but I also think because her interests are so specific, she should get a chance to find out just how much she can actually do at P. Our S is about the graduate, and we've loved attending his concerts, and have seen some outstanding students there having great music opportunities, including conducting, but many also were in the orchestra, not pianists or singers. Many kids take lessons in New York of Philadelphia (Julliard, Curtis, Temple, Manhattan School) but again, they usually had worked that out in advance (or were already studying with those teachers in high school) so it would be unwise to simply show up at Princeton in Sept. and expect to have a teacher from Julliard. Each year several seniors go on to top conservatories for grad school, which says a lot about the serious level, but again, it will be very important to know in advance what your D will actually be able to do once she gets there.
As for UMich LSA, I would cross that off your list. Michigan has a fabulous conservatory, but if your d did not audition, that means she will be unlikely to be part of the music programs, and will only have grad students as teachers.
good luck, and congratulations to your daughter!</p>
<p>If Princeton is a strong option, be sure to visit -- some kids like it, some find the eating clubs culture off-putting; it is a beautiful school, with lots of money, but its allure is generally greater on the east coast than in California, where the UC's are highly valued and a great bargain.<br>
Also, if she loves Chicago, it also has a great music department and a lot of music opportunities. There is a performance faculty, including on piano, but like the rest of the schools, apart from Michigan, it is an academic music department, with a highly ranked graduate department. Cosmos, a frequent poster here, goes there and seems to be thriving.</p>
<p>Cal: We know a lot of great musicians who go to Cal. There are great teacher on faculty and in SF (a short BART ride away). The Bay Area has an extremely active music scene...there are music performances every weekend.
UCLA: This school, like UMich, has a separate music school. Some ensembles and teachers are restricted to the music majors (who were admitted to the music school). UMich may have a general music major for non-music school students, but I'm not sure.
Pomona: We know several amazing musicians who go to Pomona. One of them is a linguistics major and loves the language tables (they speak different languages at each table). There are music ensemble, but I'm not sure about the choral scene.
UChi: Cosmos is the expert!
Brown: I'm a Brown fan. We met with some music teachers are were very impressed. Itzhak Perlman's daughter went to Brown, if I'm not mistaken, and she is a professional pianist...so they must have some pretty good teachers. I got the impression that there is a strong arts scene there.
Princeton: The conductor makes some very interesting and exciting repertoire choices. He said a few kids go into NYC for lessons (not many). There are teachers who come to Princeton. They have great musicologists.
I would definitely visit colleges that are real options. If D is a Californian, I think going to Pomona is wise, and maybe Princeton and Brown.
Congratulations!</p>
<p>After acceptance at Brown, Son took one look at the music building/ practice rooms and said, " next". At Chicago, which he did transfer into[ and out of, but that's another story] you find private piano teachers in the surrounding Chicago community. There is no Music Performance majors or minors at Chicago. The music degree program is academic based- music theory/ history, but the college does encourage students to participate in performance opportunites through out the year. The pianos in the music practice rooms are not of great quality or quantity. Chicago is very intense academically, much more so than most colleges, including Princeton. [ There was an article in the Princeton student newspaper a few years back comparing how the students at Princeton had it "easy" compared to those at Chicago.] The "core" at Chicago takes up essentially a students first 2 years of college. A final word of advise- She needs to be eager to work really hard, and needs to not be bothered by grade deflation to thrive at Chicago. Given the choices she has, I'd go with Princeton . At the UC's she will have to fight to get into lower division classes that she needs or graduation. On the other hand, the UC's are closer to home, and that does seem to count for a lot for Calif kids.</p>
<p>My kid went to Cal, majored in music, was in the orchestra, so I am quite familiar with the department. The music courses are not particularly large and there is no problem getting into classes; similarly, language courses are not large or difficult to get into. [That is not true of science courses, which can be huge and "impacted."] Undergraduates in the music department do very well in terms of graduate school admissions; a few go on to performance MM programs. It is not hard to graduate in 4 years. My kid loved it.</p>
<p>mamenyu, that's what I heard about UCs (particularly, Berkeley) - the constant struggle and crazy competition for "impacted" (or just "practical" ;)) majors and much less intense, more relaxed and nurturing environment for "impractical" arts and humanities majors. </p>
<p>As an overprotective parent;), I'd like to have my baby as close to home as possible (and that part of my heart votes for Berkeley), as a frugal parent I'd like to find a bargain (which points in the direction of Berkeley, too), but I'd also like her to have the best college experience possible and the best future opportunities. Knowing that, on average, the latter is easier achieved in Princeton than in Berkeley (and many Californian kids actually consider going to Berkely "uncool" and being some kind of "sacrifice" :(), I wonder how much does it really apply to my D's case, who has untypical ("impractical") interests. Would going to more far-away and expensive school really worth the hassle for her?</p>
<p>At Chicago, which he did transfer into[ and out of, but that's another story</p>
<br>
<p>Wow, as far as I remember, your son was happy at UChicago! Did it change? (Sorry for asking, I need some consolation stories for my daughter who is still bitter about her unability to go there ;)).</p>
<p>You should check into the Princeton policy about private teachers for music majors. It was my understanding that a few years ago, Princeton paid the costs of private lessons outside the school: 100% of music majors, 50% of music minors. We did not explore thoroughly at the time, and the policy may have changed. But if your child is considering piano lessons at a conservatory level teacher in either Philly or NY, that could be a huge chunk of change. </p>
<p>You might also want to email or PM Cornfed, who I haven't seen on CC for a while, whose very talented D (voice) is a freshman at Princeton.</p>
<p>Hello Myau, Since you are leaning towards Princeton, I really suggest that your D try to get to the accepted students weekend, even though it may be an expensive proposition. There are so many variables, and as others have pointed out, there's a Princeton culture that doesn't suit everyone; if she can spend a little time on campus, talking with musicians, singers, etc. and learning first hand about the issues of teachers / lessons, and juggling big academic schedules with extra curriculars, it will be well worth the trip, and I think her decision (and yours!) will be much clearer. We know musicians who love Princeton and have thrived there, and others who have been very unhappy; but our experience generally is that spending a little time on campus makes a big difference.</p>
<p>My understanding was that Princeton paid for teachers on their adjunct list, not for Juilliard or Curtis teachers -- the price would be very different.
My kid wanted to go to Cal, loved his experience, and had no regrets; in graduate school at an Ivy, he looked back on his Cal experience as one he would repeat -- he liked the public school culture and loved Berkeley, which is an easy place to live. He would not have considered Princeton because of the eating clubs. But he had friends who went to Princeton and liked it (these were musicians -- they thought the orchestra was ok but not great). Because Cal is so large and has so many students with musical training, there is a large musical community. If price is no consideration, and your daughter likes Princeton or U of C, then that is a different story, but there is no reason to think that going to Cal, especially with a Regent's scholarship, is anything to think is uncool. It is also prestigious -- she will not be in any way disadvantaged in terms of future opportunities. She might visit Cal Day on April 12 or try an overnight visit. Go Bears! In the interests of full disclosure, my younger kid got into Cal and Princeton among other options and went to...Oberlin -- and is happy as a clam.</p>