<p>My D is a high school Junior and, like all of you, were anxiously looking for just the right college "fit". I was hoping you might have some suggestions. </p>
<p>Indiana University is close to us, and the Jacobs school of music is great...but my D REALLY seems to want a "big city" college, AND some "history".</p>
<p>She loves the idea of an education at Oxford or Cambridge...or an Ivy League School. We've started visiting, to find that "fit". But one of the more promising to combine her love of music and philosophy was Columbia and it really didn't feel right. </p>
<p>She did like NYU. But DARN it's so expensive.</p>
<p>Anyplace else any of you could recommend? Does anyone know enough about the music programs at other Ivies to comment on them? She's primarily a french horn player (will have 7 years when she graduates). Has 4 years piano, a couple years of trumpet...but has gotten VERY heavily into voice and seems to like that best. Likes composing, loves conducting. Likes classical voice. LOVES musical theatre. She's really all over the map. </p>
<p>But...is also quite into academics (2210 SAT as a Junior)...and really wants to study philosophy/psych, etc. I'm hoping she can major/minor and/or double major and we're looking for that perfect school for her. </p>
<p>Does this sound like any school that YOU know of? What is a good fit for a student with these interests?</p>
<p>Have you looked at Northwestern? could double major WCAS and Bienen (there's a current new ED acceptee doing piano and WCAS who has been posting on the NU site).</p>
<p>Friend's son is at Harvard majoring in music--he's interested in conducting. Having a great time/education/experience and I'm sure he would recommend it. There's also the opportunity to take lessons at NEC, I think? In my humble opinion as a listener, Yale has the absolute best choral music of the Ivies. (The School of Music is a graduate program, but there have been undergraduate singers even in the most select choirs conducted by SOM/ISM--Institute of Sacred Music--conductors.)</p>
<p>Columbia has fantastic composition, or so I have heard. But if it feels weird, that won't work.</p>
<p>My son (currently at NU) looked very seriously into Cambridge (John's and King's) and interviewed/sang for the music directors, both encouraging of his singing ability but one was quite dubious of his academic qualifications. In the end, he decided not to apply because when you read music--or any subject--at Oxbridge, that's pretty much all you do for three years. He wouldn't have been able to take languages or other subjects unless they directly related to music. That's not to say he would have been accepted! I doubt it, actually, although those two colleges--king's and john's--treat choral scholars a bit like athletes, giving them an edge if academics don't quite match up. But it is much harder for femaies who want to be choral scholars, he hears. (King's and John's are male choirs and are world-famous, and they have to keep up the tradition, what what.) We have known two girls in the last few years with 4.7-plus GPAs and super SATs/APs who did not get in to Oxbridge. But, that's not to say your daughter could not. You never know! The one-subject only is off-putting. Much luck to you and her!</p>
<p>If she is interested in performance and academics some of the best options for successfully doing both are Oberlin, Michigan, UCLA, Bard; mostly academic but also performance opportunities (depending on self-motivation), at the top end, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, UC Berkeley, Columbia. USC and Johns Hopkins/Peabody, Stony Brook, and UCSB are also possibilities. For someone with very strong academic stats, strong music can be a boost for admissions.
This list is not exhaustive...but if you go through the older threads here, you will see that these names recur.</p>
<p>Oxford also has choral scholars and organ scholars -- apparently they audition and are awarded the scholarships long before the interview process in December, and the interviewers may or may not know that they are choral scholars and they may or may not get into any of the colleges. The Oxford/Cambridge degrees are 3 year programs and, as noted, highly specialized; but if you do music, it is an academic degree, not a performance degree. For performance, you would go to what they call a "conservatoire." St. Andrews in Scotland is a 4 year program, and is a little more flexible -- in England, by the time they get the University, the students have already specialized. They like having American students, for diversity and also because they pay a higher tuition.</p>
<p>There are a lot of threads here that you should browse. Make sure you understand the music degrees offered at different schools and what they mean. Is there a performance focus? Can you really double major? For my son (interested in composition), the biggest choice was whether to pursue a B.M or a B.A. You might want to think about that carefully before you visit a lot of schools.</p>
<p>These are fabulous answers. Thanks so much. Yes, Northwestern has been "on our radar" since she was invited their in 6th grade for excelling in their Talent Search for Youth academically. She just seems to want to lean toward "history" (east coast, first colleges, and she loves Europe). Of course...I am a single Mom and affording any of these will be TOUGH! But the three year Europe programs help offset the horrid exchange rate at least. (though I doubt I'll EVER get her home!).</p>
<p>I'm trying to keep her close to home...Indiana University fits about all her needs, but again...just doesn't seem right to her. She's quite..."worldly". And it IS hard to decide...classical versus modern/musical theatre...voice versus instrumental...academia first and SOME music or Music first with SOME academia...which brings up the BA, BM, BFA type questions. That's why I'm looking for SO much data. THANKS for all the info on the other schools. It's invaluable.</p>
<p>Well, there are lots of schools out there that would probably be interesting to her. People have already mentioned many; here are a few more.</p>
<p>Maybe Barnard has a better 'feel' to it for your daughter? It's also easier to get into than Columbia but shares access to the same music courses/ensembles. Also, Barnard has a lesson-exchange program with MSM that a small number of students actually qualify for each year (as opposed to Columbia's lesson-ex with Juilliard, which kind of exists more on paper than in the real world).</p>
<p>Smith, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Skidmore all have that East Coast prestige look and feel, and they each, in their own way, welcome and recruit musicians (although none of them have a real performance degree). </p>
<p>Along the lines of Northwestern, Vanderbilt also offers the opportunity to complete both a conservatory and a liberal arts degree, it has a lot of history and tradition (although not in the northeast).</p>
<p>I know a student who was recruited by the orchestra at UPenn because she was a french horn player. UPenn has a surprisingly good music department, too. I think Northwestern is better for music and has very rigorous academics. No easy A's there, and most students are very serious. I also think Barnard is a great idea. It sounds like she could get into the program with MSM; Columbia and Barnard are very "Ivy" but with the sophistication of New York City. In my days at Columbia I knew many Barnard women and they were a very smart lot. You are two blocks down from MSM, and there is a constant exposure to great music between that and Riverside Church also next door to Barnard.</p>
<p>Some of these options can be costly -- Harvard/NEC (or Harvard plus lessons on your own with an NEC teacher) will cost Harvard tuition + $6,000; Columbia - Juilliard has revised their exchange program and now includes a cost for lessons. Yale lessons are generally with graduate students; the undergraduate music degree is academic, not performance. Lots of talented musicians there, but mostly amateur level compared to conservatories, because of academic time commitments. Oberlin can be generous with merit scholarships in the Conservatory, which is something to consider. They also have an early review program, nonbinding, which can take some pressure off (or add some...) Another possibility is McGill, in Montreal, which has a strong conservatory and new facility -- it's 3 years for some Canadian students but 4 for Americans.</p>
<p>Another point regarding Oxford/Cambridge: the interviewers of prospective music students expect a high level of music theory and analysis -- they give students a piece and expect them to be able to analyze it on the spot -- they also give students a scholarly article and expect them to discuss it knowledgeably. The students take lectures with faculty from the music department but their tutorials are generally within their own colleges (some of the top colleges offering music are Merton, Magdalen, Univ, and Worcester).</p>
<p>I saw that someone mentioned Vanderbilt - I don't know much about the depth of the music program but I know the liberal arts education is very strong and I believe you can combine both. Although quite expensive, they do have a wonderful and I hear quite generous financial aid program, if you qualify. One nice perk - the brand new freshman dorms (the Commons) have music practice rooms and the freshman "living area" (food, exercise, etc, ) has a baby grand!! The entire new freshman Commons are AMAZING! Not in the northeast, but Nashville is quite a fun city and just full of live music.</p>
<p>Read the information on the Peabody site, regarding music major, double degree, double major-very helpful and informative. Northwestern, Oberlin, JHU/Peabody, Barnard are obvious choices -also consider BU-strong in voice and can elect a second major after sophomore year, UR/Eastman-double major-must be accepted at both, as well as CIM/CASE and CMU-all must be accepted into two separate programs. Skidmore a good option with merit scholarship for music, but you can also check Williams and Wesleyan.</p>
<p>It seems that your D is very undecided. Is she mainly interested in academics? Does she want a music degree and if so in what discipline?</p>
<p>My D had all sorts of doubts. Throughout junior year she participated in a Saturday music program, always came home with a smile, but was certain that she did not want to pursue music in college. A month long summer program at Eastman convinced her that music had to remain a part of her life and education. She is now in year 4 of a 5 year double degree program. She is still convinced she does not want to have a career in performance or music education, but somehow music will remain a part of her life and will influence her career choices. I highly recommend sending your D to a college based summer program. It will help her to see her future choices.</p>
<p>Aaaargh! I knew I came to the right place. These are great. It's so great to get inside insight. Vanderbilt...hmmm...my daughter is awfully cosmopolitan and Nashville has never been our "thing". Not so much THAT kind of music. She really wants to be in NYC to be close to theatre. I hadn't thought of Barnard-but I think she'd rather die than go to a school with no men (Mom might be happy thought!). We visited NYU (LOVED it), Columbia (she had a cousin go to law school there, it just wasn't right, dunno why), and Juilliard (LOVED it - but I'm personally against the conservatory education...at least for her. She's VERY musical, but not ALL music). I need her to have a strong academic "back up" education. As for Oxford - that's actually good as far as the expectations. Her fortes are being analytical, and her knowledge of music. She's a good performer, but doesn't practice enough to be AMAZING. But she KNOWS music. And she took A/P theory as a sophomore. She's in voice and horn lessons and wants to start cello! But I'm making her take a slightly more academic course load instead. She's already "light" on some things (like foreign languages...she'll have only 3 years instead of 4) due to her music classes. And she LOVES the "tutorial" aspect of Oxford. (as opposed to lectures). </p>
<p>edad: Yes, definitely very undecided. That's why I'm asking all this. Trying to help her thresh it out. It's a blessing AND a curse to have many interests and options. And most kids this age ARE undecided (except those select few). I'm glad she's well rounded, but...it can be difficult. She LOVES music. But I'm asking her - can you get a JOB in it? Most academic degrees...it doesn't matter as much what degree you have, most kids change their majors AND end up not working in their field. But, say, a conservatory education...while you MAY be more apt to get a job in the field (of music), doesn't give you much to fall back on if you don't. </p>
<p>This next year is for learning, researching, thinking, deciding. So I'm asking questions so that I can help answer her questions of me. </p>
<p>So many colleges. So little time.<br>
THANKS again all!</p>
<p>
[quote]
a conservatory education...while you MAY be more apt to get a job in the field (of music), doesn't give you much to fall back on if you don't.
<p>Singing groups at Harvard are fantastic; instrumental groups less so (and there are so many good musicians at Harvard, I have no idea why, except that most of them seem not to join the orchestra, wind ensemble, jazz ensembles). Students must set up their own private lessons, and there is no support from the faculty in this regard (no performance teachers at all). There are plenty of excellent private teachers in Boston, but there will be no hand holding on Harvard's end regarding scheduling, networking, etc. Even kids who are supported through the Harvard/NEC program (and this is a very exclusive club) need quite a lot of independence.</p>
<p>There's also Tufts/NEC. Tufts music (without NEC) seems to be quite nice for non-performance level or seeking musicians. They have a snazzy new building too.</p>
<p>Don't forget about Princeton, which attracts some very fine musicians too.</p>
<p>The Ivy programs are all BA based, are in the academic music disciplines and the lesson policies vary widely. From an instrumental standpoint, you will find a number of conservatory level ability students studying non-music academic disciplines; a few will go into performance based MM programs immediately after undergrad. More than a handful are already actively performing professionally.</p>
<p>I would have to classify Yale as the most rounded in terms of both large and small ensembles. Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Penn can vary considerably in terms of specific instrumental talent and mix. You will find high quality small ensembles at all of them. I've heard Cornell, Darthmouth and Brown classified as acceptable, marginal, and dismal from a number of varied sources. Instrumental mix and peer quality can vary widely depending on the specific focus one is looking for.</p>
<p>A lot will depend on your d's level of talent and experience, and whether music is her prime mover, or if she is content with an avocational pursuit.</p>
<p>if D didn't like either columbia or nyu, she might want to look into Wesleyan. It's in a small, blue-collar New England city, sort of a cross between Northampton (MA) and Brooklyn (NY), if you can imagine such a thing. The school is a veritable petrie dish of musical groups, ranging from indie rock to Javanese gamelan. Wesleyan is one of the Little Three (along with Amherst and Williams) though not as preppy as its brethren.</p>