S had ideas of what schools he liked based somewhat on their sound on YouTube or the reputation for the town in being a breeding ground for music (like, hey, Vulpeck came out of that area). I think the overall understanding we had was something notionally like:
Ps = Ed + Tq + Pt - Db + L
Ps = Probability of Success
Ed = Effort and Drive (from S)
Tq = Training Quality
Pt = Practice/Playing Time
Db = Debt
L = Luck, because you always have to sprinkle that in
The Pt component has been especially important for S. He does prepare a daily plan each night in an attempt to use his time as best he can. The short walk from dorm to class is helpful (compare UNT or Frost to say Michigan). The vegan and vegetarian option in the dorm and in the all-vegan dorm down the street help, too. The fact that his wing of the building has the practice rooms, and he can play in his room, they all help the āPtā component. Academic load can also harm Pt, but maybe help Tq in another way. So, S is contributing to Ed whatever he can, and Tq and Db are as good as we could fit in the equation. Always open to some L.
SpartanDrew, if your daughter has migraines she should register with the Office of Disabilities. She might be able to get preference for housing with a kitchen, if an MD will document the link between migraines and diet. Also, we found that some schools will release a student with special dietary needs from the required meal plan, though I think there are social costs to that. Is she vegetarian or vegan?
Good suggestion on looking at course descriptions and the minutiae on websites in general.
As ScreenName 48105 wrote, students seem to really refine their needs/wants as they experience more programs. This applies to non-music majors as well. They may start out with a list of 10 āmust-havesā and then maybe 4 boil to the surface repeatedly as they find that they are evaluating colleges based largely on those 4 priorities - the other needs/wants (maybe sports, distance from home, maybe weather, etc.) fall away. Theyāll still be in the final pros/cons list, but the top 4 will heavily direct the decision. Iāll add, too, that there will be many things that your student will not learn about her college/program until she gets there and sheāll need to be flexible. Every college/program has some wonderful hidden aspects and some awful stuff. Some will be new opportunities (try fencing and Southeast Asian dance) and some will be a drag (multiple rehearsals mean weekends are often not relaxing). Daily life should receive some consideration, too, and this may encompass proximity to practice rooms or veggie dining options. Music majors take 9-10 courses (vs 4-5 for most other majors) and can be in classes from 9-5 on several days a week. D2 found that she could not always get to a cafeteria to eat lunch but she has a stomach issue that requires food every few hours. She had to lobby to get certain class times to allow her enough time to eat. She packs a lunch this year. She also likes her college town and heads to Whole Paycheck once a week to get a better variety of fruits/veggies than are available on campus. So she has had to adjust her experience to make it work better for her.
A lot of great comments above. Iāll add a few more.
My D didnāt know which school or which program (MT, VP or acting) in the fall. Now that seems natural but at the time it was annoying. Up to Feb, my D was really gunning for MT at an LAC. Two primary things influenced her decision.
1.) Attention from teachers/programs after the audition. The schools that were contacting her shot to the top very quickly. Some of these contacts were pretty basic but they were something. This is an issue in performance programs bc poor Lawrence University that keeps to a very disciplined schedule of communication and follow-ups (and were very professional in explaining why) was at a disadvantage compared to schools who were contacting my D early in her case (right or wrong). So keep that in mind. It can sway opinions of some students. My D wanted to go where she felt wanted. I donāt know if these early contacts are always good or badā¦and I wonder if schools understand itās an emotional time so find it advantageousā¦but the contacts do feel good when you are desperate in late Feb. It influenced my Dās decisions and pushed her towards the āfinish lineā. Regardless of the early responses (if any, not all schools do it), the āfinal feedbackā from schools (acceptances, teacher and MONEY) will undoubtably influence your Dās decisionā¦as is natural to the process.
2.) Time on different campuses. My D loved the LACs at first. She felt welcomed, special and cared for. But on returning to one the second time, she knew the whole layout of the campus after one visit and the āweāll take care of youā talk started to feel suffocating (this is an opinionā¦other kids love this). So getting on different campuses a few times really can make a difference. And not to go into too much detail but my D is bi-racial and looks Asian. 3% Asian at an LAC in a class of 300 (meaning 9 kids) as opposed to 5% at big U in a class of 7000 (meaning 350 kids) started to make a differenceā¦as being the token diversity kid gets old (my D has little interest in this role). She didnāt think about this at firstā¦but over time, it became an issue as the campuses and communities started looking homogeneous. Most had NO Asian grocer (her dad is the cook at our house). And there were fairly limited food choices at campus or in the community (that started to feel limiting instead of expansive for her college years). Even though IU was in the mid-west, it had TWO Asian grocers and some good ethnic food restaurantsā¦plus opera, ballet, MT, theater and national shows. All of this matter in Marchā¦not Oct!! I was glad we had some variety in choice at that point. In Oct, IU was low on her list. But funny things can happen (or not) during auditions.
As far along as you are, thereās still a long way to go. In the end sheāll pick a school. Just give her a wide berth until then.
Yes, @bridgenail ! Our experience was so much the same, albeit with different outcomes!! (Absent the bi-racial element.) D was also still much on the fence regarding MT or Opera focus in the Fall of audition year. And, like for you, some concrete things helped focus that decision; notably the attention she was receiving from programs with an Opera focus, but especially her own summer experience (before her Senior year). Also, we were learning she probably would have to āchooseā for a competitive program (even if this meant focusing on one and allowing time and energy for the other during undergrad, which is possible at a very few top schools).
I 100% agree that programs that showed an early, and especially passionate interest, quickly rose to the top!!! I do think this is a very good indicator of how well you fit into a program after a live auditionā¦That reciprocal passion, student for program/school AND school/program for student is so important. These expressions of interest can be subtle, because programs need to be careful not to promise anything, but they are so welcome in those dreary, late Winter, sometimes hopeless months. I think Lawrence University may have learned that lesson since your Dās time, @bridgenail , perhaps because they were losing some great students (like your D); my D received a carefully worded but very encouraging text (so cool, lol!) from the Conservatory expressing how impressed the faculty were about her audition within 24 hours of audition day. No promises, no sure-things, but SO welcome that week! And Lawrence continued to be one of the MOST enthusiastic communicators throughout the process (I thought the Conservatory Director of Admissions there was great and pulled out all the stops). In the end, my Dās top 3 each offered some sort of official/non-official passionate feedback pretty much right away; I think this contributed to them being the āTop 3ā! I donāt know if this is the usual experience for most students, and D certainly received admission offers from programs that did not offer any early sign of personal interest, but I do think it made a difference in how she felt about the programs. Everyone wants to end up somewhere they are wanted and valued!
For this yearās auditioners and families, yāall have so much time, still! Every experience along the way will help shape your childās decisions. There will be disappointments, and they will help guide choices. There will be surprises! Itās okay; some will be good and some will beā¦less good. Have faith that if you throw yourselves fully into this crazy process, your child will find a good place for them to grow, thrive and learn.
Interesting about Lawrence. I remember a little ālectureā about not expecting any communication from them before they mailed out their offers (of course you never know if thatās true or not but they seemed quite strict and fair about it so I bought it). We did have some warm and fuzzies the evening after her audition at a concert. But it was very general so I couldnāt really tell if they were just being polite. She did in the end get a nice offer and after declining it she got an offer to enroll the next year without an audition if her first choice didnāt work outā¦so I think they were serious. But by the time she got the acceptance and any real communication from them, she was already sold on another school. It sounds like they are getting more aggressive. I do remember them as the last acceptance via snail mail.
And as you say, not all schools nor teachers do this. It depends. So itās not something to expectā¦but when any communication happens in those dreary days it sure is nice.
Re: attention from teachers/programs after the audition. While I appreciate that itās flattering, encouraging, ego-boosting and incredibly welcome during a very intense time, I do caution against allowing that to cloud judgement too much. In our experience, certain schools are proactive about reaching out personally post-audition, while others (including the program my student ultimately chose to attend) are ācooler.ā However, I donāt think itās at all an indication of the applicant being more genuinely wanted and valued at the former; I think itās really more about a programās calculated approach to marketing and recruiting.
I canāt say I have heard it being the mainstream where extra interest was expressed by faculty and then the applicant was turned away. Our S did have this ācoolerā vibe from UNT, where he is now attending, so that worked out alright. But the warmer follow-up from Frost, Michigan and William Paterson were quite welcomed and turned out to not be phony. At least that is a small sample of recent jazz auditioning.
It is funny, though Iām sure someone may have a silent cow about it, but at the end of Sā audition at UNT, he asked the ājudgeā what he thought about the performance.
Oh, trueāI expect that interest is an indication of ultimately being accepted, as I canāt imagine any program would bother if they had already decided against someoneā¦I was thinking more along the lines of whether itās worth taking that expressed interest into consideration (in deciding among oneās acceptances) as being more meaningful in indicating how much an accepted applicant was actually wanted or valued at each institution. Mine is now at one of the ācoolerā schools and couldnāt feel more welcome or valued! When he followed up with the two āwarmerā folks to thank them for the offer but let them know heād ultimately decided to go elsewhereā¦one replied something very gracious along the lines of sorry to hear it, was looking forward to working with you but wish you much success, and the seemingly warmest and most communicative of all up until that point didnāt respond at all.
Since I started this issue of early responses, Iāll add that I had intended to present it as āa double-edged swordā to the OP. I didnāt want it to appear black or white or good or bad. Sometimes the early responses can be informative and valuable. They can increase confidence and the ability to audition well. But then they can have a negative side too in some cases. Thoughts like, āWhy doesnāt school A want me like school B?ā This may not be true. Itās just too early for school A. Or āwhy do some people get early responses and I donāt. I must be no good.ā That can hurt future auditions when a kid is doing just fineā¦but they hear others got communication and doubt themselves. Or they could overlook a good school in the rush to be ādoneā. In the end you need to audition and WAIT until the end of the process and all acceptances and money are on the table.
It is easy to tell people the BEST thing to do. But Iāll be honestā¦the early, positives out of one school became a freight train that took my D away for 4 years. Still I think it was the right train. And then others end up on the super slow train of no decision until the last minute. I donāt think one is right or wrongā¦or one kid more or less wanted. Life is messyā¦and college dorm rooms even messier!
Itās good to remember that schools have their own agendas, often benign ones, but they arenāt being kind when they send encouraging messages. Maybe they need a tuba that year, or maybe they think a student will add to their reputation, or maybe they need the money, or maybe there is some other x factor.
I personally appreciated that my musician kid was unaffected by any enthusiasm a school showed her. And yes she accumulated info over the year and decided April 30!
@compmom I am genuinely curious as to why you feel a program isnāt being kind by sending encouraging messages? Of course, I assume that whatever message is being sent is ātrue and honestā (and obviously not a promise of admission or scholarship-unless it is an actual offer of admission or scholarship). I know this certainly does not happen in every case and is not, as @bridgenail said, a āblack and white or good or badā issue! But truly, colleges track interest as one way of choosing between similar students, and if Iām being honest, I do think that my D ātracked interestā (not scientifically, of course), and that a personal interest in her and her talents absolutely DID sway and impact her decision making (though it was not the #1 deciding factor)? I donāt see this as a bad thing at all. And in Dās case, that āearly interestā absolutely translated into offers of acceptance and money in every case. Certainly, we counted zero chickens until they were hatched, figuratively speaking! And D didnāt make any decisions until all the offers were inā¦ I want to be careful to express that I know that this doesnāt always happen and it isnāt the culture in all programs and disciplines, and shouldnāt be expected! But this is a competitive business, and that goes both ways; students show the measure of their interest by spending their time and resources applying and traveling to auditions, and with emails and other communications, as well as with requests for trial lessons, sitting in on rehearsals and classes, etc. Why shouldnāt a program or teacher express their delight and excitement in a student? My D viewed these communications as āoh, wow! Maybe I have a chance!ā And at that point in the process, we were honestly so relieved to have a bit of hope, lol! I would think that the biggest danger of this kind of communication would be some kind of misunderstanding by the student/family. We went in with our eyes wide open, I think, to the fickleness of this career path (maybe more than many because vocalists deal with image and casting parameters that have nothing to do with āfairā or even ābetterā). As @YertleTurtle says, this is a calculated approach to marketing and recruiting, and as such, it does send the message that you are being recruited and valued. Itās not the only way, but I think that carefully done, it can be valuable to both potential student and program.
I have been kind of on-the-fence on this topic, not sure how to size it up exactly, but @dramasopranomom just gave me the kick I needed. I can say that the amount of merit dollars (not final cost) offered did track very close to the amount of enthusiastic follow-up.
Our studentās actual merit dollars were astoundingly similar across the āwarmā and ācoolā schools (though each was broken up somewhat differently between academics and talent).
Thanks for the welcome @GoForth ā I do recall that exchange. (Creepy as it seems when I type it out, Iāve actually been lurking on the music forum quite regularly for more than a year now. Itās what got me through the parent-angst of the prescreen/audition/waiting game without letting it show [too much] to my son! Didnāt seem like I had much expertise to share, and Iām relatively private and know how small and tight the music world can be, especially when you narrow by genreā¦but now that heās happily off to college, itās nice to feel like I might have some small bit of knowledge/experience to contribute here and there to give back!)
Part of the reason I hang around is maybe there is an aspiring jazz bassist and I can dump all my opinions on them, but, alas, I havenāt spotted one for this season. S also picked a college which you donāt see talked about that often here considering its size, so being an ambassador of good will for there is like being the āMaytag Repairmanā.
Dramasopranomom, I think you misunderstood. If a school wants a student due to talent, I do not consider their efforts at communication to be kindness. They want the studentās talent.
@SpartanDrew I know you were disappointed with NYU when you visited Clive Davis (part of Tisch)ā¦but NYUās School of Music is in Steinhardt and Steinhardt DOES give merit aid. Not only do they give financial aid with a talent merit aid component which increases the more NYU wants you, NYU also gives merit aid to music students who do not have financial need. Our D was a VP student at NYU Steinhardt with a concentration in MT. We had a high EFC and did not receive any financial aidābut D was granted a merit scholarship of $11K a year (non-need based.) Steinhardt gives talented RD students talent merit aid without need in both music and art.
Didnāt seem like I had much expertise to share, and Iām relatively private and know how small and tight the music world can be, especially when you narrow by genreā¦but now that heās happily off to college, itās nice to feel like I might have some small bit of knowledge/experience to contribute here and there to give back!)