The Tours, The Journey and the Decisions moving forward

College Majors Music Major
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Wow!!! So many great and informative posts here! Thank you all and I am certain your experiences are helpful to many others walking in our shoes at the moment! Especially since D is in the home stretch, 5 of 6 college apps submitted, pre-screens being recorded tomorrow and submitted by end of the week and her first actual acceptance from Western Michigan came in the mail!

So some comments and questions. @uskoolfish thanks for the scoop on NYU. Don’t get me wrong, there was absolutely nothing unimpressive about NYU! D LOVED it and if not for the money factor would be applying there and have it on her short list big time. In looking between Tisch and Steinhardt, there wasn’t really anything in vocal jazz. Is that accurate? She loved the idea of Clive Davis for recorded music but then discovered it was far more geared towards music industry than actual performance and they made that clear. That being said, I’ve heard of a couple Clive students graduating and getting signed by a label pretty quickly. Everything we have ever heard however is that NYU gives next to nothing in merit aid. 11K as great as that sounds, still doesn’t really make a dent in the 70++K tuition. She has The New School (jazz) on her short list and I’ve heard is similar in not being uber generous in merit aid. I guess we will find out. Needless to say, NYC may not be in the cards for her unless some generous merit aid comes though.

My only other questions are regarding admissions. D did get regular admission to Western but auditions on Jan 20 so this was just admission to the school, not the music school. Have many of your kids who have been down this path before us gotten early acceptance letters to a particular college or do the acceptances come with merit offers and everything all at once after auditions in the winter? Also, how long (typically) was it before music schools contacted your kids with invitations for live auditions? It would be nice to plan travel well in advance for submitting planned vacation time, cheaper flights and lodging.

Thanks again for all of the excellent comments. I don’t know what we would do without this site! I really feel like we are ahead of the game from all of the great comments and advice here. After this week we can sit back, relax…and wait!

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@SpartanDrew D rec’d a BM degree in Vocal Performance with a concentration in Musical Theatre. There is also an option for Classical Voice. She performed standards as part of her senior showcase–Gershwin/ Berlin songs like Blue Skies and Blah, Blah, Blah, but Steinhardt does not offer a jazz concentration. As far as merit aid goes, understand that anything above $10K–$15K tops-- would be considered good merit aid from most schools. (That is without financial need.) Realistically I would not expect more than that. If you have financial need, the total package offered by schools can be substantially more based on your need.

Good luck!!!

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@Spartandrew S applied to 9 schools for music, was accepted to 8. The acceptances were all over the place. Schools with rolling admissions generally admitted him to the university pretty quickly, with admission to the music program soon after auditions. But others with a March notification seemed to send the whole thing - university and music school admission - at once.

Often the financial packages came with, or at the same time as, the admission notification. But a couple came later.

The admission to Western before auditioning is totally normal for a school with rolling admission. Good luck!

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@SpartanDrew Congrats on the Western admission! Even though the audition is pending, it is nice to get good news.

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@uskoolfish I think the 10-15K for schools in NYC is pretty consistent. I have had PM’s from parents of students who have received anywhere from 20K to full rides in merit aid (not need based) at most of the schools on D’s list, with 20 being the highest I had heard at New School in NY. I was also told by a professor at Frost at U Miami that every admitted student to Frost is offered “at least” 40% tuition in merit aid. I’m not sure what that works out to be in merit but I’ve heard from enough other parents of students admitted to most of D’s schools that these higher numbers are very possible. Without them they will be off the table for her. We do not qualify for financial need, that being said I’m not sure there are many out there that can afford 65-75K per year. Yikes!

Thanks @BassTheatreMom, that’s pretty much what what we expect for the process. Do you or anyone else on the board here have any thoughts on the differences between a BM or a BFA? I recall someone on GoForth journal last year saying they were offered admission to a particular school, can’t remember who, but they thought it was for a BM but instead it was a BFA and they were upset. I need to educate myself on the differences (if any really) between the two degrees.

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@SpartanDrew - S got an offer from Frost, but soon after S mentioning to them that cost would be an issue, the tone changed and a follow-up offer letter showed he would be admitted as a BFA instead of a BM. We weren’t sure what that was about, but didn’t follow-up on it since it didn’t matter anymore.

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@SpartanDrew When D applied (no need) a number of years ago-- thankfully tuition was lower–the most money she got from any school was a $24K total package from American University–that was with both academic and talent (music) awards. She got $15K from GW (Presidential Arts Scholarship–voice) and about $20K from Muhlenberg (academics and talent–vocal/ theatre-- awards combined.) Unfortunately, the trend in many schools in the past few years has been to LOWER the merit aid pot for non-need students (rather than increase it to keep up with higher tuition), as more schools concentrate on need-based aid.

Above that $15K (to maybe $20K) mark seems VERY high in my experience for pure merit aid–no need. Yes, there are some schools that give out a handful of full tuition scholarships without need, but those are extremely rare. Just make sure that the people who are talking about their packages do not have ANY need at all. If they have need, the numbers they are telling you may reflect some of that financial aid, even if it sounds like merit or talent money alone.

Sounds like the Frost scholarships are in the $19K range if they are 40% of tuition–still leaving you with another $46K + to pay.

The best way to check out the real deal in terms of merit money is go to the common data set for each school your D is applying for (just do a google search for common data set plus the school’s name). TheCommon data set divides up financial aid on the forms to show financial aid with need and non-need financial $. They also will show what the average award is.

Here is the link for University of Miami. http://pira.miami.edu/_assets/pdf/Documents/CDS1617.pdf

If you go to page 23 for 2016/2017, you will see that the average non-need based package is $19,724 and they gave out 614 of those rewards–which is a lot. Compare that to other schools on your D’s list.

As for the BM degree vs the BFA degree, they are both considered professional degrees and a large percent of the classes a student will take are in their major (generally at least 75%). I believe that with the BM degree there is more of an academic requirement in music–so classes in music theory, aural training, music history. All music majors (regardless of their instrument) will be required to take the same sequence of required classes. While the BFA degree has a large concentration also, the classes taken can be more interdisciplinary in nature. They tend to be musical theatre degree or art degree programs.

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@SpartanDrew I am not an expert on the BFA/BM difference, but it seems to me classical performers and most jazz performers go for the BM. My S plays double bass, and he applied to all BM programs - not sure he even looked at anything other than that. My D, who is a senior this year, is applying to Musical Theatre, and they seem to mostly be BFA. Like uskoolfish said, they mostly don’t have the intense music theory and history sequence that my son’s BM program requires, but it’s more than in a BA program.

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Thanks so much @uskoolfish and @BassTheatreMom. Both posts super helpful information. Clearly D and I need to educate ourselves a bit more on the BM/BFA as several of the schools she is applying to offer BFA and not BM for jazz voice including New School.

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@SpartanDrew , aaaaack! I think I just had a PTSD experience thinking about your questions! Haha…no, seriously. I had to look back at some emails to answer you properly, because I blocked some of this out (even though it was just last year). First, to the question about prescreen responses, most schools publish a date by which you can expect a response. I think we heard from everybody by December 15, and most were quite a bit sooner (earlier than published). To the question about school acceptances, program acceptances, aid packages, etc…the answer is, as @BassTheatreMom says, every school/program is different! At some colleges, where academic acceptance is handled separately (especially in more academically selective schools), a prospective student cannot even audition without that offer of admission to the University. At other programs, audition and acceptance into the School of Music, for instance, is intimately tied to acceptance at the College, and you will receive an overall offer of admission all at once.

The BM versus BFA or even BA question is a really important one. But again, the answer changes substantially from program to program (especially in voice). Sometimes, acceptance into the BM track is tied to access to particular, top tier teachers (again, especially in voice) and I suspect this would be very important to know for your D, so absolutely check on this!! Other times, a BM track might guarantee access to particular classes (like dance) which aren’t available with the BA, and a BFA may guarantee access to acting classes, etc. These things may or may not be important to you…it’s possible a program may realize that your D won’t need or want the classes set aside for BM, and is offering a program track they feel more closely fits your child’s goals. When you receive these sorts of offers, your D needs to ask a lot of questions (email is best, because you are going to start to be confused trying to keep track of all the particulars). Also be sure to check about the outside of Music degree requirements, because sometimes a BA or BFA program will require a lot more standard academic classes, which you may, or may not, want!

As to Financial notifications!!! Again, these are All Over The Place! For us, one thing we found highly frustrating, but didn’t expect, are the offers of admission (soooo exciting, right?!?) without any idea of money! Aaaack! Many programs sent talent merit award offers with the offers of admission to the School of Music, (post audition, obviously) which is great. Since we did qualify for need based aid, we had absolutely zero way of making any decisions until we had full Financial Aid packages. Oberlin was the only school that sent it all at once, acceptance, merit + need, and it was really wonderful to have the whole offer (but, of course, it was the last of the notifications, just squeaking in around March 23). My D had a neighboring State School as a safety, and they still hadn’t sent merit notification by mid-June, looong after D had committed at Oberlin…seriously, guys?!? You are going to get a lot of practice working your patience muscles, lol! Best of luck! All us old timers (hehe) are rooting for your D!

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Thanks @dramasopranomom! Believe me I get the PTSD reference. I’m feeling it already and we are at the beginning of the journey versus the end LOL. All of the information and perspective is very very helpful to us as we navigate this process. We head to the studio in an hour, D has finally stopped coughing after 2 weeks and I am hopeful she can get everything recorded today. May have to go back one more time to finalize YoungArts auditions but hoping to complete everything. Whew. Fingers crossed for successful recordings today.

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For what it is worth, I look at it as you have your BM (a known degree path) and then a few other options like BFA, BS or BA (a more unknown degree path and varying from school to school) so you really need to look at the semester-by-semester curriculum for these degrees as well as any limitations/differences in access to teachers/performances etc.

If a school has a BM degree, you can probably assume for now it’s a standard degree…and maybe dig down once you get an acceptance. For a BFA, BS, or BA, you may want to check it closely before you audition to be sure its what you want. My D did a BS in Music within a conservatory. We were very comfortable with that…in fact really liked some of the flexibility. All other programs she chose to audition for were BMs. The one BS was at a school with a BM and did not penalize her for being a BS student…just gave some flexibility in classes (meaning less music electives for more classes in a chosen area). When she auditioned for grad schools…no one cared what degree she had. Still you want to assure you can get all necessary course work in for a BA, BS or BFA; and with AP credits my D could. And understand any limitations.

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If I remember correctly, the New School for Jazz only offers a BFA…no BMus, for both instrumental and vocal, but the music to non-music class ratio was about the same as most BMus schools. If your D loves the school and they offer good merit, I wouldn’t let the degree name throw you off. You can compare the 4 year/8 semester plans of the different schools to see if the curriculum meets your expectations or if the liberal arts requirements seem too heavy.

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Back from the studio and D’s pre-screens and youngarts jazz videos are in the bag and sound great! Just under the wire for YoungArts! WHEW! Having had to reschedule this with the professional jazz combo was a logistical nightmare but we pulled it off. D should have the rest of her essays done and all of her apps and prescreens submitted by next Monday. Then I’m sure it will feel like an eternity before we hear back on audition invitations.

I am planning to meet with D’s vocal coach (who is a jazz vocalist on adjunct faculty at 2 Universities near us) and will pick her brain as well regarding the BM/BFA info. It’s all very confusing to us but I will also pull up the semester by semester plans for each college she is applying to so we can get a feel for it. How does it work as far as studying with a particular professor? I know Loyola only has one prof for jazz voice, we didn’t meet her when we were there. I don’t know about Frost but I do know who D really would want to study with there. And we have no clue on the rest of them. Is it different for vocalists? AT Berklee there were at least a dozen vocal teachers there. I am unsure on the other schools she is applying to.

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Yes, @SpartanDrew, I would suggest that it IS (or can be) different for vocalists. Because your D is a Vocal Jazz candidate, maybe not so much. The reason it can be so different for vocalists has to do with, in part, the rise of Musical Theatre focus degrees…if I remember your D’s list of schools, she is applying to at least a couple with highly regarded MT VP programs. In any college where vocalists are focusing on quite different programs, there can be different pools of faculty used for each, or fewer spots in coveted studios set aside for each degree program. Perhaps most of your schools have a dedicated Vocal Professor (or more than one) for the Jazz Degree candidates? I don’t know how that works. If so, then this won’t be such an issue for your D. Sometimes, by entering a BFA program at school A, a student has access to group Y private teachers, while BM candidates have access to group X teachers. It’s just something to be very aware of as you work through the process.

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So we are in the home stretch of college applications, supplemental music apps, prescreen videos, etc. We had a couple more questions come up. One is on the early action for Frost. Not for D but for a friend’s D who is academically stellar. She thought she read that the application and prescreens are all due on Nov 1st. That would maybe make sense for early action academically but doesn’t Frost send out ALL notifications of admission and merit money at the same time in mid-March? If that’s the case I wouldn’t expect that the Nov 1st due date would be necessary since the regular due date for prescreens is Dec 1st. Does anyone know?

My other question was on U Arts in Philly. Does anyone have any experience, visits, comments, etc.? Thinking maybe we might want to consider a visit and add it to the list.

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I think this is the thread where the word “collaboration” has been batted around a lot, so I thought I’d post this video. A nice example of a project that brought together a bunch of students in various roles, musicians as well as production. (If you click on ‘more’ in the video description, you can see the long list of production participants.) The conductor, I believe, is a film score major and pretty sure it’s his project. Based on my son’s hair length, I think it was recorded some time last winter/spring. This is one of many such projects he was involved in, as a freshman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qRhteE1fzc&feature=youtu.be

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listening to it now. It’s wonderful!!

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Glad he is enjoying Berklee. It looks like they all are!

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D has all of her college apps submitted along with supplemental music/fine arts apps and prescreens. Yay! Now we wait for hopeful invitations for live auditions. I scrolled through MezzoMama’s thread from last year (that I clearly didn’t have a clue how to post on LOL) and realized that many didn’t post notifications until late December or even January. Of course, that will make travel plans even more expensive. If anyone has any experience around how soon they were notified that their kid was invited to audition that would be great. I heard a lot of terms used like “I was notified I passed my prescreen” so I’m curious what that correspondence was exactly. If you don’t pass the prescreen do they email you a rejection and that’s that? It’s possible many of those posts were just all at once and people actually heard earlier but since many prescreens aren’t due until December 1st so I’m guessing it will be awhile.

D and I are both happy and relieved to have them completed and submitted. I still worry that maybe we should add one or two more to the list since it’s pretty short. That being said I can’t think of one we should add really except possibly U Arts which I am hearing a bit more about. I imagine everything will sort itself out in time. Good luck to all of you out there working on applications, prescreens, etc. Good grief this is quite a process!