The Tours, The Journey and the Decisions moving forward

My D auditioned for classical VP…and never did a sample lesson with a teacher. We were very ignorant…and more focused on MT which doesn’t do the studio system. Blissfully unaware, we went through the auditions and received acceptances. My D did have a teacher reach out with a studio offer and she did end up at that school. My D even went down for orientation in the summer and never thought to contact the teacher lol. We didn’t want to be “gauche”. She met her teacher the first week of school…they are still in contact 7 years later. BUT I wouldn’t advise that approach…still if you don’t have big dollars to do the “right” thing, you will not be alone and it can still work out.

Note some schools do placement the first week. Sometimes it’s different by instrument. If you have a school on your list and you are hesitant about what to do…pick up the phone and call the music school. They will understand why you are calling and help you understand their “process” for setting up sample lessons. Most schools are very helpful.

@GagasMom the way we set-up lessons was to contact the professor. If you can’t travel, many are happy to do a Skype lesson. The lesson was really helpful to see if my D18 like the professor. We spent time chatting about the admission process, the studio, and scholarships. Also, since each professor had heard her play several months before the audition they all commented on her improvement (which according to her private teacher is very important). At some auditions there were students having their first lesson with the professor the day before their audition. D had a repeat lesson with one professor the day before, it was really helpful, he even didn’t have her play one piece during her audition since he had heard it the day before. I know VP is different, since there are usually several VP studios, but you could contact the main number for music and ask about prospective student lessons if you don’t feel comfortable asking individual professors.

thank you all for your responses, i feel a little less worried I’m messing D up here. and @BassTheatreMom that has been exactly my thinking: there was no real reason to tour schools we would be returning to (assuming she got past prescreens for some of course) in a few months. And if she needed to see a school again after an acceptance, that would make more sense to do. @bridgenail – I was thinking the same thing about # of kids auditioning: would they all be trying to get sample lessons with profs? sigh. Ok thank you all again.

One other quick comment: don’t be afraid to tell a school/teacher of your sincere interest but that your pocketbook doesn’t allow you to come visit. You can ask for a sample lesson prior to an audition but if not possible at least a teacher is on notice of your interest. My D did this more for grad school auditions. She had to drop one audition due to lack of funds to travel. They allowed a video audition and gave an acceptance and scholarship. Don’t be afraid to state the money concerns…schools/teachers get it! They may offer solutions too.

@GagasMom I have a different perspective but I have an instrumentalist not a vocalist. I found trips junior year to be very helpful. Based on the trips, we eliminated some schools, saved an audition trip as one prof said to send a recording as he considered that lesson as enough, and built a rapport with potential profs. It is an investment but I think the returns in scholarship way outweigh that. In addition, the profs gave feedback which was invaluable. We also did one lesson the day before audition and that was very helpful as the prof told her what he was going to ask her to play (the “audition requirements” were extensive and he only asked for maybe half of it).

Mine didn’t do any sample lessons, either–and he had no regrets and plenty of confidence in ultimately choosing his program. He also got one of his largest music merit offers from a video audition at a notoriously stingy school…I can’t stress enough how individual this process can be. Arm yourselves with knowledge, and then trust yourselves to do whatever feels right/best for your musician’s unique situation!

One feling that arose after a week-long summer camp with a prof is that the prof would now be able to know how much you improved when you next meet. So the prof could know your position and velocity.

Thank you for trip down memory lane with the March Madness thread from last year; it’s such a good reminder of how much things can settle and change in the space of a few months. I’m thinking of all of you parents and your wonderfully courageous musicians, who will know in just a few short weeks where they will land for the next four years.

@GagasMom , trial lessons and visits and so very important. It is ideal, of course, to spread these out over time; if you CAN do some this year, then GREAT! Another possibility is sending your D to a summer program, affiliated with a top choice school, where several faculty will be available to work with your child. In our case, like yours, every visit was a plane ride, and finances were a major factor. So, we didn’t do any trial lessons before audition season (except at a small LAC in a neighboring state where D decided not to apply), but extended her audition tours so that she had time for trial lessons at each program. D also attended a summer program at one of her top choice schools, and was able to work with several primary faculty in voice as well as with the main Opera/MT Director. This was very valuable. She was offered admission at the school (where she didn’t end up), and her “main” private teacher from the summer festival knew her now-current Undergrad teacher and they definitely emailed about her during audition season. These sorts of communications are very helpful!

@thisismynameOH , I’ll chime in here regarding teacher selection/assignment. This is more simple if there are only one or two Professors in your S’s instrument…in the case of VP and especially where there are Graduate programs (like was mentioned by @coloraturadad and others up thread ^) it is not always that simple. Subtle negotiations happen in this realm sometimes between Studios within a college and especially for coveted students/studios; there is likely a “culture” at each school and a “way that things are done”. I think this shows itself most in large instrument/vocal areas. For instance, it is possible that a teacher (or multiple teachers) from on school will reach out to a student early on with personal emails and offering a place in their studio. But this doesn’t happen for all students, every year; many will be assigned a studio after those other negotiations have sorted themselves out. Coveted studios often have only a few openings, and musicians who are offered spots in those studios are definitely getting accepted to other college programs and other “big” studios. For instance, at one school, my D received emails from 4 major faculty talking personally about her audition and /or trial lessons, and outright offering a spot in their studio. I know for certain that some admitted VP kids received the same sorts of offers, and that some others received no such communications, and just formally requested their choices and waited to be assigned. In other cases, a student may have had a personal experience already with a teacher (say at a summer program), and so only THAT teacher sends the studio offer (likely it is clear to other faculty that this student is already claimed by the other teacher). So subtle things happen behind the scenes. At another program, my D received warm, positive communications showing interest from 3 primary faculty after her audition, but with no mention of an official offer of studio… I’m guessing at this school, such offers are frowned upon, and the idea is, if my D was also interested in the teacher, communications would commence, and likely studio offers would have been imminent. Alternatively, one school absolutely did NOT guarantee teacher assignments, but you knew by degree program which teachers were in the “pool” to be assigned to. Even at this school, my D received communications from one teacher in particular, so I’m guessing that teacher was staking a claim of sorts? Personally, my D would not have chosen a program without a teacher assignment, UNLESS it was a super coveted program and all the options were acceptable to her. BUT, she had several big acceptances, and so, choices (I’m not saying this to suggest it’s bad if you don’t have this, but the choices and studio offers from other institutions give you leverage). When it comes down to the nitty gritty, it is possible to rely on these subtle communications UNTIL a student is choosing between two final programs; at that point, absolutely, I would insist upon official studio offers (most big programs know this and will do so without a request) before committing.

@GagasMom it is hard to know how much to invest in visits and lessons before application season, but sometimes it is really helpful to rule in or out a school, and ruling out schools can save money, fatigue and stress during application and audition season. We found them very valuable. My son’s junior year spring break we visited two schools that would have been quite a haul if we had to do them both during a long audition season, so we were hoping to rule at least one of them out, or both, especially since both schools usually had the exact same audition dates, most of which were already likely to be occupied with schools he was either more interested in or which were his financial safeties. We did rule one school out based on the trip. We were able to combine that trip with a family visit and also got some time in a warm climate during spring break, which was nice. If your kid has any summer program experience with any of the profs she is considering, you probably do not need a sample lesson with them.

We found that the profs often were more candid about merit money in these sample lessons than they could be in emails, and that can help you rule in or out certain schools - perhaps not stating exact dollar ranges, but often with useful info such as “don’t expect more than a few thousand in music merit, but if you have good academic stats check the school web site to find out what academic merit awards you might qualify for” or “I do have two out of state tuition waivers to offer my top applicants and you would be competitive” or “our merit awards usually bring the cost down to about what you’d pay for an in state public school.” Sometimes profs will tell you how many spots they are likely to have in their studios for next year, and some will give you a pretty good sense of whether or not you are competitive for admissions. If you get a “keep up the great work, I look forward to hearing your audition” or “I think you’d be a good fit for my studio” that’s a very positive sign, whereas if they tell you you need to work on certain areas to be competitive then the school is probably a reach. That type of feedback can help you figure out whether your list of schools is on target, needs more/fewer safeties, etc. An experienced private teacher or a competitive summer program with a high level of student talent can accomplish the same thing, though, in terms of helping the student assess where he or she stands in comparison to the national/international pool of applicants.

Different schools handle sample lessons differently - some like to arrange the schedule and sample lessons themselves but most just ask the student contact the prof directly. You could inquire generally at a music school about music school tour days/times and ask how sample lessons usually work there. Often they will tell you to contact the prof directly, but that initial contact with the school of music can be helpful because then you can tell the prof (for example) that you’d like to take the 10am music school tour on the day of your visit if possible so you can make sure the sample lesson doesn’t conflict with a tour.

We only had to pay for one sample lesson, but that also was the longest one and the most like a private lesson. The others were more like a short private lesson, then an info/Q&A session. The pattern seemed to be that the prof would listen to my son play for a while, offer some feedback, then the prof went into a discussion about the studio and school and answered any questions my son had. Some profs then invited the parents in to answer any questions that we had. Your mileage may vary since you are looking at very different programs.

So I guess overall my advice is to consider at least a few early visits if 1) you don’t really know how competitive your daughter is for admission or what level of school to target or 2) there are schools that you are trying to rule in or out for various reasons and where you cannot get questions answered with a series of calls to the music school or emails to the prof. Sample lessons also may make your D more comfortable interacting with profs.

I think I’ve seen it noted here that there really aren’t that many commercial vocal programs out there. Is that correct? If that is the case, it may be you can’t afford to rule ANY of them out, though finding out if she is competitive also could be very valuable in case you need a backup plan.

Just want to note that summer programs can be a good way to meet teachers. Many have financial aid if that is a concern. (My kid did not do any sample lessons but did meet with teachers after acceptance.)

Hi guys – oh boy yes now Im stressed again. :slight_smile: But thank you so much for your thoughtful responses. @classicalsaxmom you are correct that there are few commercial music programs available so we don’t have a lot of eliminating to do. But we do have a couple of tours this spring (the ones a little easier distance-wise) so D can get a sense of different schools. I will see about possible sample lessons. D did do a summer music program last summer and hopes to do one again this summer. Have to admit that it is all a little demoralizing to realize the amount of $ one has to have in order to try to prepare and apply to schools in the arts. I don’t need to tell you all how $$ the summer music programs are. Also private vocal coaching/lessons that she needs to be able to take more of as audition/prescreen season approaches. All before one pays for flights, transportation, accommodations, food, etc with travel. I realize I am preaching to the proverbial choir. Thank you again for your thoughts and advice – I am keeping my fingers crossed for all of you and your kids over the next few weeks!

In many cases, you are preaching to the literal choir.

@gagasmom - just wanted to add…the role of the parent is nothing compared to the talent of the kid. Don’t sweat every detail bc you’ll have it all figured out and something amazing will come out of left field…that’s a kid’s talent…not a parent’s brilliance in figuring out the system. Focus on and support her talent as best you can. Collect lots of information like above (great comments). Just remember it is sometimes hard to see talent as separate from the parental effort during auditions…but it is separate…most definitely…if it weren’t my sweet princess would be living in my basement!

thanks @bridgenail – wise words. you are right that it is hard to separate at this point. as the mom I see what i perceive as a massive field of crazy talented kids and so of course I’d like to help her try to single herself out when she can (i.e. professors knowing her) but feel too green to really understand the system well to figure out what is actually helpful. oddly enough I was also a performing arts major but “back then” it was way way WAY simpler. cost us a tank of gas to drive for my scholarship audition and besides a measly university application fee, that was it. times have changed for all prospective college students, no matter the major, but performing arts majors are on a whole other planet.

My d will be a vocal performance major next year. We only visited a few schools junior year, knowing she would have to audition anyway. She sang for a few professors at each school. I hoped to have her narrow down what she liked about schools - but it didn’t really work that way. She likes a huge state school as much as some small LACs. D’s voice teacher gave us a list of schools, and names of teachers to contact for lessons. That helped a lot. We also scheduled lessons as part of the audition process when possible, The schools where D felt a good fit during private lessons are now the top choices as we wait for scholarship offers.

Wow. Lot’s of great info. Did not consider doing lessons via Skype

@GagasMom I absolutely understand your anxiety! Please know, though, that you don’t HAVE to do ALL of the things! We frankly could not afford to do many of the things at all. One non-auditioned summer program between sophomore and Jr. year, no private lessons from a “name” teacher, and only two local lessons/evaluations during Jr. year to be able to better gauge where to target applications. Visits happened during the auditions after passing the prescreens.

It is great to get all the information you can about preliminary visits, lessons and summer programs. You can then take that information and use it to formulate the best plan for your child’s and family’s circumstances. I’ve been there…afraid and frustrated that we didn’t have the means to give our S every bit of “edge” every other kid might have. But as @bridgenail said, nothing you can do matters as much as the talent of the kid and their preparation and performance in the audition room. I have no doubt your D will find a good fit in a wonderful program. And once she’s there, her talent, grit, determination and work ethic will be what counts, as she will be among equally talented peers.

In the meantime, keep asking questions getting tons of useful information from the lovely supportive folks here. There are many paths…your D will find the one that works for her, and for you!

D just texted me that she passed the audition at CSU Long Beach! She has not heard official word from the University but the conservatory said they have pull for admissions. This is the cheapest, best option (in my opinion) for California residents wanting to study music. I don’t know if it moves the needle off of UC Irvine but it is exciting!

@GagasMom we also never did summer programs. I had 4 kids so we certainly didn’t have the money, plus my kids had NO interest in giving up their whole summer to be stuck with just music kids!!! It didn’t affect anything. At all. I was on the side of sample lessons because we found that way cheaper, more focused, only took a short time out of my kids social life, and we did see benefits!! Plus it was a nice way to spend time with one of my kids alone, so to me it also built memories.
But that’s just our family. Everyone’s situation is going to be different. And isn’t that one of the wonderful things about college confidential?

Congrats @BearHouse!!! Isn’t it great to have options???