Congrats @BearHouse!
@GagasMom We did a combination of things mentioned here. Yes, each journey is different. Since all the schools were 8+ hours away we did the best we could. We did manage to squeeze in a few college visits before senior year. This helped rule out several colleges. Unfortunately sometimes an actual visit is the best way to gain specific information about the program. We never requested lessons. I always felt like requesting lessons was more of a thing that classical students did, I wasnât sure it really was meant for contemporary students. Fitting in the tours with limited travel time was about all we could manage. For schools that we visited during auditions we scheduled tours at that time. We learned that observing classes was also very helpful and made that happen when we could. My DD attended one summer program, where she learned a tremendous amount in a very short time. We are currently planning a spring break trip to visit schools where DD was admitted via video audition plus one school we will be revisiting to gain more info.
As someone said earlier, gather the info and do what feels right for you and your child. This is a long process. But you are in the right place! CC has been my lifeline for my preforming arts majors.
@GagasMom I felt lost starting this process but this community helps a lot! For my âacademicâ D1, it was much easier. Grades, test scores, ECs. For my music D2 daughter, it felt chaotic and random. The advice my Dâs music teacher told her was that it was about finding the next teacher more than the next school. My D took this advice to heart. But it seemed even more daunting. My D2 did not do any summer programs and only went to one trial lesson prior to audition season (ironically her only current denial). This was fall of her senior year.
We could not budget for trial lessons and travel junior year. Also, her voice has grown so much over the last year I am not sure we would had a good feel of her trajectory at that time. Plus, we are all worn out just from the audition travel even though we stayed on the west coast.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have had her visit three types of campuses prior to addition season. One free standing conservatory, one small/medium college and one large university. My D feels so much more comfortable on the large campuses that she could have excluded two of her applications from the start. We didnât know this at the beginning. But after several auditions it became apparent she was most relaxed and did her best singing at the larger colleges.
While the panel auditioned my D this year, it turns out she thinks she was auditioning them (see voice teacherâs advice above). The clear winners were programs that were personable and engaging or she had a connection with someone in the department. This has essentially cut her list to only four programs she is considering. It did not matter to her whether the program was a BA or a BM. She wanted to know that she could work with one of the panel members as her teacher for the next four years. I donât know if this is the best way to do it (or even advisable) but it is what my D has been doing without us really knowing.
The weird thing about this process is that it seems to works out regardless of the path you take.
I think applicants of all kind should have that attitude, that they are also interviewing or auditioning the schools. This is the way to find the oft-mentioned âfit.â And it also helps with nerves!
I think a lot of us parents stress about doing things right and not omitting something but Bear House is right, things tend to work out- at least over time.
We were lucky to have three different types of schools within an hour, and that is how we started college searches, even though none of my kids applied to those particular schools. The suggestion to do a freestanding conservatory tour, a college and a university is a wise one.
I would, however, wonder a bit if a kid said it didnât matter if it was a BA or a BM- big difference in many cases. Good reasons for either (or both). I understand the focus on teacher and vibe, but in the doing, over 4 years, the difference in the curricula is substantial I think.
Good luck everyone!
Wow so much great information and advice here. @GagasMom I completely understand how overwhelming and stressful it feels. We started touring schools during Dâs sophomore year. I remember back then she thought it was ridiculous to tour so early but honestly it helped her eliminate some schools. Mostly from the west coast but now I think she regrets that a bit.
We are in a really weird and unpleasant state at the moment. Iâve noticed D kind of shutting down around here. Sullen, moody, unhappy. We went out last night to see @jazzpianodadâs sonâs trio at a local jazz pub which was great. D was able to network with a bunch of local jazz people and hopefully set up some opportunities to sit in with jazz combos over the next months and summer. I talked to her and asked her why she seemed so down. She has all of these missing homework assignments hanging over her head and is sitting on terrible terrible grades. What makes matters worse is she seems to be completely checked out on any desire to get them completed. She has had a taste of college life through audition travel, along with complete joy hanging out with her grammy camp band recording over a long weekend, and high school seems redundant and pointless to her right now. It serves me no purpose continuing to nag her to get her work done and grades up or there will be NO college optionsâŠher 17 year old âI know everything and youâre an idiotâ teenage girl brain wonât hear me. Add to that the stress she feels of really having no idea where she will go for college and feels a bit lost on where she even WANTS to go. I did not expect that we would be in this position in mid March. It is very frustrating. I am hoping some great college offers will help her decide but itâs hard to know.
We have 2 last schools that we sent video auditions to that we have not visited. We may try to do that over her spring break, further draining our wallet but honestly, a visit is truly the only real way to get a feel for the place. Itâs important to know who she would study with, the vocal jazz professor or a TA, and what the overall vibe of the school is etc. I kind of have a point/counterpoint thought on the visits, trial lessons etc. We probably spent more time at Frost than any other place. We spent time there last spring and a lot of time this February for her audition. We spent a great deal of time with the head of jazz voice whom we adore. D had a lesson with her this past spring as well and loved every minute of it. That being said, if D is admitted to Frost, the JV prof said that D will NOT be studying with her. The prof pretty much only takes seniors and grad students so D would likely study with a TA. That is a hefty price tag to pay to study with a student in my opinion. The extended visit also gave D an opportunity to see things that she didnât like about the program as well which I think is an unfair comparison because every other place she has visited has been for very short visits and not the same in depth view of the program. So she really doesnât know all of the other âwartsâ that every program will have. I try to tell her that there will be something you donât like about every single college you visit so just because you havenât seen anything there, doesnât mean it doesnât exist. I hope that makes sense.
So now we wait and see. I need to try to get D out of this funk. She just texted me this morning that she bombed her world religion test. So that grade is about to tank as well. It is an honors class and so much is learned during class time and she missed so much in February that she couldnât possibly do well on that exam. It just adds to her frustration, stress, and anxiety. And to mine as well. I really really wish we had known about graduating a semester early. It would have solved 90% of the stress issues we are dealing with now. I hope all of this helps some parents that are behind us about to travel this path. And if anyone has any advice on our current dilemmas I am ALL EARS.
@SpartanDrew, first of all, thanks so much for going out to see my sonâs trio. He had a great time at the gig and really enjoyed meeting you and your daughter!
Second, âsenioritisâ is such a common affliction that it has a name. Particularly when you get so far behind, and youâre focused on the next stage of the journey, itâs hard to have the motivation to dig out. I think the best you can do is accept that the grades arenât going to be great and youâre not going to love the next couple of months, but you just need to do enough to graduate. Getting stressed over it isnât going to help. And try to keep the joy of the music going too.
Even though Iâm a few years removed from this stage, Iâm enjoying hearing about the journey for all of your talented kids as they make the transition to college. Hoping for more great results over the next couple of weeks!
@SpartanDrew , though she may not want to hear it from you right now, this is a good lesson to your D that some of the things you have to do in order to reach the next stage goals are hard and no fun. She just needs to think about how the HS work needs to get done, so that she can move on to the next phase.
I am surprised to hear about the Frost TA issue in jazz voice. We specifically asked that question at Frost in regards to classical voice, to some TAs we met, some current undergrads and to voice teachers, and were told that though TAs assist the professors/instructors, the professors/instructors are teaching the voice majors in studio. The TAs teach the non-music majors who want to minor in voice or take voice classes. But maybe jazz is different for some reason.
PMing you Spartan DrewâŠ
@compmom I agree with you about the BM versus BA distinction. My preference is for her to consider the BM as I think this is a better fit for her. However, to her it is less of a priority than teacher selection and campus environment.
@SpartanDrew Hopefully, seniorities will evaporate when your D becomes excited about where she is going. My D had it as well until the UC Irvine admit. That changed her attitude.
I should clarify on the TA comment with regard to Frost. The jazz prof told us she is in the process of hiring another professor right now which could be why a junior I know in JV studies with a TA. Perhaps it will change next year which I imagine it will. But that being said, itâs the head JV prof that D would want to study with and I donât think freshmen or sophomores do. Itâs an important aspect of the decision I think.
@SpartanDrew, sorry to hear your D has suffered in school from all the travel.
My general advice to my kids in similar situations is donât go into avoidance/denial mode, be proactive. Set up meetings with the teachers and develop a plan to remedy previous missed work to the fullest extent possible, and more importantly to anticipate future missed work for any upcoming arts-related absences and figure out the best way to deal with it. Kids, just like most humans, will naturally avoid situations that make them uncomfortable, but this is one where avoidance only makes things worse.
Is it what sheâd prefer to be doing? No, but it wonât be the last time. Even in the most narrowly focused degree program, there will almost surely be required classes she wonât have as much natural aptitude for, or enjoy as much. Still gotta give 'em your best effort. And completing and turning in work on time is a thing even in the classes you shine in and love.
Best of luck to you, and her.
@SpartanDrew - I diagnosis a bad case of Senioritis too. Also your D may âcrashâ after a heavy performance schedule. My D still struggles with thisâŠoverloading herself and working obsessively at performingâŠand then having an emotional and physical crash when that performance pressures ends. Itâs a personality type. And if that type rings true, it is something sheâll need to deal with in the future too. I only prescribe lots of rest. For you, itâs a good time to let go. Believe it or not, sheâll probably right the ship just enough on her own over time.
And we did the strategy of looking at 3 different styles of campuses too. The big U, the small LAC and a stand-alone conservatory. Based on those experiences and teacher recommendations, my D made her first list of schools. She did audition at some schools that she had never visited.
BearHouse, your daughter sounds like an awesome kid who knows what she wants. Sometimes I post more for others reading this thread in the future. Everything depends on the individual!
Spartan Drew, your daughterâs situation is different from senioritis because she has so much catch-up to do, which would make anyone shut off without support from the school and a plan that is possible. I wonder if finding outside help in the form of a coach, counselor, advocate and meeting with the school (including you, your husband, outside person and daughter) with the school would come up with some solutions.
We did a slight variation at the beginning when picking schools, as we knew a stand alone conservatory was not a good option for S18. We toured a large SEC school, a medium sized academically elite school with a very competitive music school, and a small LAC with a music department, to narrow down the types of schools. The only problem was that he liked all three types! So low and behold, one year later, S18âs three most likely options have boiled down to a large school, a medium school, and a small LAC.
If your students are under pressure now, itâs unlikely to change when they start college. There will be plenty of classes they will not like or enjoy. They will all need to learn how to cope in stressful situations and work through it. Just because they are majoring is music, doesnât mean itâs not stressful. Time management will be more important than ever!
Thanks all. Believe me I realize avoidance is the worst possible tactic but I simply cannot force her to do the work. I think the next plan weâve come up with, with some great advice from friends, is to restrict her social activity until she shows some evidence of turning in missing work. I donât want to treat her like a child but right now I think itâs the only way. And she is supposed to miss another entire week of school for YoungArts which, at this point, is on the table to be pulled as well if she doesnât get it together. I think the threat of that should likely do the trick. I hope so anywayâŠ
Also, in my opinion, you should be stressing to your children to pick a school where they feel at home. Teachers leave and switch schools all the time. What a shame to pick a school based solely on the teacher only to have the teacher leave. Based on my sonâs experience, you cannot really get a feel of compatibility with only one lesson.
agree with you 100% @rockinmomab on everything. For clarification D isnât choosing a school based on the professor at all. My point was more about paying a huge tuition to have your musician study with a TA. Personally I donât think thatâs reasonable and it doesnât happen everywhere.
That is a great reminder about working with TAâs. My kid is considering VP and composition and ideally would like to combine. Well, we went to one school and he could take voice while a composition major, but heâd be studying with a TA. Ugh - heâs been working with a performing MM voice teacher for going on 5 years in voice! I really want to spend 30K+ a year to step backwards. For my kid, heâs much less experienced with comp so working with a TA on comp would be ok so if heâs going to apply there itâs clear what his path should be. Heâs also taken piano for 13 years and plays guitar. So heâs a unique music student that has a burning passion for MUSIC but not for one path. Some schools will let you audition with multiple profs and my kid would much prefer that. Itâs hard to know what questions to ask! I really appreciate the parents whoâve been through this sharing their experiences. (ETA - to be clear, my kid is a junior this year).
There are a lot of variables one cannot control such as a teacher leaving/retiring/getting ill. However, when voice is your instrument you donât want to turn that training to someone you donât trust. It is not just the connection but the reputation of the teacher - do their students advance or is their voice damaged. I would be wary of a TA for a singer.
I agree that feeling at âhomeâ is an important part of the decision.