The truth about SCS - is there time for a life?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Carnegie Mellon University
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<p>S was waitlisted for SCS but plans on transferring next year from H&SS. After seeing their requirements for a comp sci major, how is there any time for anything else?? S is not only interested in cs, but he's interested in exploring a lot of courses in H&SS. But when you're going through SCS "boot camp", how can you possibly explore anything else? There's a ton of math and cs classes you have to get through first. Not only don't you have time to take other classes, but how can you possibly have time for ec's?</p>

<p>Is there anyone in SCS who can give me some experiences of other kids who are majoring in cs, but didn't want it to be their entire life and have other interests that they were able to do?</p>

2

<p>I know this isn’t directly related to your question, but I think it’s a bad idea to plan on transferring into SCS. Lots of students want to do this, but from what I’ve heard I think it’s almost impossible to do. For it to be even a possibility, I think you would need to have almost perfect grades in your first year and a half, including in some really tough intro courses. In fact, one of the intro courses, Great Theoretical Ideas in Computer Science, is such a hard course that it’s not unusual for students to change majors when they see how tough it is.</p>

<p>I think that the biggest factor in the amount of time required is the preparation, particularly in math, you have. (Yes, math. I’m only a freshmen, so I can’t really speak to the higher level courses they have here, but it seems that the primary skill you need to do well in the classes early on is to be very very comfortable with math. Even if you don’t have much programming background, you’ll be fine if you can do the math.) If in high school you did math competitions and were, for example, a USAMO qualifier, then many of the intro courses will seem in fact very easy–the Great Theoretical Ideas course I mentioned is actually quite easy if you have such a math background. On the other hand, if you never did much math, then the courses are incredibly difficult, and would take a LOT of time. Even bright students will be bogged down just because there is so much material being presented that, if all of it is new, it is a tremendous amount of information to retain.</p>

<p>I’m sort of a nerd, so I’m not sure how good my opinion is, but I’ll try to help. I definitely don’t think that it’s impossible to be in SCS and to still have a life. However, I suspect that many of the most successful students are the types who enjoy doing homework and are less likely to be involved in clubs, activities, etc. However, I think that most if not all people here have other interests that they are able to do as well. In my free time I work out at the gym, and play piano and online chess.</p>

<p>About exploring classes in H&SS–I think this would be very difficult with a CS major. I suspect that the best solution may be for him to major in Information Sciences. This major is part of H&SS, it’s similar to CS, and it’s thought to be easier than the CS major. This way, your son wouldn’t have to worry about transferring (which may be impossible), wouldn’t be required to take the “killer” intro CS courses, and would probably have more time to explore other courses.</p>

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<p>I knew so many people who wanted to transfer into SCS as freshmen, then realized that the workload was hell, and then promptly abandoned it, or just went for a minor. I’m not a CS major (ECE major here), but I do take a lot of CS courses. </p>

<p>By the way, are you looking at this: [School</a> of Computer Science](<a href=“http://coursecatalog.web.cmu.edu/schoolofcomputerscience/]School”>School of Computer Science < Carnegie Mellon University)</p>

<p>when you mention the number of courses that CS majors have to take? If you look at the sample schedules (scroll down), I do think that there are spaces in the schedule where you can take other classes besides math and science (I also believe that there are gen eds your son would need to fill anyways, in the humanities), so your son would be able to take a few humanities.</p>

<p>GaussianInteger is right when he (assuming so?) says that a strong background in math is particularly important in cs. I find that a lot of CS involves a lot of proofs, algorithms, etc. It’s not going to be much of the plug-and-chug sort of math that’s normally taught in high school, where you just work through problems.</p>

<p>About having a life in CS… This depends on what type of person your son is. I’m a current sophomore and so I’ve noticed that to succeed in CS classes, you absolutely need to start early and/or have a good work ethic. If you just procrastinate and don’t start until the day it’s due for courses past the introductory level, you’ve pretty much have just screwed yourself and must consistently play catch-up from then on. So moral of the story: start work early/early-ish.</p>

<p>Also as a last point, yes, it is very difficult to transfer into SCS.</p>

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<p>CS majors at CMU are actually ** required ** to add a minor to their bachelor’s degree and some of them choose to minor in a non-STEM field like modern languages or music for example. There is room in the sample schedule for minor-related classes specifically. </p>

<p>Also, playing a little bit the role of the contrarian here, I don’t think CMU’s CS curriculum is particularly heavy on (pure) math. Many of the required Math classes in the sample curriculum, e.g. the introductory Calculus classes like 21-120 and 21-122, can actually be substituted for AP credit and there are no requirements for example to add a course on differential equations, multivariable calculus, real analysis, or (pure-math-oriented) modern algebra. Many CS students do a math minor though to enhance their math education beyond the minimum SCS requirements.</p>

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<p>He’s already done math through multivariable calculus, so it would just be the other math courses. I know that there are is SOME room for a minor and other courses, but it doesn’t seem like much.</p>

<p>If he’s in IS instead of CS, would he then be able to learn game design and 3D mod, or does he need to go through SCS for that?</p>

<p>He’s very good in math and science, so I don’t think he’ll have trouble doing well in those courses, but we were told that although it is difficult to get into SCS it is very doable as long as they have space. Now you’re telling me that’s not really the case?</p>

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<p>My son was told that he’d just need to get a decent grade in a couple of specific courses to transfer into SCS, after talking to the dean. The thing is, even if for some reason he cannot transfer into SCS, he can always, always double major. No permission required. You do not need to transfer into SCS to get a double major in computer science. No employer is going to care or even ask if you were ever accepted into SCS. There are several majors that are very compatible to double major with SCS that you don’t have to take too many extra courses for. Such as logic and computation, math. There are a number of people with double majors in IS or ECE (ouch).</p>

<p>My son, who started out double major logic and computation/CS, quickly switched to econ, then econ/CS, then econ/CS minor planning on getting a masters in IS, then who knows what next year…said that if he was to do it all again, he would have done IS. Much less rigorous, less math (which is the killer for many people, very tough math classes), but great job opportunities in the tech field. I don’t know why he’d have to be in SCS to take CS classes. Might get him priority, but if he has the prerequisites, anyone know of a reason why not?</p>

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<p>It’s funny that you mention the double major and minor because we were just discussing that very same thing last night. He’s very strong in math and science - the problem is that he’s also very interested in creative writing and social sciences (history, philosophy, psychology, etc.). I don’t think he’d like IS because he’s more interested in the creative side of computers - game design, virtual reality, etc. But you just never know where they’ll end up, do you?</p>

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<p>Yes, it is hard to tell where they’ll end up. I’d think there would be some double majors in H&SS that could easily go with a major in CS. Then he could follow both of his passions. Why get a double major in math if it’s really not your desire to take extra classes in that, when you can do it in something you love. There are a huge number of kids at CMU that double major, so I’m sure it’s probably because there is so much flexibility in course choice. My son probably could have finished an econ major/cs minor in 3 years (and he brought in little AP credit), if he wasn’t spending more time on extracurriculars than school work. Hey, I had no use for that extra 54K anyways, right? Actually, it is okay, I want him to have a great college experience, do the things he wants to and not cram it all in to a short time period. You never know what things will lead them to their careers, anyways, I guess.</p>

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<p>We spoke to an admissions person who said that doing a double major with cs in something that is not related to cs would be difficult because there would be no overlapping requirements, so he may end up majoring in creative writing or psych or something and minoring in cs and joining something like the gaming club. His ultimate goal is to attend ETC.</p>

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<p>Don’t overlook how difficult the math courses will be. I don’t want to come off as a dick, but it is very unlikely that he is strong enough in math to do well in 15-251 (the course everyone is referring to when they say the math is hard) without putting in over 20 hours a week for the single course. </p>

<p>That said, he would probably be fine. But this will be at the expense of good grades, or having time for other stuff.</p>

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<p>Sounds like his AP chem class! The teacher worked them like dogs, but they all got 5’s. </p>

<p>I’ve heard that class mentioned before as being killer. How are the other classes then?</p>

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<p>“Sounds like his AP chem class! The teacher worked them like dogs, but they all got 5’s.”</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this class sounds like the payoff is if you do well enough is to get a C. Otherwise you flunk it and repeat it, or change majors. Though I’m sure there are some brainiacs that manage to do better. Seems like the very best thing one can do is make sure they take this class with a very light load. Of course, a good thing is that CMU allows kids to drop classes very late in the process, so if one realized they were flunking they could drop, and the retake should be easier. Then again, it could be hard for someone to find time in their schedule for that.</p>