The truth (according to me anyway)

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>Background info
Cal Class of '08; Male
From a competitive, very highly ranked public high school in the Bay Area
Waitlisted and eventually rejected from my top two college choices
Was unhappy about attending Berkeley in the beginning, but I am fairly happy here now</p>

<p>As I came here for assistance last year, I thought I should try to help any of the '09 students that had questions - go ahead and ask questions, and I’ll try to answer.</p>

<p>I’ll start of the thread by writing about a few dominant topics that I’ve seen a lot while scanning the board recently.</p>

<p>Are Cal students inferior to those attending elite privates?
Both yes and no. As Berkeley has made a committment to accepting as many CA hs grads and JC transfers as possible, there are quite a few students here that have no real academic interests, are not terribly intelligent, and add nothing to the intellectual life of the campus. I think it was a mistake to accept them, and they do drag down the quality of the university.
However, what most people need to realize that for many California students, the ‘real’ rankings are Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and then Berkeley. By that I mean students do not consider it worth it to attend a private university unless they get into the very top 3 or 4. At my high school (which was a very, very high achieving high school), the top students applied to just one or two privates and the UCs (applications are damn expensive). As usual, just a few of those top students were accepted to their top choices - and by no means were they the clear cut cream of the crop. There were plenty of high GPA, high SAT, extracirricular laden, great students who did not get into MIT, Stanford, Harvard, etc. I’m sure that you have all realized by now there is a degree of randomness in college selection - not every qualified applicant can get into their top choices, and students who look damn near equivalent can have very different results. In my opinion (and don’t think I’m speaking from bitterness, because I’m pretty far removed from the admissions process and really don’t care anymore), the students that ended up at Berkeley and UCLA were just as talented as the students who went to top private schools. While I realize that this is anecdotal evidence from my very unusual high school, I’ve met plenty of Berkeley students who are incredibly gifted, motivated, and will go on to do great things.<br>
Do NOT worry about a lack of intelligent, academically-motivated at Cal - there are plenty, and they are every bit as capable as Stanford students.</p>

<p>More to come later (have a midterm tomorrow).</p>

2

<p>thank you very much iwantcollege, what major are you pursuing?</p>

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<p>I'm currently in L&S undeclared. I've taken most of the prereqs for 4 majors: Business Ad, Political Science, Economcs, and Political Economy of Industrialized Societies.
Truthfully, I have no idea what to choose - I currently plan on attending law school afterwards. I'm going to apply for Haas next semester, but will also take some upper div courses for all 4 majors in the next year to try to see what I want to do.</p>

<p>I probably know the most about social sciences at Cal, but I have close friends who are in the Colleges of Chemistry and Engineering, as well as several who are pre-med (most are intended MCB).</p>

4

<p>Does Berkeley have some sort of "Honors" program?</p>

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<p>I think that it would be ridiculous if Cal (which is trying - and succeeding on some levels - to compete with the top universities in the world) had an Honors program. Ideally, each and every class would be an Honors program type class, but in reality, there are some that are far more rigorous and intellectually stimulating than others.</p>

<p>However, I think that every major has an "Honors" component, where if you take certain seminars and have above a cutoff GPA, you get an honors distinction on your diploma.</p>

<p>Other than that there is:</p>

<p>The Regents program (more of a scholarship, extra perks type deal)</p>

<p>Freshman/ Sophomore Seminars - not really Honors in anyway, but might get the same result as an Honors College at another big university as it allows you to take a small class with a respected professor on some very interesting topics</p>

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<p>Hm, well I figured that since Princeton, Swarthmore, and other similar schools have an Honors program, Berkeley would too.</p>

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<p>Yes, but it doesn't crop up until the very end. Usually, they are in individual majors and you have to be pretty exceptional (3.3-3.8 minimums), what this means, depends on the major. My two majors, German (requires 3.3 overall, and 3.5 in the major), and American Studies requires a (3.5 overall, and 3.8 in the major) to get honors in that. There is no real "honors" track to speak of, there are a few classes that claim to be Honors, but really, they are simply more intense and fast-paced than the regular courses if they appear in the lower divs. </p>

<p>My opinion, though, is pretty much getting into Cal, is the Honors Track. You are going to the best public university in the world. That is an honor enough, and if you can graduate with Honors here, then you are in exceptional shape. However, if you walk down this road -- prepare to collude and clash with the greatest minds this place has to offer.</p>

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<p>Are we lower than Ivies? We are lower in that:</p>

<p>A) We don't have as much money to give such a crazy staff:student ratio.
B) We aren't as rich to have such a cool campus
C) We have such a big school
D) We give out low GPAs cuz we don't inflate like those ivies
E) YOu might not receive as much individual attention</p>

<p>I think what boosts us is that we have so many smart ppl that we come out pretty well. We have a great program but don't expect it to be MIT great or anything. We'll have the top notch public school stuff, but we can't ever match the care that private schools give you. I guess thats just the difference.</p>

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<p>andrew, I'm thinking about going into American Studies as opposed to my proposed/"accepted" major of History. Can you tell me some basics about the program? I have looked at the class list and it looks awesome. :)</p>

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<p>gem:
American Studies is an interdisciplinary field studies major that pretty much allows to create your own emphasis. Although my emphasis started as Consumerism in America, I switched to "Rise of the American Empire". You get to study a particular facet of American history, culture, and sociology and get a healthy mix of everything. We have the #1 AS department in the country and the professors are absolutely brilliant. This semester, I am taking a class with Mark Brilliant (no joke, his name is Brilliant), and he is by far, one of the best instructors I have had the pleasure to learn under -- unfortunately, I don't think I do the class justice. Being a bit on the conservative side and I don't always finish all the readings on time. Taking 18 units sucks... but definitely, you will be inspired by Vizenor's lectures of the atrocities comitted against the American Indian and the migrants of American history and the legacy of Genocide, by Moran's diatribes over consumerism and the base of American greed and its unfortunate necessity -- Hutson's amazing interpretations and theses on the development of American literature and culture, as well as Palmers analyses of the developments of American pop culture. Take American Studies 101 with her. The class is "Narratives of Apocalypse", it is my ALL-TIME favorite class at Cal.</p>

<p>Despite what people might say, AS is NOT a fluff major. It is taken very seriously, but unlike many others, it is not difficult even though it is becoming increasingly impacted. There are a couple of duds, but they are few and far between and they aren't even that bad. They are in fact, often better than average, they just do not reach the exceptional level of the professors I just mentioned. (Kathy Moran has won a NUMBER of best professor awards by popular choice in the Daily Cal.) </p>

<p>It was great for me because I couldn't decide what to do and it was a perfect fit.</p>

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<p>Well, andrewtx, you may choose to AS a fluff major or not. That's your choice. </p>

<p>However, I think you must concede that that there a lot of students who major in AS not because they are actually interested in the subject, but because, let's face it, the classes aren't that hard to pass. Come on, andrewtx, you know it and I know it. This is why AS is often times considered to be one of the 'football' majors. Yes, there are some AS students, like yourself, who really are in there because they truly like the material. But I think we can all agree that there are many other students who are in those classes just because the classes are relatively easy. You know who I'm talking about. The guys who rarely show up to class, when they do show up, they don't know what's going on, they don't want to know what's going on, they don't really study, they try to do as little work as possible, and yet the profs still pass them. Come on andrewtx, we've all seen those students. And the fact is, as long as AS continues to give passing grades to people like that, then it will always attract a substantial cohort of those people.</p>

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<p>Of course, but it is growingly increasingly impacted because the number of people genuinely interested are growing. It'll turn around soon. Once its competitive and no longer easy and they aren't strapping for majors to fill classes and slots, the grading will get harder. Give it time.</p>

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<p>Sakky, can you tell me what the majors that you call "fluff majors" are?
It seems that you think that all engineering/hard sciences/math courses are much more difficult than the humanities courses here at Berkeley. Of course, I have not even completed my second semester, so my viewpoint is very limited, but that has not been my experience.
I have taken Math 53 (multivariable), CS3 (intro compsci), and am currently taking Math 54 (linear algebra). All of these classes have had FAR less work than a history course that I took last semester, which fell under the International and Area Studies (anything with Studies is viewed as a "fake" major from what I have read). This class easily had 200+ pages of reading a week, required students to give original analysis of historical events, and connect complex historical themes and processes - all in an introductory, survey course! There were plenty of students who didn't take this class seriously - but they sure as hell didn't get A's. Maybe simply passing a social sciences/humanities course is easier than passing a hard sciences course, but getting an A (which I'm assuming most students want) is just as hard.</p>

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<p>Also, which majors ( in all of Berkeley's various colleges ) would you consider the most challenging? What about majors that you believe are well run ?</p>

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<p>iwantcollege: i was thinking of taking computer science next year..is it hard? How much work is it? What's involved in it?</p>

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<p>curly: CS, like all majors, is what you make of it. It is known to be very difficult and have a die-hard contigent which is the reason for the showers (and supposedly cots) in Soda Hall. But from what I heard, it is very well worth it.</p>

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<p>does sakky actually go to berkeley? he should transfer</p>

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<p>thank you andrewtdx, you have just added to my excitement about the American Studies Program, I think it will suit me better than a traditional History Major, but I will see how my first two years go at Cal :)
~I am familiar with the stigma "Studies" majors have been associated with, and quite frankly, I couldn't care less. I will get what I want out of my classes, regardless of what everyone else works towards. I am certainly not trying to take the "easy way out" by any means, that's just not my style ;)</p>

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<p>Iwantcollege, why don't you go take actual engineering courses. I recommend, say, ChemE140. Or perhaps CS61B. Then come back here and tell me that engineering is easy.</p>

<p>Look, seriously, you can just ask around Berkeley. Ask Berkeley students that you see what they think the hardest majors are, and what are the easiest. You shouuld generally find a consensus opinion that engineering is extremely difficult, natural sciences tend to be quite difficult, and that certain majors keep coming up time and time again as 'easy'. I am not the one saying this. This is a consensus opinion within the Berkeley student body. Some majors are understood to be extremely difficult. Some are easy. </p>

<p>It's not just about the work that is assigned. It's about whether not doing the work will actually affect your grade. Classes can assign whatever they want. But that doesn't matter unless not doing the work will actually hurt your grade.</p>

<p>Let me give you an example. I knew a guy who took a Legal Studies class (yep, one of the 'Studies' majors). Yes, it assigned a lot of reading. But he didn't do any of the reading. He also hardly ever went to class. The class only had 2 deliverables - basically a midterm paper and a final paper. Instead of doing the reading, what he basically did was, a few nights before the papers were due, he went to Amazon and other online bookstores, read all those user reviews of those books, and basically just reformulated those reviews in his own words. He ended up with an A-. </p>

<p>Or consider another guy I know who took a foreign languages class. First of all, he was already fluent in the language, so it was pretty easy for him. The class had a final paper that was due on a Friday, for which you had to read a book and write about it. He picked up the book for the first time on Sunday. No, not the Sunday before the paper was due. No - the Sunday AFTER the paper was due. That's right - 2 days after the paper for the book was already due, that's when he started reading the book for the first time. Neither did he ask for an extension of the paper. He ended up turning in the paper on Tuesday, and he got an A- on that paper and as a final grade in the class. He would have gotten an A, it's just that the paper was late. </p>

<p>The point is, it's not just about assigning work, it's about what happens if you don't do the work. In certain instances, the prof won't know that you didn't do the work (i.e. the guy who never read any of the books and just pulled stuff from Amazon). In other instances, the prof may know, but the penalty is light. </p>

<p>You ask me which undergrad majors I believe are well run? Here is a short list. EECS. Chemical Engineering. Bus Ad at the Haas School. Physics. Architecture. That's not an exhaustive list. </p>

<p>Now, see to iwantcollege and geminihop, I take it that you are 2 people who are quite serious about American Studies. Hence, I would say that it is precisely people like you who should be the most annoyed about the 'slacker' stigma of the major. Like it or not, that major has a stigma. So it is people like you who should want the major to be reformed to eliminate the low-quality, lazy students. Those lazy students make everybody in the major look bad. If the major were to eliminate those students, or convince them to start working hard, then the image of the major would improve dramatically. Like it or not, everybody is judged by the company they keep, and if you enter a major that is infamous for having a lot of lazy slackers, then people are going to think that you are also a lazy slacker. That may not be fair, but that's reality. The only way to permanently change that perception is to not have students in those majors that are conspicuously lazy. As long as those students are in that major, people are always going to associate that major with slacking. You may not like it, but that's life.</p>

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<p>Sakky, there are easy majors for athletes at many schools. Does Duke have easy majors?
Doesn't Williams have classes that are easier than others and where the athletes are more likely to partake in?</p>