<p>^ If you’re going to toss in single subjects, then Pitt for philosophy, PSU for meteorology, OSU for accounting, & UCincy for music, musical theatre, and architecture as well (and add statistics to UDub & physics, chemistry, and psychology to UIUC too).</p>
<p>Though some of the ones you listed in your post weren’t top 10.</p>
<p>When you give the OOS statistics, are you breaking them down by undergrad vs. graduate? I went to Michigan out of state for grad school, and practically everyone in my grad program was OOS, if not a foreign student – I suspect that any university which has world class graduate programs is going to find that its numbers indicate a high percentage of OOS students. However, that says nothing about what’s going on at the undergraduate level.</p>
<p>“In the state of Iowa, from the students scoring 30 and above on the ACT (which most Iowa students take)… more go to Iowa State than any other university. U Iowa is second, the rest are not even close.”</p>
<p>Right, but that’s also because it’s a big state school. Wouldn’t more students in ANY state go to (insert own large state flagship) than any other school? At least in the Midwest. </p>
<p>“Back to something else… Bama is now 60% OOS?! Yowza. I thought Michigan’s 40-45/55-60 split was bad. I couldn’t imagine a state school having significantly more OOS students than IS students!” </p>
<p>This is just a result of the different business models the schools follow. Bama is 60% OOS because of how they price and market their product and use their aid budget – merit aid, relatively high IS price, reasonable net OOS price, and a brand (football!, fraternities!) that gets attention and applications from the broader region/country. Vermont, Michigan, UVA, Iowa, Colorado, Purdue, Indiana, Penn State, Clemson are some other schools that go big for OOS undergrad students (increasingly foreign students).</p>
<p>Other state schools have a different model. Michigan and Colorado are 45% OOS. Michigan State is 9% and Colorado State is 18%. All good schools, but clearly they are playing two different games.</p>
<p>“I repeat again, when did it become an entitlement to “go away” to college.” </p>
<p>GMT – I could not agree more!! I myself was a strong student from a blue collar family. I lived at home, commuted, worked all the way through and had a partial tuition scholarship. I got a fantastic education that got me into a top flight professional school. The cost of my college education was extremely low but my social life sucked. I made up for that in grad school!</p>
<p>Where I grew up, only rich kids went away for four years. Most kids stayed home and went to a local CC or local 4 year college. Frankly we’d all be paying a lot less (as parent and taxpayers) if the higher ed model (other than kids of hedge fund managers) was that everyone does two years at home (CC, local college or trade education); basically free 13th and 14th grade for all. Then, two years away at university for those for whom that makes sense.</p>
<p>It is stupid and expensive to send all kids to 4 year colleges. Our higher ed system leads the world (by far) in producing college drop outs. Less than half the kids starting college ever get a degree!! What a spectacular waste of time, money, potential and effort.</p>
<p>Of course every school has one program that they are most known for, but outside of that, the quality of schooling is much lower. Slippery Rock University has an accredited Sport Management program. That hardly makes it a good, or desire able school.</p>
<p>FYI, state populations as a percentage of US total.<br>
No surprise that the most populous states tend to be the ones w the best public universities. They’re the states w the large tax base and large applicant pool. The top 15 most populous states (CA to IN) comprise 2/3 the US population.</p>
<p>12.1% California
8.1% Texas
6.3% New York
6.1% Florida
4.2% Illinois
4.1% Pennsylvania
3.7% Ohio
3.2% Michigan
3.1% Georgia
3.1% North Carolina
2.8% New Jersey
2.6% Virginia
2.2% Washington
2.1% Massachusetts
2.1% Indiana
2.1% Arizona
2.1% Tennessee
1.9% Missouri
1.9% Maryland
1.8% Wisconsin
1.7% Minnesota
1.6% Colorado
1.5% Alabama
1.5% South Carolina
1.5% Louisiana
1.4% Kentucky
1.2% Oregon
1.2% Oklahoma
1.2% Connecticut
1.0% Iowa
1.0% Mississippi
0.9% Arkansas
0.9% Kansas
0.9% Utah
0.9% Nevada
0.7% New Mexico
0.6% West Virginia
0.6% Nebraska
0.5% Idaho
0.4% Hawaii
0.4% Maine
0.4% New Hampshire
0.3% Rhode Island
0.3% Montana
0.3% Delaware
0.3% South Dakota
0.2% Alaska
0.2% North Dakota
0.2% Vermont
0.2% Washington, D. C.
0.2% Wyoming</p>
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</p>
<p>That is still largely true today. Most college students attend community colleges or local universities. It is mainly those from wealthier families or those with top-end academic credentials (i.e. those who can get scholarships or get into schools with good financial aid) who have the option to go away to college.</p>
<p>The so-called “entitlement to go away to college” that may appear to exist on these forums may be due to the self-selection effect of the people posting here (mostly high income families with students aspiring to something other than attending the community college or local university).</p>
<p>Just as a test I took a look at the course listing for the English Department at the University of South Dakota, hardly a state flagship that anyone thinks of as one of the gems of public education. Anyone who can’t get a first-class education there isn’t trying hard enough. That’s not to say.there aren’t plenty of reasons someone who wants to study English might not be better off at Yale - or that the offerings might not be a lot slimmer in the math department – but the idea that most flagship state universities (and probably plenty of non-flagships as well) can’t provide most students with a great education is just silly.</p>
<p>By the way, I checked Slippery Rock’s course offerings too, since it came up. There’s certainly more of a drop-off there in terms of the variety of courses available - a lot more surveys and fewer in-depth studies – and I’m not wild about the apparent rigidity of the requirements. But even there, you are going to come out with a solid background, and most good students from “donut hole” families can probably manage to find affordable options better than Slippery Rock.</p>
<p>Just by attending college, students set themselves apart.
Just over half (56%) of students 16-24 are enrolled in high school or college.
16.8 million young people, 16-24 were * not* enrolled in school, in October 2013.
No need to then pile on debt to be in the * crème de la crème*, like Miss Jean Brodie’s girls.
:)</p>
<p>Emerald – the stats say the opposite.</p>
<p>There’s significant tangible benefit (like higher lifetime earnings) that correlates to getting a college degree. You don’t get nearly as much benefit from attending 4 year college and then dropping out. Those kids (and there’s many millions of them) don’t do much better than the kids who never attended. They’d be better off just getting an associates degree or skipping higher ed altogether. </p>
<p>In today’s economy, kids need more education for sure. But that does not mean that we should be sending so much money and so many kids to 4 year residential colleges. Doing that is masively expensive and ineffective. </p>
<p>@emeraldkity4 #332</p>
<p>So, you can’t “just pay for what your student will use” and attend full-time. The question is, why not? The per-student cost of new recreation facilities can seem trivial when spread across a very large student body. However, these facilities would be overwhelmed if the entire population tapped for funding were actually using the available resources.</p>
<p>@AnnieBeats #347
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-income-ladder-location-matters.html”>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-income-ladder-location-matters.html</a></p>
<p>What do you notice about WY, MT, NE, ND, UT, etc. compared to NC, MI, GA, FL, VA?</p>
<p>@AnnieBeats #354
Would you mind listing the top 21 public schools? Then you can explain the specific differences between #20 and #21 that cause a “huge drop in quality”.</p>
<p>@skrlvr #355
Based on FCRA or fair-value estimates?</p>
<p>@northwesty @emeraldkity4 The points you are making remind me of a documentary I saw a while back. I don’t agree with the points they make, but I think you two would be interested in seeing it 
It’s on YouTube and it is called ‘The College Conspiracy Documentary’</p>
<p>@noimagination After 20 or so**</p>
<p>@AnnieBeats #373</p>
<p>Ok, we don’t need to stick with 20. Can’t you give us the last in / first out schools? March Madness in August. If there is really a “huge drop in quality” you should have no trouble making this comparison…</p>
<p>Looks like you’ve got roughly 60% of the population with “good” state flagships (just pulling from the top):</p>
<p>12.1% California
8.1% Texas
6.3% New York
6.1% Florida
4.2% Illinois
4.1% Pennsylvania
3.7% Ohio
3.2% Michigan
3.1% Georgia
3.1% North Carolina
2.8% New Jersey
2.6% Virginia
2.2% Washington</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl Graduating seniors can’t all go to the same school. </p>
<p>Good flagships, yes, but not all well priced. Pennsylvania’s and Illinois’s flagship universities are among the top 4 most expensive flagships for in-state students (along with Vermont and New Hampshire).</p>
<p>Penn State, in-state, costs in real dollars about what Harvard cost when I was in high school.</p>
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</p>
<p>Which is a good thing, since all graduating seniors should not go to college. :)</p>
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<p>Well over 75% of the state’s population (and it’s probably much higher) live within an easy commuting distance of Pitt or a Penn State Satellite Campus. Half our state’s population live within the five county Philadelphia area where we have 3 satellites. Commuting at least the first two years can cut that cost a good bit. </p>
<p>I’m not saying there aren’t people who can’t afford our flagships, but the situation in Pennsylvania is not as dire as it’s often portrayed here on CC or in the media. </p>