<p>Exactly right half empty! Here’s the best deal (at full price) in the country (at my alma mater). </p>
<p>Two years of CC in Virginia while living at home. Tuition room and board is $8k total. If you get a 3.4 GPA or above, you get guaranteed admission to UVA. Two years of TRB at UVA in-state runs $40k. For $48k (so assuming zero aid) you get the exact same degree from one of the best universities around that other in-staters paid $80k for and other OOS-ers paid $200k for!</p>
<p>I don’t know the articulation agreements here in IL between comm college and UIUC, but anecdotally it’s relatively common to go to comm college for 2 years and then go to UIUC. You have the same name on your diploma either way. </p>
<p>@Anniebeats - Slippery Rock is decent enough. Here on the other side of the state, we’ve got West Chester University. It’s very well respected in the Philadelphia area and probably the most competitive of the actual Pennsylvania state universities (as opposed to the big 3 state subsidized). WCU doesn’t have a national reputation, but I suspect most of its graduates expect to get their first jobs in Pennsylvania or Delaware anyway. </p>
<p>In state kids whose stats are above the typical WCU student’s can get a discount at Temple. For example, 1300 SAT/3.4 GPA kids will only pay 6k in tuition at Temple for the entire year - that’s cheaper than WCU or Slippery Rock. Room and board is extra.</p>
<p>One other point I want to make. As college tuitions go up, the prestige of state schools is going up right along with them. A few years ago, WCU was an easy in for almost any student. These days, average students can no longer consider it a given that they will be accepted and need to make sure they’ve also got lesser in state options on their list. </p>
<p>Emerald – the stats say the opposite.</p>
<p>Im using data from Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Heres the link.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.nr0.htm”>http://www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.nr0.htm</a></p>
<p>
The honors college concept is very appealing:
<p>With all these advantages, I struggle to understand the appeal of paying full-freight for a small, pricey LAC. Before my eldest became a HS sophomore, I never heard of Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Wesleyan, and I am from/educated in the Northeast.</p>
<p>@GMTplus7:</p>
<p>The top LACs hold plenty of appeal if you’re mid-6-figures or higher or lower-middle-class or lower. That’s what? The majority of the kids at those places now? Personally, I think a good number of them are impressive (whether most of them are worth shelling out 250K for to me is another question).</p>
<p>The interesting thing about the public honors colleges is that they’ll be filled with kids from mostly the same social strata: middle/upper-middle class. Will be interesting to see how all those grads turn out 20 years from now.</p>
<p>
I said paying full-freight; lower-middle-class or lower don’t pay full-freight.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>None of my relatives nor I attended an LAC, but I have been surprisingly impressed with those I have seen. Holy Cross for example is mentioned a lot on this site (and the Trinities etc. and University of Dallas) and various wonderful more competitive LACs in the North East. Not something any of my kids have considered but I can clearly see the appeal (for those who can afford it, or get good aid, and enjoy the campus culture). I know plenty of my son’s friends, who got in to the flagships but really, really, really did not want to go to the enormous in-state flagships (apparently 50,000 students was too big - which I can understand for some) - and multiple chose LACs (even though for most it was slightly more expensive after aid). Tough decision - but I can see the appeal.</p>
<p>
Hence the appeal of honors colleges w/in state flagships.</p>
<p>I have one at an LAC, one at a uni, similarly ranked and to be honest I’m more impressed by the opps at the uni. </p>
<p>" Before my eldest became a HS sophomore, I never heard of Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Wesleyan, and I am from/educated in the Northeast."</p>
<p>It is so funny you picked this group of schools. My uncle and cousin went to Williams, other cousin to Bowdoin before transferring to Wesleyan, my sister to Middlebury and my father to UMass (so I’d been to Amherst). I grew up in Wisconsin.</p>
<p>@GMTplus7: are you and your son looking at honor program/Colleges? Which ones do you like?</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl;</p>
<p>There are definitely more opportunities for a motivated/go-getter-type to take advantage of at a research university (and more high quality ones at a top university). Some kids thrive better in a smaller more intimate setting, though.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The PSU satellites are still over $13,000 in tuition alone per year for lower division students, which is more expensive than community colleges, which seem to be unusually expensive in Pennsylvania, up to $6,000 per year in tuition alone.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If I use <a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/search/college/college_search_tmpl.jhtml”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/search/college/college_search_tmpl.jhtml</a> to search for public colleges with student loan debt > $35,000 (i.e. highest debt schools), ten of the nineteen that come up are in Pennsylvania.</p>
<p>Honors programs can vary a lot. At one end, there are smallish, ‘boutique’ like programs that have a special curriculum. Often, there are additional applications requirements (interview, essay, etc) in addition to a GPA and SAT/ACT cut-off. Students gets the usual perks–special housing, special research opportunities, etc. These are very expensive for a university to run, but they give a very intimate experience. These often give a ‘school within a school’ feel.</p>
<p>At the other end, there are very large honors colleges where everyone with a certain GPA and SAT/ACT cut-off is admitted. Students are expected to take a certain number of honors designated courses (often a small percentage of their overall courseload) but there really isn’t a special honors curriculum. Students get the usual perks like honors dorms, priority registration, etc. These programs are much less expensive to run, and are not as intimate as the above.</p>
<p>Some schools have both types of programs. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I fail to see the correlation between whether these schools are worth the cost and whether you had ever heard of them.</p>
<p>Just based on anecdotal evidence - for middle class people in the Philly suburbs, Temple usually seems a better deal than commuting to either PSU Brandywine or PSU Abington for a 2+2 to later transfer to PSU main.</p>
<p>
Which universities have this kind of honors programs? How much of the difference in tuition fees is there between the best honors program attended as OOS and a top LAC? </p>
<p>
For those of us for whom a quarter of a million dollars, net, is not chump change, it is hard to justify paying pay-freight for a college without wide name-recognition to open doors. Like I said, I grew up on the east coast, went to undergrad on the east coast, went to grad school on the east coast, and before last year I would have said “Bowdoin who?” </p>
<p>I’m sure Bowdoin offers an outstanding education and a nurturing setting for junior to “find himself”, but he can get an outstanding education and a nurturing setting to “find himself” at many other “lower tier” schools that won’t charge full freight $65k and where he won’t get polite, blank looks from employers outside the geographic area when they read the name of the school on his CV. </p>
<p>I went to a reach private school w/o wide name-recognition like Bowdoin for my undergrad, then on to a state flagship research univ for grad school. When I mention the name of both schools to professional colleagues & potential employers, I get more mileage out of state-U.</p>
<p>@GMTplus7
</p>
<p>Something doesn’t add up here. How could you have gone to a reach LAC and not have heard of Bowdoin? I’ll wager it was in an era before all of this ranking craziness.</p>