No, it’s usually a minimum bar. Meet the minimum and you’re considered. This is the same at colleges and workplaces.
Certainly not at workplaces I am familiar with! For certain jobs that might be true. For example if you’re applying for a checkout clerk job at the supermarket they don’t care where you are on the scale. If other jobs, where you’re on the scale does matter.
My guess is you don’t have a lot of experiences. The bar is not always set low as per a checkout clerk. It can be set really high, but rarely is there only “one” candidate who passes the bar. There may be three who made it to final consideration, but employers still pick the best of the three based upon their individual whims.
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Could be, for the jobs you’re familiar with. For other kinds of jobs you’re lucky if you can find one candidate who can do the job. That’s why employment-based immigrant visas are popular in some industries.
If you find just one, it’s not an issue with who gets the job, right?
I do agree, to a point with, the differentiation between public and private colleges and universities. I feel like particularly this year there’s been a lot of conversation on CC for example in connection with the UCs that there should be greater emphasis on taking students from California because California taxpayers they are paying for those schools. However, in reality, that may be only partly accurate since many OOS students supplement the budgets by paying very large sums to attend and that helps pay for instate students to attend. I’d guess that’s true for many public universities.
I also think that what the author wants is something that is discussed annually after each admission cycle….more transparency from colleges and less guesswork on the part of the student. I think if you look at the admissions process in the UK for example it probably approaches what the author would prefer for the US. However I’m sure if you spoke to students applying to UK universities they would, at least to some degree, voice similar dissatisfaction with the process.
As far as employment goes, I think it does depend on the industry. There are definitely minimum requirements to be met when applying for a job. But there are often many qualified candidates that apply and the person chosen for the job may possess and/or display other qualities that put them over the finish line. In particular how they are perceived by the interviewers and how well they will contribute and or fit in to the corporate culture. Those are “holistic” qualities apart from the technical job requirements. In some fields, fulfilling the job qualifications is the first hurdle, but sealing the deal comes down to personality and fit…not dissimilar to college admissions.
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I matters if the employer is the Lakers or the LAPhil.
Employers get to decide what they need, and how to best identify those who fit that need. Applicants don’t. Same goes for colleges.
No. It depends on what the employer/college is looking for. It is the whole package, which is difficult to put on a scale. For example, a law firm isn’t just going to line up applicants according to grades and bar score (not even available) and take the highest scorers. It is going to try to identify bright applicants who not only have the potential to do the work, but also to successfully interact with peers, clients, opposing counsel, staff support, etc.
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I matters if the employer is the Lakers or the LAPhil.
If the employer is Lakers then basketball is not an EC, same with LAPhil, playing the violin is not an EC.
It is going to try to identify bright applicants who not only have the potential to do the work, but also to successfully interact with peers, clients, opposing counsel, staff support, etc.
But successfully interacting with clients, counsel etc. is part of the job in this example.
More transparency and predictability, certainly from public universities. How else can students be in control of their own destiny through hard work? Especially if there is only one good public university in your state, that university needs to have a transparent and predictable process.
But what happens when you still have too many qualified applicants based solely on stats for the number of spaces?
I agree with this part completely. A public university should admit predominantly based upon merit. The character of the applicant shouldn’t matter beyond “Was this person academically dishonest or commit a felony?”
Private schools on the other hand should be free to do whatever is allowed by the law (I believe some things that are currently allowed should not be allowed, but that’s a different conversation).
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EC’s generally aren’t valued solely because of competence in the core skill involved (e.g. violin.) They are valued because they are a way of demonstrating hard work, the willingness and ability to work with others, creativity, leadership, depth and breadth of interests, intellectual ability, commitment, time management, personality, etc. All of those may be factors that a college values in crafting their student body. Nothing “tyrannical” about it.
Yep. And it is part of the “job” for a college applicant/student to be more than just an SAT score. Colleges get to decide their mission and how to best achieve that mission. This means they choose what attributes they seek out in their applicants. It is not about
Bottom line is high scoring test takers (and their parents) place a much higher value such things than do colleges. Colleges don’t exist to allow such students to “control their own destiny through hard work.”
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Ok, I did some snooping. From your prior posts it appears that you just graduated high school and will be entering college in the fall.
In April you posted this on another thread: “I am an in-state student and my GPA and SAT scores are close to the top of the accepted student range that was published on UW website until recently, which is: High school GPA 3.93-4.00 SAT 1420-1560 I have very good ECs too. I was rejected, and appeal was quickly denied too.”
Despite the fact that you have only the type of work experience that a high school kid has, you seem to be claiming more knowledge about workplaces than posters who are considerably older than you and have much more experience in job searches and hiring. You may want to rethink that.
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I’m not disagreeing, but it seems some are also unhappy with the UCs and their not-completely-holistic review process which has led to an over representation of Asian students (as compared to % Asian population in CA). For example, UCB is comprised of around 42% Asian students, not counting internationals (for which we don’t have race/ethnicity details).
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Might I remind members of the forum rules: “College Confidential forums exist to discuss college admission and other topics of interest. It is not a place for contentious debate. If you find yourself repeating talking points, it might be time to step away and do something else… If a thread starts to get heated, it might be closed or heavily moderated.”
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/guidelines
The conversation now is just back and forth between a few users, so I am temporarily activating slow mode to (hopefully) allow other users to participate.
over representation of Asian students
This is unavoidable in a fair system, because of the immigration policies of the United States. Recent immigration from Asia is employment-based, and immigrants are required to have qualifications not commonly found in the citizens who already live in the country. As a result, Asian immigrants are likely to be smarter than the average population, and their children are too. You would expect them to be represented highly in top universities.
In the survey at https://chronicle-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/5/items/biz/pdf/Employers%20Survey.pdf , hundreds of employers rated the criteria that are most important in evaluating resumes of new grads for hiring purposes. From most least important, the rankings were as follows. EC’s ranked somewhere towards the middle of the list. Some employers clearly care about ECs for hiring purposes. Employers specifically in science and technology sector followed a generally similar pattern.
- Internships – 23
- Employment During College - 21
- College Major – 13
- Volunteer Experience – 12
- Extracurricular Activities – 10
- Relevance of Coursework – 8
- College GPA – 8
- College Reputation – 5
When asked about what skills employees need to be successful, the order was as follows. Many skills were marked as important besides just working in a team.
- Written and oral communication – 79%
- Adaptability / Managing Priorities – 67%
- Decisions / Problem Solving – 60%
- Collaborating with Others – 53%
- Planning / Organization – 48%
- Technical Skills – 47%
- Specific Knowledge – 45%
- Working with Diverse Groups – 43%
- Analytical Research Skills – 34%
- Leading Teams – 8%
While the hiring criteria and process differs between employers and selective private colleges, I think it is fair to call most of them generally holistic. Few employers hire purely through non-holistic factors such as who scores best on an exam or who has the highest GPA. Instead they consider a combination of many factors in the hiring process, including vague factors like general fit with team/organization or gut feelings about candidates.
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So I shared the account with my child, yes.
Closing thread. It was getting pointless anyway, but since account sharing violates ToS, no reason to continue.
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