The U.S. is Selling Out Taiwan

College Confidential Community
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<p>The U.S. is Selling Out Taiwan
by Auren Hoffman
art/Eachean Edmundson </p>

<p>Remember 1938?
Remember 1938?
Remember 1938?
Remember 1938?
Remember 1938? </p>

<p>In August, Taiwan President Lee told the world what everyone has known for the last 20 years -- Taiwan is a state and should have state-to-state negotiations with China. Lee said the obvious: Taiwan is not some breakaway province of China but a thriving democracy with one of the strongest economies in Asia. </p>

<p>After those remarks, China made the predicted threats of taking over Taiwan. You'd think the U.S. would support Taiwan -- which has been a strong trading partner, a strong ally, and a strong democracy. Instead, the Clinton Administration has actually blamed Taiwan (and specifically President Lee) for antagonizing China. </p>

<p>This sounds like appeasement and 1938 to me. </p>

<p>In the latest edition of Forbes, former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger penned a thought-provoking piece on the current Taiwan fiasco. He notes that over the last few years, the official U.S. policy toward China has been one of appeasement. He points out that this is extremely dangerous and makes the very pointed analogy to the Munich Pact with Hitler and Mussolini in 1938 when Britain and France sold out Czechoslovakia. </p>

<p>Weinberger contends that Clinton is today's Neville Chamberlain -- who instigated World War II because of his unwillingness to act and stand up for the free world early. </p>

<p>For the last five years we have had a policy of appeasing China where did this get us? We got massive human rights abuses, threats on friendly neighbors, trade embargoes of our goods, massive espionage within our own borders, and attempts to tamper with our elections. This is not a country that we want to appease. </p>

<p>For once the U.S. should act with moral discipline and support what's right -- even at the cost of making China angry. We should give our full, 100% support to the Taiwanese people and guarantee their security. If we can protect the Kosovars or the Kuwaitis, we can help protect Taiwan (which happens to be a huge trading partner of the U.S.). </p>

<p>SUMMATION: Don't repeat 1938. Don't sell out Taiwan. </p>

<p>Email your feedback on this article to <a href="mailto:impact-press@mindspring.com">impact-press@mindspring.com</a>.</p>

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<p>i heard/read/know lots of stuffs about this issue. yet i wont say much since you came from Taiwan and i do not by any mean want to start a fire (another fire to be exact) here.</p>

<p>all i can say is "oh man, i thought taiwan is one island belong to china".</p>

<p>to give you my background, i came from Korea (South, if you do care) living in Florida.
i can understand what taiwan gotta say, but it's truly an extreme to compare china and nazi german.</p>

<p>I bet sooner or later CCers will have a two digits page debate/argument about this .. AGAIN.</p>

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<p>The U.S. definitely should support Taiwan 100% until the end. The U.S. helped many Latin American countries establish their independent government, because the U.S. was hoping for economic gains. Taiwan's cause is not seen as seriously, because it would offend a larger trading partner to the U.S. We should do what is right, not what the desire of wealth tell us to do.</p>

<p>According to the San Francisco Peace Treaty between Japan and the U.S. after WWII, all Taiwan needs to do is formally decare as an independent, sovereign country to be admitted to the UN as a real country. The only obstacle is China's pressure, and the only argument to back their claim of sovereignty over Taiwan is our ancestry hundreds of years ago. We can decare official independence any day, if we are guaranteed security, or there's a great possibility of losing it right after.</p>

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<p>well, there is only one china, right?</p>

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<p>China is expanding its military force soley for the purpose of taking over Taiwan. It needs to have its miliary so large that the U.S. won't dare interfere with its plans. I can only hope Taiwan has nukes that no one knows about and those nukes are aimed at China. If China makes its move, I hope the U.S. supports Taiwan in every manner possible. Taiwan and China should be re-united but only under the terms set by Taiwan which would include freedom for the people of China. Since there is no chance China will become a free country, re-unification won't happen any time soon. Until then, the U.S. should arm Taiwan to what ever extent necessary to deter those horrible Chinese.</p>

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<p>Let me start off by saying that Americans in general have a very obscured perception of China. The mere thought of comparing China to a Hitler-like totalitarian government is absurd. That said, an area should not be allowed to gain its independence simply because it wants to. In Latin America, wars for independence were sparked by dictatorships and poor economic situations. The American revolution began as a result of unfair British laws, not to mention the fact that America was not originally a part of GB, but merely a colony.</p>

<p>Taiwan has been part of China for centuries. Taiwan declaring its independence is comparable to the South seceding from the Union in the Civil War. It was not until recently that a pro-independent president was elected in Taiwan.</p>

<p>Razorsharp: China is not expanding its military force solely for the purpose of taking over Taiwan. As far as politics are concerned, Taiwan is still officially part of mainland China. There is no need to "take over". A nuke aimed at China would hit Taiwan as well. China is by all means a "free country". Again, this goes back to the common misconception that Americans have. Finally, your blatant attack on Chinese people in your last comment sums up your ignorance on this issue.</p>

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<p>Yeah I don't want to fan the flames here either, but I agree with duh that comparing Taiwan's situation to Nazi past is blowing it way out of proportion.</p>

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<p>Taiwan is much of a Nazi-led state than China will ever be. The fact that you are from Taiwan has completely obscured your view, which was already biased</p>

<p>To tell you the truth, Bush never had any thought of appeasement with China. As soon as he came to power, he concocted plans to do to China what he did to Iraq and Afghanistan (are you saying that's acceptable?).</p>

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<p>Razorsharp: I'm chinese and I really don't appreciate you calling my country, my nationality, or my people "horrible." But since I'm a nice guy, I'll leave it at that.</p>

<p>The reason why the U.S. and China are both hesitant over Taiwan (U.S. wants to flood arms, cash, etc. into Taiwan, but they're not. China wants to flood Taiwan with troops and tanks, but right now, they're not) is because both are huge trading partners with the other.</p>

<p>Even though the relations between both countries are strained over Taiwan, they remain dependent on the other for goods. If they started to fight, then U.S.-China trading would stop, and the economies would bomb out. Prices for goods that we usually get from China would skyrocket and could become less affordable because manufacturing goods in the U.S. is much more expensive. In order to compensate, the U.S. would have to jack up trading with other countries, but it still woudn't be the same because China pumps out soo many goods.</p>

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<p>"But since I'm a nice guy, I'll leave it that"</p>

<p>Actually, I take that back. Just to let you know Razorsharp, in this country, the Chinese immigrants are a huge contribution to medical and other kinds of scientific research. I work at a National Cancer Institute branch, and a good 25-30% of the scientists here are Chinese (and I live in a place where only 2% of the school students are Asian, not chinese, but asian, including koreans, vietnamese, etc.). Without us, America's scientific research would slow down dramatically. Are we so horrible? Maybe you'd appreciate it if you never got some of those vaccines that you have, or maybe if more Americans were dying from diseases that we have helped find cures to.</p>

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<p>The Chinese are not a horrible people. Many of my friends are Chinese. Although, a few of them when college-obsessed can get a bit ... well, annoying (for the lack of a better word.. okay, that's just one person), they are indeed a good people. =)</p>

<p>Gxing, comparing the South and Taiwan is like comparing Apples to Monster Trucks. Your analogy doesn't work. Perhaps American seceding from Great Britain -- that is indeed, the better analogy, minus the fighting that took place during the Revolutionary War. (And I am quite sure the Central Military Commission would love to draw guns had it the opportunity.)</p>

<p>La societe est l'union des hommes, et non pas les hommes. Society is the union of the people and not the people themselves. When a union of people decide to stand up, and split away (as we did during the American Revolution and Taiwan is doing by taking a political-ideological stance) then they are no longer part of the union they had split away from (e.g. Great Britain, and now China).</p>

<p>China is not raising its armies en masse just to invade Taiwan. China's government is not one big institution of tyranny, but it does have some elements of it severely corrupted and skewed in political perception. However, the people are a good people, and I am praying that the trend towards a more liberal China continues within the span of the next... thirty years?</p>

<p>I mean liberal as in governmentally, not ... the population.</p>

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<p>Gxing, Taiwan has not been a part of China for centuries. In fact, it can be said that Taiwan was NEVER a part of China. More realistically, however, the only significant ties between the two countries are from the 20th century. Up until 400 years ago, Taiwan was inhabited by aboriginals that pretty much no one knew about. The European Age of Exploration came and various European powers held parts of Taiwan (mainly as a trading post/military base) completely independent of China. From the end of the 17th century to the end of the 19th, after the Europeans were expelled, the Chinese government had little influence over Taiwan. While the majority of the present-day Taiwanese people descend from Chinese immigrants of this era, Taiwan was NOT a part of China. China claimed it as territory but could not control it. This is a common misperception, I think, in that people say Taiwan and China were the same here because the Chinese "officially" (whatever that means) held control. The immigrants who fled to Taiwan at this time were actually people fleeing the problems of the mainland (famine, war, etc.) and these are the Taiwanese people (along with the aboriginies). Then came the Japanese era when China definitely had no influence over Taiwan. Post-WWII, when the Nationalists fled the mainland to Taiwan, is where most of the confusion comes from. Both parties, the KMT (Nationalists) and the Communists claimed that they were the rulers of China. I believe the communists' claim of Taiwan stems from the fact that they defeated the KMT and thus control all ethnic Chinese territories.</p>

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<p>China has established control over Taiwan since the beginning of the Qing Dynasty. While European powers have tried to intervene and convert the Taiwanese (who by this point are largely Chinese due to immigration), they have failed in their attempts. It is true that when the Nationalist fled to Taian, both parties claimed to rule China, but both parties were under the belief that Taiwan was part of China. The only reason that the Communist party did not march into Taiwan and unite China right then and there was because of the United States's threats. As a result, Taiwan set up its own government. However, both governments (China and Taiwan) continued to believe that China and Taiwan should be united as one. It was not until recently that a pro-independent government took control of Taiwan under Chen.</p>

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<p>Can you believe Chen went to Cornell?</p>

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<p>In order to find out whether China is horrible let's assume for the sake of argument that the Chinese way of life is adopted in American. Let's call this new country New China. </p>

<p>Since I am a very powerful person my locality in New China, I am going to start by finding out the identities of those who have criticized me on this board and have the police arrest them. I don't like to be criticized and I don't recall New China approving anyone to have access to college confidential. We strictly regulate internet access and opinions. In New China we presume persons accused of crime are guilty. Thus, those who have criticized me will spend a great deal of time in New China's prisons. Although New China's prisons are very harsh, the complainers will be greatful because they will not be executed. We save execution for those involved in protests against my government such as those who protested in New Tiananmen Square in 1989.</p>

<p>Oh, and if any of you don't like how I run things here in New China -- tough. You see, I am a member of a special party that selects members like existing members in order to run New China. We could never let the people of New China vote like they do in western countries, because the people of New China aren't capable of selecting their own leaders. We, of course, are capable. </p>

<p>I am very busy here in New China. Just yesterday, I heard a woman was pregnant with her second child. We have a strict one child policy here in New China, so I sent the police out to get this woman and force her to have an abortion. Did you know that an 8 month child looks a lot like a fully developed human? </p>

<p>International trade is important here in New China. For example, American researchers are developing new vaccines that we need. We will simply will copy those vaccines and make them ourselves. It saves us a lot of R&D expenses. We don't have to pay American companies for their intellectual property since we are New China. We have already copied most of the software of major American corporations and not paid any money for it.</p>

<p>International relations is also important here in New China. We have two enemies -- Taiwan and American. I recall with fond memories September 11, 2001 when the twin towers fell. We cheered here in New China (just like the Palestinians did) because America got what was coming to it. We are building our military forces at a rapid pace even though we don't have any enemies. We intend to take Taiwan by force. Why? Because the New China Party has decided we own Taiwan. </p>

<p>No, no, we are not horrible here in New China. We are the center of the world and I like that just fine. Please come visit New China. Just don't expect to get out unless the New China Party says you can leave.</p>

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<p>Quotations written by Razorsharp:</p>

<p>"I can only hope Taiwan has nukes that no one knows about and those nukes are aimed at China"</p>

<p>"...those horrible Chinese"</p>

<p>"In order to find out whether China is horrible..."</p>

<p>It seems that your mind has been influenced by extreme conservative propaganda. Don't even start by attacking my political beliefs, because I'm a moderate whose arms hang on the left and whose legs dangle on the right --after all, everyone likes a moderate =) haha, lol--. Another thing, it is also obvious that you have little or no real knowledge of:</p>

<p>A.) The current events occurring in China as we debate (I'll set the tone back to that of sophisticated and civilized debate, because hot-head arguments don't get anywhere, not to say you're a hothead razorsharp, maybe ur just a little too emotional at the moment).</p>

<p>B.) China's past history</p>

<p>Razorsharp, you are basing your arguments off of conservative propaganda that blasts China in every way possible. Those things that you've mentioned come from propaganda and have either been concocted or blown way out of proportion. Have you been to China? Have you lived there? Have you seen those things happen?</p>

<p>Mu uncle lives in the outskirts of Wuhan, he has 3 sons and a daughter.</p>

<p>Razorsharp also wrote:</p>

<p>"International trade is important here in New China. For example, American researchers are developing new vaccines that we need. We will simply will copy those vaccines and make them ourselves. It saves us a lot of R&D expenses. We don't have to pay American companies for their intellectual property since we are New China. We have already copied most of the software of major American corporations and not paid any money for it.</p>

<p>International relations is also important here in New China. We have two enemies -- Taiwan and American. I recall with fond memories September 11, 2001 when the twin towers fell. We cheered here in New China (just like the Palestinians did) because America got what was coming to it. We are building our military forces at a rapid pace even though we don't have any enemies. We intend to take Taiwan by force. Why? Because the New China Party has decided we own Taiwan."</p>

<p>I would like to see all of your proof for these two paragraphs (the parts that say that China steals everything, and cheered for 9-11) you wrote razorsharp. And I'd like to see real proof, no more arguments that are filled with rhetoric but no substance. Give me some substance razor.</p>

<p>Oh, I just remembered something. You said earlier that you want Taiwan's nukes pointed at China, yet in all of your arguments you only blame the government. Are you now supporting the genocide of 1.3 billion Chinese? Not to mention the other hundreds of thousands living in other countries?</p>

<p>I hope you reply to this post razor, I'm enjoying this debate. I'll post some more stuff, but right now I gotta go wash my car =). Talk to you later!</p>

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<p>Oh! I almost forgot! Before I wash my car, maybe you should look into your own country's history before criticizing that of others. I know this happened in US history, but I don't blast this country for it. Criticize? yes, but not blast.</p>

<p>Razor, look up what happened on May 4th, 1970 at Kent State. Look at what happened to some people who were organized a protest</p>

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<p>Heck, I'll even give you the internet address for this, but you can google the information and still find it. Here's one article.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>College<em>Here</em>I_Come, my family lives in Wuhan also, though not on the outskirts.</p>

<p>Razor: All your statements and accusations of China are based on gross stereotypes that are completely untrue (eg. China is a totalitarian state, China has a secret police to wipe out dissenters). I'm not even going to list them all.</p>

<p>"I recall with fond memories September 11, 2001 when the twin towers fell. We cheered here in New China (just like the Palestinians did) because America got what was coming to it."</p>

<p>What the **** are you talking about??? You are simply spewing out absurd statements reminiscent of the McCarthy era.</p>

<p>Bottom line: You are a victim of conservative propaganda, like College<em>Here</em>I_Come! said. You do not know what China is like, and your arguments are ridiculous as well as ignorant. So please, this is not a debate more than white is black. Would someone else care to talk about the original topic?</p>

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<p>Here is a tip of the iceberg:

[quote]
"Rhetoric without results is worthless," Commerce Secretary Evans says</p>

<p>Chinese leaders must "forcefully confront" the problem of widespread piracy and violations of intellectual property rights that put increasing strain on U.S.-China trade relations, Commerce Secretary Donald Evans says.</p>

<hr>

<p>Because of theft and piracy, Evans said, American companies are losing billions of dollars of sales and the reputation of American brands has been damaged. Particularly troubling, he added, is the fact that companies owned by local governments have been implicated in violations.

[/quote]

<a href="http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2005&m=January&x=20050113180002asesuark0.9782831&t=xarchives/xarchitem.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2005&m=January&x=20050113180002asesuark0.9782831&t=xarchives/xarchitem.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Beijing Produces Videos Glorifying Terrorist Attacks (9-11) on 'Arrogant' US</p>

<p>"The Chinese state propaganda machine is cashing in on the terror attacks in New York and Washington, producing books, films and video games glorifying the strikes as a humbling blow against an arrogant nation.</p>

<p>"Communist Party officials say President Jaing Zemin has obsessively watched and re-watched pictures of the aircraft crashing into the World Trade Center. In the immediate aftermath of the attacks, workers at Beijing Television worked around-the-clock to produce a documentary they called Attack America.</p>

<p>"As rescue workers pick through the rubble of the twin towers, the commentator proclaims that the city had reaped the consequences of decades of American bullying of weaker nations stating: "This is the America the whole world has wanted to see. Blood debts have been repaid in blood. America has bombed other countries and used its hegemony to deny the natural rights of others without paying the price. Who until now has dared to avenge the hurts inflicted by unaccountable Americans."

[/quote]

<a href="http://www.devvy.com/200408111738.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.devvy.com/200408111738.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And so why is China rapidly building its military force? None of you have answered that question.</p>

<p>Hope you have a clean car, College.</p>