@ShouldBeWorking I’m in a similar situation and had some long talks with DS about not just what he wanted to study but what he wanted to do, knowing of course that may change. I didn’t want to pay the extra just for the prestige but the reality is that there are a few professions where your school matters. It sounds like your DS may be leaning toward some of those. If so, paying the extra might make sense. And if it leads to a path where he may be killing it financially down the road, maybe you could consider having him pay some of it back. UM for instance has a great new data analytics program. And it’s the kind of school that will open a lot of doors. Vandy and ND will open a lot of doors too.
Make your son do the research and justify the decision. Worked well for us, I think. DS talked me into spending $200k+ on his degree with enough research to back up his choice that I’ll probably only cry myself to sleep for a few more months.
Too late for the OP but for others reading this thread there are some top 50 schools that would offer good merit aid to a student with those stats, and possibly full tuition: Northeastern, Boston University, University of Southern California etc.
Did you discuss the finances BEFORE the applications were sent? Was your son led to believe that ANY of the schools to which he got accepted would be on the table for matriculation?
My daughter was in an IB program that included 100 students per grade. She found the group to be oppressively small. She absolutely refused to apply to any small colleges because she didn’t want to have the same experience again. She ended up at Cornell (undergraduate enrollment about 14,000) and liked it just fine.
The SMU option sounds like a nice middle ground in terms of being a modest upcharge from in-state but offering enough of a qualitatively different experience that it would be money well spent. I think I’d also pony up for Stanford. As for Vandy, Duke, IDK. Has he visited? The south is very different culturally than the west. Not bad different, by any means. But a different vibe, all the same.
Look on the U Mich threads here. I have read posts about money shaking loose as the admissions and acceptance season unfolds. Perhaps some money might be forthcoming. I don’t remember the details, but some folks did get money comparatively late in the game.
I also agree that a highly ranked state school might be worth considering - it would still come in at 12-15K less than the top privates. Multiply by 4 and that’s meaningful.
Good luck and congratulations. He sounds like a great student.
@thumper1 All of the schools are still on the table. Just trying to help weed them out, as he can ultimately attend only one. The conversation has always been, acceptance is NOT a guarantee of attendance. But high cost does not eliminate a school if it can be justified.
@TomSrOfBoston He also has an application in at USC, but so far no scholarship. Extremely competitive year I’m guessing. Also not sure his mom wants him in school in “the 'hood.”
We lived in SoCal for a dozen years.
I vote for a “pros” and “cons” list. Also, how about talking to current students?
Yes, this is always a good question. I think your son has to answer for himself. Different students will feel differently. (Just like different students will like LACs vs. Large U, or city vs. rural, etc…)
FWIW-
Both of my kids are at schools where everyone was top of their class. I think they enjoy the challenge and stimulation. It was like that in HS…they took lots of AP classes to be challenged.
Once in a while, though, my D has admitted (and maybe in time my S will too), that she wonders what it would have been like to be the “big fish” at the top of her class elsewhere where the student body was more varied.
The question is does he NEED to go to a top x school? In some cases it makes a lot of sense. Academically and financially, despite the common CC refrain that no one in their right mind should ever pay sticker price for an education. Prestige and pride really shouldn’t factor into it. And there are smart kids on every campus. If he’s looking for them, he’ll find them.
I understand not wanting to pay the extra OOS burden for schools like GT, UVA, and Michigan but these schools are not at all easy to get into instate either. I think any of those 3 schools are probably worth it and still significantly less expensive than Duke and Vandy. My son was also accepted to all 3 of these. Everyone he knows who was accepted to these and we know both instate and out of state because we have family in all 3 have ACTs in the 33-35 range. Kids he knows are all challenged which I worried about. I strongly prefer the campus of UVA but that’s a personal preference. At GA Tech they have a great co-op program where students can earn a large amount of money plus build a resume before graduation. Is your son willing to do work study to go out of state? Most schools anticipate students earning around $5000 between summer work and a few hours of work at school each week.
I think it’s hard on the kid to be so vague about what you are willing to spend, but I do get it. For my kids being pushed by being surrounded by really smart, really driven kids was a good thing. My oldest needed the experience of not being the smartest kid in the room, my youngest is smart, but with slackerish tendencies. I have no regrets about the money we spent, but it doesn’t bother me to drive a fourteen year old car either.
Those are all good schools. SMU & UC Boulder have a more regional reputation, while Duke and Vandy, and also the other three state schools, have more of a national reputation. I think that is something you might want to factor into the decision-making. Where does he want to make his career? Re USC – the Trojan Family/USC Mafia thing is real (and no, I am not an alum). If he’s applied to the Marshall School of Business and gets in, it’s worth seriously considering. He will make incredible contacts there.
I think LionsMum put it well: in a sense, the choice is between an affordable school with a good regional reputation where your son will likely do extremely well, versus the expensive nationally renown schools where he’d be one of many kids doing extremely well.
I personally think there IS value in going out of state, living in a very different environment, meeting very different types of people. And I think there IS value in going to a school where you’ll have to push yourself because everyone is smart, ambitious and accomplished.
Will that investment pay off in the form of better internships and/or job offers?
I would think that schools like Duke/Vandy/Virginia/Michigan would open more doors than Boulder because they’re located in areas with more opportunities. Not that Boulder doesn’t offer opportunities. But Colorado is a relatively underpopulated state surrounded by other relatively underpopulated states. Of course there are more opportunities on the east coast or in the south.
And I say this as a Denver mom whose daughter went to the pricier east coast private than to Boulder, and whose opportunities have included jobs and grad schools in New York City, Washington DC and Boston. Doubtful any of them would have been available had she stayed in Colorado.
You are in a tough spot because he has done little visiting. All he knows is the “on paper” persona of these schools. April is a short month, you can’t get that many visits in. I personally would do some visiting in March, hopefully while schools are in session. In reality, students almost never pick schools they haven’t visited, and lots of students drop schools in April that might be their best choice because of the logistics of visiting.
What does he want to major in? Accounting, Finance???
If he goes to work for a public accounting firm, there is pretty much an office in every major city. Once you get the basic experience, you can pretty much transfer anywhere - within the US or across the globe.
With that many credits at a public university, he could double major in Accounting and Finance - a valuable combination because it would help him decide which field he preferred. Also, he could probably start on his Masters, although I think that is better to do after you have worked a few years.
Unless he wants to do heavy duty consulting, like at McKenzie, where he will be working an incredible number of hours, but gaining incredible experience, many state universities that are accredited will be good.
The key is internships and work ethic.
That being said, Stanford and Wharton will open doors that other universities will not.
Some companies only hire MBAs from prestigious universities. So you can spend less on the undergraduate and shoot for a fancy MBA.
Thank you to everyone for your insights and opinions. You’ve given me a lot to think about. For general edification, the reason we haven’t visited most of the schools was because they are so geographically diverse, it seemed difficult to schedule travel that would knock off more than one each trip off the list. I expected a few of them to cull themselves. And, besides, I didn’t want him to fall in love with a campus that ultimately rejected him.
So here we are. A relatively good problem to have, but nonetheless a difficult decision. Let the visitations begin.
If he does want to major in business, he probably should not select Michigan unless he is a pre-admit to Ross. Not sure about whether the other schools on his list admit directly to their business major, but if you can’t be sure he is in the business major I would take it off the list.
@intparent Well that’s another complication. Some schools he applied to engineering as that seemed to have better opportunities to develop a data analytics sort of path. U-M and G Tech are two of those. So, no, he is not admitted to Ross, but I think that school’s too large for him anyway. He has expressed preference for schools more in the 16,000 UG student range.
Ah… if he does not want to BE an engineer, he really should not start as an engineering major. Data analytics is really different and requires very few of the skills he will have to master in an engineering program – he should be looking at something more along CS or stats (if they don’t have a specific data analytics major).
He may have fewer good choices than you initially stated. If he wants to be a business major, he needs to make sure he has entree into the business school (Ross, Mendoza, etc) – if he didn’t apply for pre-admit or to those schools, there is no guarantee he will be able to take classes there or major (or minor) in subjects that he may want to pursue in business. It is something you should research at each school. If he wants to try CS, at some schools that is a major with restrictions,although I am not sure about the schools you have listed. It is in LS&A at Michigan (although I think switching to LS&A from Engineering isn’t too hard if he has been admitted to Engineering, going the other way can be more difficult).
And regarding student body size – 16,000 vs 20,000 UG students – so little difference. He will know a few hundred of them. Probably not a very good reason to jettison a school. CU has about 20,000 undergrads, too.
Yes, CU really made the list as he was a Boettcher Scholar semifinalist, which pays full-ride to any CO college. That ship has sailed; he did not advance to finals.
He is in at U-M for Engineering, UVa A&S CompSci, Notre Dame Mendoza Biz pre-admit, CU Engineering (Leeds Biz is not the hottest around), GA Tech Engineering, SMU Cox Biz.
So based on this, you might eliminate GT, U-M and CU? Barring acceptances from Duke, Vandy and/or Stanford, feeling it could be (in descending order of $) ND versus UVa versus SMU. Again if the ultimate destination is data science/analytics, etc.
We totally believe in paying full sticker price even if stretch for top private school that has the connections and is in an area that feeds into future jobs and he/she is going into a field with good earnings. Nothing wrong with asking student to pay half of it (or some amount) after they graduate on a schedule that works for both student and parent. Where school is located can matter - some know they want NY finance or Silicon Valley jobs etc., even though they may not be exactly there when it comes time. Agree that we would not pay private school type money for an out of state public. Intellectual match is really important factor in our house. I would be concerned if didn’t receive USC scholarship that it not only tells you how competitive USC is this year, that other schools are as well. Not to be gloom and doom, but I know plenty of kids with those stats that didn’t even get accepted into USC, Duke or Stanford, yet get scholarship money. Many kids are just learning how to test on top of those stellar GPAs, so there are a lot of students with a great score package applying. So just be sure to keep expectations real, particularly with your students, so they are not devastated when results come in. So use caution on treating one school as a “lesser school” in conversations, because that may end up being the best choice come April.
