@LucieTheLakie, I majored in mathematics and economics. I was a very poor student at Stanford … this was well before the era of Stanford “giving” you an education for free if you couldn’t pay for it, and I certainly could not write the check. I’ve also worked pretty hard to be where I am and make no apologies.
That said, I meant what I said when I said it: I understand the economic pressures faced by others; whether you are getting that or not doesn’t matter. It’s not a difficult concept. People make different choices about what they can and are willing to sacrifice to make something happen for a million different reasons.
I’m answering the question with my best thoughts on the matter. I’m not responding to what seem like genuine requests for advice/perspectives with what I think they want to hear. If you want to do that then have at it. It doesn’t make me condescending or self-serving to communicate my view. That my view lines up with actions my kids have taken (of their own free will) should not surprise you, nor should it serve to undermine the validity of my view. That whole line of argument bordered on not even making sense.
Yeah, the “southern football factory” comment was a bit self-indulgent and unnecessary. I apologize. But, I don’t hesitate a bit to admit that I’d have been disappointed if my kid had told me they would prefer to attend LSU over Pomona. I’d have advised against it, but I would have allowed/paid for it, albeit reluctantly. Why? Because I think Pomona is better. Period. So what? Do you think all these parents on this forum are sending their kids to Haverford, Wesleyan, Vassar, Dartmouth, Brown, etc. etc. just because it was a good fit for their kid? Do you actually buy that? No, it was a good fit among a category of schools that their kids were good enough to get into AND which schools they valued more than other schools their kids were good enough to get into. In other words, they think the school they chose is better than the other options. Rather than taking me to task, you ought to support my candor and honesty.
As I said, “all else being equal.” That means a lot of things. Maybe one kid is allergic to snow. Hey, don’t go to Middlebury. Maybe another kid is most comfortable being in a population where conformity is a strong value. Hey, go to a politically conservative school and avoid Wesleyan or Brown. Whatever. In this and many cases, it’s simply not economically realistic. Another externality.
Now, for the present case, at my age, I realize the value of a degree from a school like ND, and I realize that $100K, while a lot of money today, won’t seem like a huge deal later on if this kid has the kind of successful business career that he seems set up for. That’s my perspective, and you’re entitled to yours. But it doesn’t make me arrogant for Pete’s sake. Come on.
What kills me about your rancor is that you went to Penn!!! Penn!!! Doesn’t get much more elite. What, you always wanted to spend 4 years in West Philadelphia? You went there because of “fit”? Come on. And on top of that, you were a self-described ‘poor kid at Penn’. Why? Why did you do that to yourself? Why weren’t you a less poor kid at State U? You know why, and I’m pretty sure I know why.
And I said nothing about what my kids are going to do after school. Whatever is implied there, if anything, again, has nothing to do with being arrogant or condescending or anything else. We’re talking about the undergraduate degree. That I can give them a great undergraduate education without burdening them with debt is not relevant, but it is something I worked hard to be able to do.
Finally, yes, to me, the ‘Gold Standard’ in undergraduate education is still a smaller, liberal arts education (which can include engineering) taken in an academic setting where that is the focus and among classmates who are very serious about their own educations. I realize not everyone has access to it, but that doesn’t change the merits of my view. But my view also has some flexibility. For example, UVa is bigger than any LAC, but I’d rather my kid go there or Michigan or Berkeley over a small school where the quality of the student body, as typically measured, is substantially less than the quality of the student body at those bigger, and great, universities. So, for example, I’d prefer junior attend UVa before, say, St. Mary’s College.
And, of course, there are people at junior colleges or who never get to college at all who can run intellectual circles around both of us. And? You know darn well that a kid is going to be dealing with an overall higher caliber of student body at, say, Williams, than they are at the University of Arkansas, even though, it goes without saying, there are brilliant Razorbacks.