<p>Congratulations to your daughter on her accomplishments! I think that you have a great list and that she will do fine!
Regarding philosophy: have you seen this?
[The</a> Philosophical Gourmet Report 2009 :: Undergraduate Study](<a href=“http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/undergrad.asp]The”>http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/undergrad.asp)</p>
<p>I hadn’t! Thank you!</p>
<p>Wading in again…</p>
<p>I agree with Leitner that on the undergrad level its more important to pay attention to the quality of undergraduate education. </p>
<p>Among other things…many high school students have little understanding of what philosophy is or at least what it’s like to major in philosophy. A lot of them are interested in political philosophy. For those who are, majoring in poli sci is often more appropriate than a philosophy major. </p>
<p>Here’s an excerpt from Princeton’s philosophy department’s description of the requirements for a philosophy major:</p>
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<p>Lots of high school kids who think they are interested in philosophy are really only interested in one or two of those areas. I say this only because unless a high school student has an unusual degree of exposure to different fields of philosophy, it’s unlikely that (s)he can really say this is a probable major. So, picking a college based on the strength of the philosophy department makes very little sense in most instances.</p>
<p>Thanks! Just to be clear, she has no interest in a philosophy major, although she would certainly want to try out a couple of courses. At this point she’d looking at theoretical math – but as we know, that could change, too.</p>
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<p>As the parent of a recent Barnard grad, from what you say, I don’t think that Barnard is a good fit.</p>
<p>In the first place, the reading load and writing expectations are intense. </p>
<p>Secondly, even though Barnard is a LAC with many small classes, it also has many larger lecture-type courses, and most students end up taking a significant part of their coursework at Columbia, which also has larger courses. </p>
<p>Finally, Barnard is a community of extremely engaged, self-directed, and highly focused young women. I think that a person really needs a certain level of urban tough to be happy there – the “campus” that your d. loves is the size of a postage stamp and most socializing takes places off campus. It’s possible that Barnard is just the place for your d. to be challenged and to come down from her cloud, but the point is that it is an environment that challenges more than it nurtures. </p>
<p>I’m not saying that she shouldn’t apply. One thing I learned with my son is that kids change, and a kid who seems like a dreamer in high school can rediscover and reinvent themselves in the college years or later. Sometimes it’s partly an issue of maturity, and kids do grow up. </p>
<p>But my point is that Barnard should be one of a number of colleges you are looking at. </p>
<p>My inclination – based on some hindsight parenting - is that with a kid like your daughter I’d look for a school that was a good fit academically, meaning one where your d. could explore her interests in philosophy without being overwhelmed by scholarship expectations she’s not ready to meet.</p>
<p>P.S. I didn’t realize when I first posted that your d. was still a sophomore. A LOT can change between sophomore and senior year – so your d. may be a very different person by the time she gets around to sending in college apps. So Barnard may end up being a great fit for the person she ends up being at age 18. So keep it on the list… just keep in mind that it is not a warm, fuzzy, hand-holding type environment.</p>
<p>Bard College (NY)
Sarah Lawrence College (NY)
Hampshire College (MA)
Bennington College (VT)</p>
<p>Absolutely NOT!!! Those LACs are good matches for the English and humanities oriented, not for wanna be math majors. If she’s interested in theoretical math, those would not be good places to study.</p>
<p>Calmom, this is great input. I did my graduate work at Columbia and, though I think she could find her place there, didn’t recommend she apply. She wouldn’t like the core requirements, for one thing. If Barnard isn’t a close-knit community, she might do better elsewhere. (And of course she will change a lot in the next year or so.)</p>
<p>Jonri, thanks for making this point. Those four weren’t on the list. Neither was Vassar, for the same reason (though if they do have strong math, someone please correct me.)</p>
<p>I don’t know why I keep coming back to this thread like a moth to a flame. However, she really may change a lot in the next two years. She has lots of time. One piece of the puzzle will be how seriously she wants to skate in college. If she wants to do it at the highest level, that will restrict her list. </p>
<p>Don’t worry about the uneven part of it. The “well lopsided” tend to do very well in the admissions process. She’s half -Hispanice and, assuming she’s the “right” kind of Hispanic, that will mean a big boost. If she’s still involved in skating and avoids serious injury, that will be a boost. A gril who excels at math will get a big boost. </p>
<p>So, all in all, you have little to worry about.</p>
<p>I am so glad you started this thread… I was actually reading the old “lopsided” thread when you started this one!</p>
<p>I would like to add to the mix. My son will be a challenging applicant. He is a Junior now, at a teeny, tiny private school with no AP, honors or even regular classes. He is really only recently paying attention to academics, and is extraordinarily gifted in math. He is pretty much teaching himself calculus self paced, and we haven’t completely figured out what he will do senior year, maybe take MIT’s open courseware physics with calc course as an “applied math” course.</p>
<p>On the other hand, although he writes really well from an elegant, grammatical, persuasive, vocabulary point of view, he hates anything having to do with metaphor or poetry, hates and has difficulty reading (dyslexic and other issues) and his actual knowledge is hit or miss because of his school being organized by topics rather than full year courses.</p>
<p>As for actual grades, his GPA (nothing to weight) is about 3.4, which includes an F and C in reading group in 9th grade, after than he was graded pass no credit in reading group (English) until he was able to do enough work to be graded. Otherwise pretty much all A’s and B’s, and IMHO graded very hard – he has gotten B’s in Calculus even though he is doing 100% correct work as the only Calc student because the teacher thinks he can do the work at a faster pace (he does have really severe processing issues, but I don’t like to interfere with high standards and argue about grades!)</p>
<p>EC’s were nonexistent, and can still be said to be nonexistent unless we get creative. School has none, and he is anxious. On the other hand, he just built his 4th computer… and for a school project this time he wrote and documented a “how to build a computer” manual. He runs some sort of server, and a more than typically complex network for our house. He taught himself more Japanese than my other S learned in a semester course at college.</p>
<p>PSAT was high enough for merit commendation, not high enough for merit scholarship in Maryland. I was surprised at how well he did on the reading and writing sections because of his LD. He is taking SAT’s soon, but he refuses to do prep because he doesn’t want to play the “game.” (S1 took that position as well, but did a little prep to raise scores a second time around. We shall see).</p>
<p>Next week we are looking at Johns Hopkins… not because we think he has a snowball’s chance to get in, but just so he can see what an intense, competitive, strong math science school of that size is like. We’ll also look at Goucher, which seems like a reasonable option, and another day we are looking at U. Md. Baltimore County.</p>
<p>I don’t need a specific response about my son now… I feel pretty set in where we are in the exploratory process… a lot to learn… But of course new ideas always welcome!!!</p>
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<p>Several high school classmates who initially started at state/city university colleges because they were C-level students in high school were warned similarly about how “they won’t fit academically” at the elite colleges they were looking to transfer into because of their high school records or lowish standardized test scores. Found it quite interesting how they managed to prove all those naysayers wrong after finishing with 3.5+ college GPAs at their elite colleges…including Columbia. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I would echo the concern about Barnard’s fit due to school’s seeming academic orientation. From what I’ve heard and seen from Barnard students, the school is heavily weighed toward the humanities and social sciences over STEM fields. A factor which caused several Barnard students I knew to transfer out to peer institutions with stronger STEM programs.</p>
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<p>Barnard doesn’t have a core, but it has a set of distribution requirements called “9 ways of knowing” - so it’s not an open curriculum either.</p>
<p>I think that Barnard is a little more close knit than Columbia, but the overall ambiance is not that different, especially after the first year when most of the students are living in housing beyond the quad, which could be 1 block away or 10 blocks away. </p>
<p>It’s kind of difficult to describe, because in some ways Barnard is an incredibly supportive environment, especially when it comes to the potential for student/faculty relationships. But my d. is a very assertive individual – the type of person who knows what she wants and is very direct about asking for whatever she needs. I joke sometimes that by the time I get a whiff that my d’s thinking of doing something, she’s already gone and done it.<br>
So my impression is that the school offers tremendous resources, there for those who take the initiative of seeking them out. </p>
<p>Again though, I didn’t realize when I first posted that your d. was still only a sophomore. It’s a little hard for my to conjure up a memory of the 16-year-old version of my d., but when I do, I don’t really see her at Barnard either. My d. was not all that serious about academics in high school – she kind of breezed her way through A’s with very little work. Definitely not the bookish type. I’d get ticked off because I’d see her using SparkNotes instead of doing assigned reading – so it was hard for me to see her in a challenging academic environment. Then she ended up applying to U of Chicago as well as Barnard – quite the change. Now she tells me she’s thinking of going for a Ph.D. - she went from dreading her senior thesis to loving it. </p>
<p>I think that sometimes with teens we are seeing the impact of hormones rather than personality, so we do need to ride that part out. But I also think that students need to wait until the end of junior year before finalizing a college list – so at this point you should be looking at possibilities, but realize that, especially with a teenager with a lopsided profile and somewhat fluctuating interests, you may be looking at an entirely different set of colleges when application time rolls around.</p>
<p>Re post #31, I didn’t base my comments on the girl’s lopsided profile or GPA. I based it on the mom’s “head-in-the-clouds” characterization. </p>
<p>My daughter’s high school was not strong academically and her test scores were on the low end by Barnard’s standards – she graduated phi beta kappa. But she is focused, ambitious, and highly motivated. So were your classmates who transferred to the elites. </p>
<p>Again, this kid still has some growing and maturation ahead, so the 17 year old who fills out applications might be a different person than the 15 1/2 year old the parent is fretting over … but Barnard is a highly competitive environment. There may be some elite colleges that are also more supportive – but I think that in general the students who will do best at Barnard are the ones whose parents would describe them as highly motivated and largely self-sufficient. </p>
<p>It does take a lot of grit and determination to skate competitively, so perhaps this young woman has what it takes to succeed in a lot of environments, and just has been showing it in a different context.</p>
<p>apq, your daughter might want to look at Harvey Mudd. It’s a math/science school with more of a liberal arts focus than many. And it’s part of the Claremont consortium, so there should be plenty of “head in the clouds” options between the five colleges. I think being female and Latina would be a plus as well.</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd is a great idea! She has friends there and had heard positive things about it. Thanks.</p>
<p>Smith might also be a good option if she would be ok with a woman’s college. It is full of brainy women and they accept students who excell in one area.</p>
<p>One piece of advice: as you are researching colleges, especially smaller colleges, talk to current students to find our how committed or “geeky” their science majors really are. Bryn Mawr looked good on paper: ~30 students major pure math each year (that’s almost 10% of the student body!) and ~40 students do faculty-mentored and college-funded science research on campus each summer. What the view books did not say is that only ~5 of the 30 math majors like their major enough to go beyond the minimum requirements, and that most of the summer research students are international students who cannot get a work permit to work off campus.</p>
<p>Great advice,thanks. I would love for her to check out Smith! Wondering how to get a feel as to “geek level”. Do college guides discuss things like seriousness of intent?</p>