The University of Chicago vs Harvard College (Pre-medical studies)

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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Anticipated major: UChicago = Biological Chemistry; Harvard = Molecular and Cellular Biology

This admissions process has been hectic (but such a blessing); at the end of it all I have come down to UChicago vs Harvard, and I am torn. Now obviously there is the fact that Harvard is the world class institute that it is – just the name alone is enough to get people interested in you, qualifications aside. But the dilemma arises in the fact that I was admitted EA to UChicago and RD to Harvard; I have had time to grow with the UChicago community and I love it wholeheartedly. Each individual adds something unique and insightful to the conversation that it is hard to deny the intellectual and often “silly” environment (to put it very tamely; if you are in the class of 2020 and in the group chats you know what I mean). This is not to say that I would not make friends at Harvard, but going in with a solid base is always helpful when trying to branch out (applicable in all aspects of life).

The main snag comes in me comparing the two in terms of pre-medical placement and outlook. Pre-med is hard everywhere, that’s a given. But with hopes of going to a top medical school such as HMS, Stanford, Feinberg, Pritzker, even CWRU (my “hometown” school; I’ve interned with Cleveland Clinic and UH) after the completion of my undergraduate studies, I feel that the schedule at UChicago may be a negative in terms of my GPA when applying. The CORE curriculum present in combination with the quarter system makes tremendously well-rounded students, yes, but it makes it difficult for prospective pre-meds who need to maintain a high GPA to remain competitive. At Harvard I feel like the absence of this CORE would allow me to tune my scheduling in order to help with the process. I am, however, not enamored with Harvard in the same way as I am with Chicago. This may be a result of me not being exposed to the student group as much, but I feel myself the “Harvard” name driving the experience, not the actual experience driving the experience (as in my time spent at the university, if that makes any sense), which I feel is where my decision lies in currently. Would it just be worth going to UChicago on merit, or would the Harvard logo help me in a way that would drastically change my standing as a medical school applicant?

I would hate to turn down Harvard, but is it worth me looking at the name over the experience – well not me looking at the name, but more the view of those in society on me as an individual due to the connotation the name holds? Also, is it worth choosing Chicago for the people and the environment over the potential damage to my pre-med chances? I am extremely dedicated to what I do and my goal of becoming a doctor. I will go out and intern, shadow, gain experience, but that alone does not drive medical school acceptance. And thus, I am torn. Any advice (I will likely post on the UChicago side of things to gain other opinions)? Thank you in advance.

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Ignore the line about me posting on the UChicago side… Forgot to remove it when posting haha

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Did you visit both schools yet? Choose the school that you think you will fit better in (from what you’ve posted on this thread, you seem to like UChicago better because of its quirkiness). Both schools will have their fair shares of intellectualism, but it’s undeniable that UChicago displays this quality more proudly.

The problem with going to UChicago for Pre-Med is that it will kill your GPA (relative to Harvard), but on the upside, you’ll leave the school in four years knowing more that you ever thought you would learn. The Core may make scheduling a lot harder, but it will make you more well-rounded and not focused on just one area. Also take note that UChicago employs the quarter system, which goes past ridiculously fast (final after final after final), but also allows you to take more credits overall in a year if you choose (12 vs. 10). Many kids suffer, but also a great many enjoy this as well. Knowing the people on the group chat will certainly give you a good foundation of friends, but UChicago’s house system makes the process of friend-making ridiculously easy, even if some of the coolest people on the chat do not end up attending. In addition, the school’s many traditions (see Scav) create a college community that is unparalleled.

Now, to Harvard’s qualifications. No, Harvard’s experience is not driven by name-brand alone. I have a friend who goes there and is having the time of his life. There are amazing people at Harvard as well, if you choose to attend, and many of them don’t prioritize or brag about the school they go to (it’s Harvard, so everyone is smart). Of course, there are some people who use the Harvard name to drive experiences (and their entire life), but your ultimate experience will be driven by what you do and not by the prestige of the school, if you know what I mean. Going to Harvard and getting a good GPA (which is a lot easier to do than at UChicago) will certainly help your med school chances.

Yes, it’s certainly worth turning down the name for the experience… you’re not alone. About 19% of all accepted students turn down Harvard as well, and some do it for UChicago. That being said, Harvard’s experience is definitely not shabby. Similarly, UChicago’s experience will not be that amazing if you do not choose to use it. It’s all up to what you do; that defines your experience. I think that your liking for UChicago is very likely due to the community you’ve been a part of… if you were part of both Facebook groups or something, your choice will be monumentally more difficult. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry if I made your job a lot harder, but I just wanted to answer some of your questions. Good luck, and realize that you’ll be successful regardless of which school you go to. You’ll make awesome friends, learn a lot, and experience many life-changing events in the next four years; when you look back, you’ll realize how trivial this decision actually is.

I won’t tell you what I would do, since it’s your decision and not mine. I’m sure many people will have quality arguments for both sides. Just take your time and think it over. If all else fails by May 1st and you still are torn between both schools, here is a good test to determine which school you should go to (I got it off another thread, but it’s amazing for making decisions). Get a coin, and designate “heads” as Harvard and “tails” as UChicago. Flip it, and commit to the school that is indicated by the coin. If you truly like both schools equally, you will know which school you should go to after the coin lands. If for some reason you don’t like the result of the toss, then you also know which school you should go to. :wink:

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Find and read some of "ramboacid"s posts on some of the other threads. He writes about the UC premed experience from the inside.

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Here’s what I told my kid (though it didn’t persuade her, LOL!). In terms of intellectual experience, you can get anything you want from Harvard. Want to have a well-rounded education – then choose your courses accordingly. Want a cohort of kids who share your passion for academics – choose your friends wisely. Want to get to know your professors – speak up in class, go to office hours, take advantage of the many informal opportunities in your house or your department to socialize outside of class, write a senior thesis. Want small classes – take seminars. And (like Chicago’s,) Harvard’s libraries, museums, and labs are world-class, so you’re in a resource-rich environment.

The two main differences between the schools’ cultures (aside from Cambridge vs Chicago), are that Chicago requires you to do things that Harvard lets you do and that, as a result, the kids who are attracted to Chicago are different from the kids who are attracted to Harvard. I’d venture to say that most of the kids at Harvard aren’t there for the academics and many will spend more time on extracurriculars than on classes (visit the Crimson, the Lampoon, the Institute of Politics, or check out the robust and ambitious theater scene for examples). Harvard’s prestige and network make this a safe – even sensible – strategy for many undergrads. (Though presumably not for premeds!).

So the question becomes what kind(s) of people do you want to encounter/be surrounded by during your undergrad years? Extroverted, self-confident types who have big plans and are seeking out the experiences and building the network that will give them a shot at success? Or more introverted kids whose sense of self is more tied to their intelligence and the quality of their education?

Personally, I’m the second kind of person, but see the benefit of being surrounded by the other type. And it was a real eye-opener to be a lower middle class kid (raised in a Rust Belt burb and then SoCal) thrown into that kind of milieu. D’s also the second type of person, but raised upper middle class in an east coast power elite kind of city. Her attitude is BTDT, tired of the BS, get me to the Midwest where people seem to be hardworking and nice, surround me with nerds, and give me challenging and interesting classes. So she applied to U of C EA and then decided to accept without sending out any other apps. I’m not sure she trusted herself to make what she considered the right choice if both of the options you’re considering ended up on the table simultaneously! And, like you, she’s been delighted by what she’s seen of her future classmates via social media. So everything she’s experienced post-acceptance has reinforced her perception that Chicago is where she belongs.

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I recognize you from the Stanford FB group page. If you wouldn’t mind, why aren’t you considering Stanford?

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@oldmenewme Didn’t you hear?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/opinion/college-admissions-shocker.html?_r=0

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@oldmenewme I didn’t receive any aid from there. Harvard was the same, but I had to appeal twice to get 10k. All of this is against a 35k merit scholarship from UChicago. I was thinking strictly in terms of cost before, but my parents said not to worry as much, so that is why I am stuck now partially.

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Have you visited Harvard? I think it is important to familiarize yourself with the Harvard community before you pass judgement. UChicago pre-med career services are substantially better than they have been in the past, but Harvard is still Harvard.

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@Trickster2212 I have not visited yet. I will likely visit this upcoming weekend, and make a decision when I return. After removing the people from Chicago, the decision at hand becomes a little bit easier. That being said, I am not all that concerned about “prestige”, but being realistic it carries so much importance in society (something that shouldn’t be true IMO, but it is how it is).

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@AceSquad23, not sure why you would remove “the people from Chicago” in your deliberations. The people are what make up the culture of the college and a critical part of one’s experience at college. The recommendation is to visit both schools so that you can actually meet and talk to these people and get the gestalt of each school. One can get all the info on curriculum etc online.

When DD came back from her visit, she could not stop talking about the people she met and how she adored them. If she ends up attending, it will be because of the people.

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@ihs76 I went on one of the overnights to UChicago and I loved it no doubt. I meant remove the people in terms of making it a more personal decision. I found that people were trying to sway me one way (pro-UChicago) and it was making it difficult to make a solid choice kn my own.

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I have a gut feeling that UChicago is where you’re meant to be. Over the last couple of years, I’ve been reading letters from kids on how they’ve chosen their college and again and again I hear, “something clicked and i realized it was the right place.”

You’ve already managed to find a tribe there…you know you’re going to fit in…it’s even cheaper…and you can always do med school at harvard :slight_smile:

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@AceSquad23, ah, I see. Makes more sense.

You’re going to visit Harvard, I expect you will have a much clearer view after that. Go to whichever one feels right for you.

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You have two great options obviously and if money is not an obstacle then I would look at how the school would support your career goal. Look up how pre med students reviewed the schools. I keep hearing that the GPA and MCAT is paramount for med school consideration. I really think that you could find your tribe at either one. Good luck!

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I went on a campus tour today and the campus was great (despite it being quite gloomy and rainy out). The skies cleared later in the day so I could see more of the beauty at the campus. I’m still so torn between the two…

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As a current premed at UChicago, my two cents is that Harvard would be better for getting you into a top med school because of better GPA, better cachet with medical schools (despite what people say, brand does matter to a degree), and more time to develop extracurriculars or do research (because academics are easier). That being said, I think UChicago will make you a better doctor by encouraging divrese intellectural interests, encouraging a genuine humanism through the Core curriculum, and helping you to become more comfortable with insecurity and being out of your intellectual depth. I would definitely not have as good an understanding of the goals of medicine, or be as passionate about humanism in medicine, had I gone anywhere that did not force me to take the humanities and social science seriously or take them with an eye towards my intellectual growth. I know you’ve read my other posts so I won’t repeat that stuff here, and ultimately the final decision can only be made by you, but feel free to continue posting here/PM me if you have more personal or specific questions.

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In all honesty, You can’t really go wrong here. Both will provide you a stellar education. Please don’t agonize and torture yourself. You will be in a great place next year and be happy. If you have any financial constraints, choose the school that gave you the better deal. That would be UChicago.

If you have any doubts that you are passing up prestige and have no financial constraints chose Harvard. Your family is pretty high income. You don’t want to feel stuck at UChicago thinking why did I pass up Harvard for this?

I think that you may be leaning more to Harvard tbh. With a $35,000 merit scholarship, a kid that really wants UChicago would have gleefully accepted. You seem to be agonizing over this too much.

Let go. Have confidence and move forward. Things will really be OK. Always, buena suerte.

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Harvard will help you get into med school due to grade inflation + fewer requirements.
UChicago will really make it harder for you as a premed (to the point it may kill your possibility of going to med school) but it’s a bit cheaper.
However, right now you’re talking about the Facebook relations built over the past 4 months as one of your main reasons to turn down Harvard, so perhaps you need to think of where you want to be 4 years from now and how much these past 4 months on UChic’s FB will really matter. You should attend UChic for what it is, its vibe and the core in particular.
Someone will happily be taken off the waitlist when you turn down one of these two schools. :slight_smile:
Don’t forget to post your decisions!

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@MYOS1634 I used to think this too, but I don’t think the stats really don’t bear this out. The acceptance rate is close to 90% from Uchicago for med school and I think @ramboacid posted elsewhere that there is not a lot of attrition going on because of brutal grading.

Having said that, I do think others have confirmed that Harvard is generally quite a bit less rigorous academically than UChicago. So that might be a consideration

http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2014/11/06/20-most-rigorous-colleges-photos.html

according to this ranking, here’s how they arrived at that assessment