UMich vs UChicago pre-med

College Search & Selection
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<p>I was recently admitted through early action to both the University of Michigan and the University of Chicago. I am completely torn and would like to see the thoughts of the wonderful people on this thread! </p>

<p>About me: I plan on completing the pre-med requirements and matriculating to medical school. I want to major in either neuroscience/biochem/chem or something like that. I also want to do research at the undergraduate level (I'm about to submit an evolutionary psychological research paper with a professor to be published). I also want a fun, quirky place. I like to party once in a while, but want a very academic atmosphere as well.</p>

<p>Some factors that I don't really want considered are pricing and location. I've visited both schools and love both campuses. Hyde Park doesn't bother me that much, I'm used to being in Detroit a lot. Pricing differences are also negligible between the two.</p>

<p>My main focuses:
-Quality of Pre-med track and overall science education
-Quality of teachers
-Availability of research for undergraduates
-Good track record of sending pre-meds to med school
-Small class sizes
-Overall vibe of campus. Fun but academic.</p>

<p>I've been told a few different things. Some people say I should go to Michigan because it is easier to get a higher GPA and stand out, which would help with medical school acceptance (I would actually love to to to Michigan's Medical School). They also say that if I am in the honors program I can have smaller classes and better advising (I was invited to apply to honors). </p>

<p>Others, however, say that I would be a fool for turning down UChicago with such a fantastic financial aid package. They say that it is more intellectual, and a once in a lifetime opportunity. Plus, they also have fantastic research opportunities, a great vibe, and a pre-med advising staff that is drastically improving.</p>

<p>Again, I'm torn.</p>

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<p>I don’t know much about both schools, but I do know that Michigan is more of a party school than UChicago. You said you like to party but also focus on academics, so I think Michigan is your place.</p>

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<p>There’s a reason why UChicago is at #4 in the Nation</p>

<p>Although much focus is placed on Graduate, undergrad is still great. You’re going to pre-med, which means you need a good undergrad to put you on top of other applicants. </p>

<p>Not saying UMich isn’t good. I’m saying the opportunities and benefits reside at Chicago.</p>

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<p>

There is no benefit in Med school admissions for going to UChicago over UM.</p>

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<p>What I’ve been told is that the “prestige” , for lack of a better word, that comes from graduating from UChicago is offset by the fact that I can most likely receive a slightly higher GPA at Michigan. True/False? I don’t really think either of these fine schools are a bad choice, I think they’re both great… I just want to make the best one :)</p>

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<p>^If you want a 4.0 you will work for a 4.0. Something like GPA and “easiness” of a school should not deter you from choosing a school. </p>

<p>Now, there is a reason why UChicago is prestigious. By this, I mean that this school is tough. But your GPA comes down to how hard you’re willing to work, not how easy a school is.</p>

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<p>I don’t think I would have been accepted if I wasn’t willing and able to push myself haha :stuck_out_tongue: I was just saying that is what people have said.</p>

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<p>Neither university will offer you a greater advantage. It is not easier to get a high GPA at Michigan than it is at Chicago. Neither university is known for grade inflation, and both have exaggerated grade deflation. So if that is all you are worried about, go for Chicago. Both universities have amazing hospitals that will offer undergrads internship, both universities have excellent research programs for undergrads, and both universities have top-ranked medical schools that give priority to their own undergrads. Bottom line. In short, you cannot go wrong. Go for the cheaper option (you mentioned that Chicago gave you a great financial aid package, so I assume it is cheaper to attend). If they cost the same, go for fit. Michigan is more fun than Chicago!</p>

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<p>Prestige of school matters very little in terms of med school acceptances. Med schools care about two things most importantly, being GPA (especially in science courses) and MCAT score. Having research would also be helpful for the interview. </p>

<p>You sound like you’d fit in pretty well at both schools - UM is definitely more of the party school and you might get a higher GPA there. But you also said you’re quirky and want a studious atmosphere, which Chicago may support more. Chicago’s research opportunities are likely better, and their class sizes are probably a tad better as well. </p>

<p>Both excellent choices. Tough decision, good luck.</p>

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<p>Go for fit-I would choose UChicago for the fact that you will be better off with a Chicago degree than a Michigan degree if you choose to forego the premed route and choose to gain employment in say finance instead.</p>

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<p>According to gradeinflation.com, Chicago’s grades are slightly more inflated than Michigans. However, if Michigan accepts a lot of low-stat instate residents (like UCLA does) then you might find yourself with a higher GPA than you would at Chicago.</p>

<p>Chicago’s arguably the best school in the Midwest and has resources that Michigan just doesn’t have. Michigan, however, is in a college town that’s probably way better than anything in Hyde Park. </p>

<p>The decision about which school to pick is highly personal. I’d go to Chicago because i’m a fan of the intellectual environment (assuming the price difference won’t be an issue.) However since you set out criteria, I’ll do my best to answer it:</p>

<p>“-Quality of Pre-med track and overall science education”</p>

<p>both probably have top science programs, one school might have better pre-med advising than the other though which might be important to consider (I don’t know enough about either university to make a definitive claim about this.)</p>

<p>“-Quality of teachers”</p>

<p>probably equal. both have some good and some bad. Being research universities, both are more concerned with the quality of their professor’s research than their teaching abilities (trivia: the former owner of the carwash in AMC’s Breaking Bad is a UChicago professor in chem. or physics I think.)</p>

<p>“-Availability of research for undergraduates”</p>

<p>Probably equal. Again, both are large research universities with competitive undergraduates.</p>

<p>“-Good track record of sending pre-meds to med school”</p>

<p>don’t know enough about either school to comment about this.</p>

<p>“-Small class sizes”</p>

<p>in general? probably Chicago. But i’m sure Michigan has majors with small class sizes too.</p>

<p>“-Overall vibe of campus. Fun but academic.”</p>

<p>I’m not exactly sure what you mean by your last statement. But, Michigan’s in a college town that’s completely focused on the university. Michigan also has big-time sports that Chicago doesn’t have (e.g. football) that might factor into many people’s definition of fun. But again, this is a personal opinion. My idea of a fun night might be discussing Frege’s Sense and Reference, world politics (in particular, Chinese diplomacy), or prestigious universities. This, I imagine, would be easier done at Chicago than Michigan, since the latter probably has a number of students that don’t care about any of those subjects (at least that was the case at UCLA.)</p>

<p>Neither will likely confer a great advantage over the other. Personally i’d factor in cost, and then fit, to decide which of the two to attend.</p>

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<p>Both are great. Going to Michigan would just have more perks like the parties, Sports, and the city of AA is a great plus. If you wanna have more fun I would go to Michigan over Chicago, both are great schools. Michigan is top 5 public school IMO In the USA if not better. The overall experience at UMich is something you won’t get in Chicago. Chicago is still a great school and if they are offering you a lot of aid and money that would be a great option too.</p>

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</p>

<p>About 17% of Michigan’s classes have 50 or more students. Many have 100 or more. Large classes are likely to be more common in your first 2 years and may be an issue with many of your pre-med courses. Less than 5% of Chicago’s classes have 50 or more students (one of the lowest rates of any research university.) About 15% of Michigan’s undergraduate classes are taught by graduate assistants. I don’t have Chicago’s rate, but would be surprised if it isn’t much lower than that.</p>

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<p>

It’s interesting to look at actual course listings, as they can be more revealing than simple percentages.</p>

<p>[Schedule</a> of Classes - Office of the Registrar](<a href=“http://www.ro.umich.edu/schedule/]Schedule”>Schedule of Classes https://ro.umich.edu/sites/default/files/timesched/pdf/WN2024_open.csv | Office of the Registrar)
[University</a> of Chicago Time Schedules](<a href=“http://timeschedules.uchicago.edu/]University”>http://timeschedules.uchicago.edu/)</p>

<p>Glancing over Chicago’s biology listings, one sees that the 50+ student criterion is avoided by capping courses just below that limit - usually in the 45-48 range. Moreover, 100+ student courses are not uncommon in the department or, for that matter, in certain others (e.g. organic chem enrolls 185 students).</p>

<p>I agree that courses at Chicago are more likely to be small, particularly at the lower level. Certainly very large classes are unusual. Still, small (>20 students) undergraduate courses in very popular majors like biology are somewhat uncommon regardless of where you attend. Even some LACs have 100+ students in lower level biology courses.</p>

<p>As for research, mention should be made to Michigan’s excellent UROP program, which seeks to provide research opportunities to freshmen and sophomores.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/urop/[/url]”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/urop/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Thanks for the info guys. I’ve heard a lot about the UROP program and it sounds really good, however, I know a few students at UChicago that say if you are looking for research in any field you can find it. So I’m not sure which one is better haha.</p>

<p>I’m in IB2 Chem HL right now and we just spent a little over a semester just on organic chem so I think that I’ll be prepared as well as I can be for orgo in college. However, I’m still worried because a lot of people say that class is really hard. Someone said that at Michigan if I go into the honors college I can take Honors orgo which really isn’t that much harder but it has way way wayyyy less students. Is this true?</p>

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<p>I had similar options (UChicago, michigan, and other schools). I knew the undergrad education was something special, but I didn’t know if it was hyped up or not. But having finished a quarter here, I can definitely say that your undergraduate education is both going to support your medical school ambitions as well as transform the way you think.</p>

<p>Your Core classes will have a cap of 17 students and often be even lower than that. It’s hard to describe but I feel like I’m not here just to take premed courses and be on my way. The engaging and sophisticated intellectual discussion, intimate collaboration, and debate within these Core classes is fantastic. I’m a bio major premed and I have to say my Core Humanities class has by far been the most life-changing education experience in my life. I feel like I’m now thinking on a higher plane, a higher dimension from which to learn. Wherever you go, you will take chemistry, biology, physics, etc. But the UChicago core experience really makes me believe that I am just a scholar and not just “another premed”. It’s no small feat that I’ve become entranced by a Hindu text’s message for people to become aware of the intricate cosmological forces that dictate time and space for example. Medical school is medical school. But your undergraduate experience is much more variable and I do not regret my choice to partake in this revolutionary education experience here while being a premed as well.</p>

<p>About research: there’s more openings than students. I thought there wouldn’t be many so I asked around 6 professors for research positions. All 6 invited me to come in.</p>

<p>About quality of teaching: These professors don’t spew notes and run away in a hurry to their laboratories. They truly value spending time with undergraduates in hopes of instilling them with knowledge that can change their lives. I’ve spent hours having conversations with professors during their office hours and it is clear that they are passionate and committed to the educational philosophies of the College. They don’t want you to just learn. They want you to explore with a passion for the material you learn and it is evident.</p>

<p>And sort of going along with the Core experience: the students are amazing. Chicago’s students are amazing (I’m sure Michigan’s are as well), but one of the main reasons propsies choose Chicago is because they simply love to learn. They commit to “knowledge for knowledge” and want to live the “Life of the Mind”, a perpetual intellectual inquiry into what we don’t know and what we presume to be true. This is partly what makes discussion style classes here so amazing as well as what makes research so engaging.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about Michigan but this is my blurb for Chicago.</p>

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<p>Another note about the professors since someone mention that professors at research universities may be touted for their research more than their teaching. The Dean of the College at UChicago personally interviews applicants for teaching positions here and crucial questions he asks are about the philosophy of education at this school, how they can push their students to think on a higher plane, and how their teaching can propagate intellectual inquiry and development.</p>

<p>Pre-med advisers are lovely btw. One is a really sweet lady and has hooked me up with doctors to shadow, got me in a lab that normally doesn’t take undergrads, arranged for me to do summer research with a very generous stipend, and scheduled a personal lunch for us two as well as a handful of prominent physicians and professors here. They really go out of their way to make your experience as successful as possible while making their help as personally meaningful to you as possible.</p>

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<p>I count 52 undergraduate courses in the Fall Quarter 2012 biology listings.
Three show enrollments of 100 or more. Those are lectures that meet for 50 minutes 3x/week. Two of these 3 courses also have lab sections, meeting for ~3-4 hours per week, with enrollments of 17-25 students. </p>

<p>That’s Biology. Among ~40 English courses offered in Fall 2012, the largest enrollment was 56 (for the lecture part of the course, which also had discussion sections enrolling 18-20.)</p>

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<p>tk, I am not sure where you got that 15% of Michigan classes are taught by graduate students. The figure is 3% (1% once you get past the 200 levels. The majority of classes taught by TAs are basic, intro level language, Mathematics and technical courses. </p>

<p>[Information</a> About Graduate Student Instructors at the University of Michigan](<a href=“http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/gsi-sa/teach.html]Information”>http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/gsi-sa/teach.html)</p>

<p>Perhaps you were referring to the percentage of discussion groups that are led by TAs. Unfortunately, most universities will not publish statistics as Michigan does. One thing is clear, however; any university with 10,000 graduate students will have many discussion groups led by graduate students.</p>

<p>That being said, Michigan will definitely have larger classes at the Freshman level, although large classes will still be common at intro levels at Chicago. But once a student starts taking more advanced classes, there will be very little difference in the size of classes, especially in majors such as Biology and Chemistry.</p>

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<p>In all my time at UCLA, I only had one discussion that wasn’t lead by a graduate student; and that was a forced discussion our professor made us attend (class only should have bee 3 hours a week. However, he made it 6 by making us forfeit part of our Saturdays, but compensated for it by buying us pizza.)</p>

<p>Classes that were taught purely by professors with no graduate students typically had no discussions. But that wasn’t a detriment since the classes were two hours (which was apparently significantly longer than many other classes on campus) and the professors were very open to discussion.</p>