<p>Texas, I can't agree with you about smoking dope instead of drinking. The marijuana available today has been bred to have about a 20% THC content, far stronger than the strongest marijuana available in the 70s. It is not an innocuous drug. As a friend of mine said on discovering his son's stash "it doesn't even smell right." </p>
<p>As for the whole drinking/driving thing, I'm in favor of a national move to zero tolerance on alcohol and driving (at all ages). Even .08 is too high. In WA, a minor caught driving under the influence can lose his/her drivers' license until 21--I've seen this have an enormous effect on kids. While all of my children's friends admit to drinking underage, none of them would consider driving after drinking anything.</p>
<p>dmd - I hadn't thought about marijuana being stronger. In any case, I'm not saying that it's an inocuous drug, I'm just saying that it does not generally cause the kind of aggressive behavior that alcohol does. If the effects are the same as they were in the 70s only stronger, you have a lot less initiative to do the kinds of things that can cause permanent injury or death, like speeding in a car. Of course, you may also not have enough initiative to study, go to class, get a job, etc. When I was in school, it was the binge drinkers who died in car wrecks. The pot-heads just flunked out, which, while serious, is a lot easier to recover from. Of course, I'm basing this on 30 year old data. Someone with more recent experience could certainly contradict me.</p>
<p>I agree with Texas. astoundingly more misery is caused by alcohol than marijuana, and we waste billions of dollars and put hundreds of thousands of nonviolent offenders in jail for the latter. It just doesn't add up. I'm not saying that marijuana is harmless, but there is absolutely no proportionality here.</p>
<p>When I was in college the drinking age was 18. There was certainly drinking, and some binge drinking, but mostly by kids who had been raised in gulags and never had the opportunity to cut loose at all in HS. Other people were able to stay inside the line of responsible behavior-- occasionally getting drunk but never if there was a test the next day, etc.</p>
<p>I grew up in Calif and there was drinking and pot in my HS; more pot than alcohol. My parents were fairly laid back about me going out to parties, with the only rule NO DRIVING if inebriated.</p>
<p>So when I got to college I was somewhat experienced with the party scene, but also deathly afraid of not doing well in college, the "big pond." So I did not drink for the entire first semester to focus on my grades. I did, however, attend parties. Let me tell you nothing could reinforce the decision not to drink better than being the only sober person at a wild frat party. People just looked idiotic!</p>
<p>I would get a beer cup, and just drink ginger ale or water. Nobody noticed or cared.</p>
<p>I vote for a lower drinking age and more relaxed attitude in teen years, like TheDad's. My family does the same and I have a firm non drinker in my D...</p>
<p>My children have all inherited my own distaste for the taste of alcohol. In France I believe that children are given diluted wine at festive occasions and we offer it too, but no one really wants it. </p>
<p>One of the things about living close to a university is that I have the opportunity fairly often to be on the campus and observe what goes on. I guarantee you that the drinking is by no means limited to fraternities. It is a bit easier to point a finger at a national organization and say "Oh those bad (choose your Greek letters)!" than it is to point a finger at a completely unknown solitary dormitory and say "Oh that bad (choose name of dormitory) Hall!"<br>
Much easier to get excited about something that seems to have some kind of governing body where you can direct your complaints too. </p>
<p>I think focusing on frats is the wrong focus. It is whatever is going on in our society (including our over-parenting and pressure??) that is driving these kids to drink excessively and dangerously. On the surface at least, it seems like a far more serious issue than it was in my college days (when we rode dinosaurs to class).</p>
<p>Patient, it's obvious that there's a lot of drinking at colleges, regardless of Greek affiliation. However, frat affiliation, in particular, is in general a significant intensifier of alcohol-related behaviors and misbehaviors.</p>
<p>I don't think drinking age per se is as significant as the context in which drinking is learned. I.e., there's a difference between going out and getting plotzed with your friends and drinking lightly in a more defined social situation.</p>
<p>"there's a difference between going out and getting plotzed with your friends and drinking lightly in a more defined social situation."</p>
<p>If you are under 21 years old, there really is no difference from a legal standpoint. Drinking in any quantity would be a violation of the law. I am not sure how you tell a teenager that it is ok to break the law - as long as you are sensible and responsible about it! I am not sure where and how you would draw the line as to distinguish which illegal activities would be acceptable and which would not be acceptable.</p>
<p>Is it ok to drink in a dorm room, but not in a frat? Is it ok to drive a car faster than the speed limit if no one is looking, or no one will get hurt?</p>
<p>I feel like extreme behavior is encouraged in many contexts. Plastic surgery, spending, driving hummers, gambling, drinking is just one facet.</p>
<p>I didn't imitate my mothers lassiez faire attitude about sex and drugs.( my father had died young) she didn't blink when I told her I had to drink milk to coat my stomach before I went out drinking( in high school), she allowed my brother to grow pot plants in the basement (her reasoning was he might turn out "gay" if she was an authority figure :eek: ), she never called to check if parents were going to be home at overnights.
With my daughters I know where they are and what they are doing period. They don't even have cell phones and they get a hold of me when they are going to be late ( they use OTHER peoples cell phones lol) For development reasons, I don't think it matters if it is legal or not, although as a teen it was easier to get drugs than alcohol, but from what I have read, substance abuse of anything is more likely and more damaging before the brain has matured. I don't think the drinking age should be lowered to 18, I think the driving age should be raised to 18.</p>
<p>I am a soon to be college student. My HS has a lot of drinking (most HSs in small towns do: we get REALLY bored.) But I don't. I am a self-proclaimed control freak and the idea of not being in control of my actions doesn't work for me. As far as being around drinking, it's interesting, being the only person at a party who will remember the party the next morning. </p>
<p>What I don't understand is why when underagers get to drinking, they don't stop until they hit the floor. There is a big difference btwn having a drink or two and drinking until you can't see straight. Students who can't even figure out when to stop, are they mature enough to be away from home? It's like a three-year-old with a cookie jar: unchecked, they will eat a whole batch of cookies.</p>
<p>That Greensleeves is the real question, why don't people (teens) drink responsibly. In part it is because they are teens, but it is more than simply that. A lot of us who were in college in the 70s would say that there was some binge drinking, but less than there seems to be on college campuses now. More pot, maybe, but less binge drinking. The pattern was the same as it seems to be now - kids got away from home, began drinking, some BIG parties, some more social type drinking; as these students progressed through school, much of the binge drinking tapered off, except for maybe the big game, social drinking became more common, heavy partiers flunked out, everyone else developed a more "adult" pattern of alcohol use.
One thing I see different from my growing up is the heavy drinking in high school that seems to be prevalent now - there was a little beer consumed at my high school, but I grew up in a poor, dry county, and getting a 6 pack required some organization. I think the drinking habit, even true alcoholism, is established earlier. The drinking to excess culture is also more prevalent in our area, G'sleeves.</p>