<p>There have been many threads on this board that insinuate that drinking only occurs at schools with a strong fraternity presence. This article suggests otherwise.</p>
<p>Oh, I absolutely agree but I can't recall the threads that you're talking about -- there were some threads that mentioned that strong Greek environments fostered a heaving drinking culture, but I can't recall people saying that Greek life was a pre-requisite (then again, I usually just skim the fraternity/sorority threads). There are a lot of non-Greek campuses with a reputation for heavy drinking/partying.</p>
<p>There have been several threads dedicated specifically to fraternities. I don't know how to link to past threads, but you can find them. Here is a direct quote from a recent thread on why students drink.</p>
<p>"Quote:
What makes an intelligent student bend under the desire to belong to the group and drink shots of alchohol or water until they die? </p>
<p>Fraternities."</p>
<p>As you all are aware, binge drinking can be a problem with some kids in college and it does not take a fraternity to create this situation. I just opened this forum and saw this thread and let me tell you, that it is VERY appropo to something going on in my family at this very moment, though not with MY children (just to clarify). </p>
<p>I got home from Boston at 3 AM. I was there for my 16 year old's FINAL (yay!) college audition which went very well. As we were getting ready to leave Boston to go home last night, my own child (this is UNRELATED to alcohol) was doubled over in pain that was severe and could not get to the car. I was afraid to make the 3 1/2 hour drive home through the country on a Sunday night so opted to take her to an ER. Thankfully everything checked out and was eliminated and they think she had muscle sprain (from dancing? not sure). Anyway, my mom called me at 11 PM all worried but she lives on the west coast and I wanted to get back to VT and next thing she tells me is that my niece, who is 18 and a freshman in college on the east coast is in the hospital. I just saw this niece last weekend when my D auditioned at HER college. It was too late to call my brother to learn more plus I needed to get on the road and it was so late and I ended up getting home at 3, which concerns me as I have to turn around and leave in 24 hours as I am heading to Idaho to see my other D in National Championships for college ski racing that she is in with her college team (very exciting for her). </p>
<p>I just talked to my brother who had to rush to the hospital over the weekend where his D's college is (she was supposed to be leaving today on spring break on a cruise). She has Pancreatitis which I am now reading about and can be very serious. She was vomitting for a couple days before her roomie got her to the infirmary and then she was sent to a hospital. This IS brought on by drinking. As well as drinking being a problem, I am sure it does not help when kids wait to get help and are not aware of the seriousness of certain symptoms. I only talked to him briefly as a doctor was coming into her room and so I do not know the prognosis and I pray she does not have complications. Please share this story with your kids if they are involved or just aware of friends who binge drink. We all know some of the usual dangers like car accidents and date rape type issues but really bad medical situations can also happen. I hope she gets better. It is not just a frat/Greek scene where this happens. I get the feeling at some campuses or with some kids at some parties, they drink and consume alot and this is a big deal...like they mean to get wiped. I am thankful my own kids do not engage in this but obviously from the article and from my observations, this is a problem on college campuses. My younger D was just accepted to this same school and while the school is fine, it sure crosses my mind that if she goes there, as much as I LOVE my niece, I am not sure I want her to be influenced by her activities, even though my child doesn't engage in this stuff. Kids can be easily influenced when associating with those who do and it IS her cousin. Anyway, I am posting this just to tell someone but really cause this thread is quite on topic with this crisis in my family.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Drinking goes on at every school except for I'm guessing BYU. It's also a choice and no one is EVER forced into it even if you are part of the Greek system. No one ever forces your mouths open and funnels beer down your throat. If you raised your kids well and they are responsible, this shouldn't be a problem. In my experiences, the kids that tend to go overboard are the ones that were sheltered the most in high school.</p>
<p>My own D made the comment last night about the sheltered kids in HS are the ones who go overboard in HS. However, in this particular child's (my niece) case, she was NOT sheltered in HS and had a LOT of leeway (my D mentioned this to be true) and partied then too. So, while I have heard that comment you posted before, there are a lot of variations that go on. </p>
<p>I totally agree that nobody makes you drink (or drink too much) and it is a personal choice. Some kids are making poor personal choices and this type of activity is prevalent on campuses and certain kids gravitate toward these situations when involved in that "culture". They are not necessarily "bad" kids. My niece got straight A's first semester of college and is a pretty good student. She has made some poor behavioral decisions, however, that have caused her some bad consequences in the past but this is by far the worst one. I am openly mentioning this because I hope kids realize that medical conditions can occur when you binge. And they can be serious. As well, my point in sharing was to warn kids that if you get ill like this, get help, do not wait.</p>
<p>There is lots of data on this issue. Students at frat schools DO drink more; as do students in the northeast and upper midwest, residential schools, coed schools, schools without a religious affiliation, schools with higher than average family incomes, schools with strong sports programs. Doesn't mean that everyone does, or even that the majority does. But there is in fact a sound body of data on this question.</p>
<p>You're correct, it's an issue with a lot of students. My school actually offers amnesty if you call an ambulance for a sick person.</p>
<p>This is an issue that has been weighing on my mind, too. Our D, a first-year student, has had a couple of new friendships drop off. When we asked her why, she said that it's because some of her dorm friends have taken to serious drinking as their main form of recreation. Girls go out in pairs, one designated as the one who will drink (until she vomits!), the other designated as staying sober enough to see them both home. This "weeknd" activity starts on Thursday night and continues until Sunday. "Drinking to go to sweaty parties with boys" is the way D summed it up. This is very troubling--- as soozievt points out, there are serious immediate and long-term health issues to this kind of alcohol abuse. We've met the kids and they seem very nice. If it were our D, we would want to know and intervene, and this has left us wondering if we should bring this up to "someone somewhere."</p>
<p>A final thought, I have to disagree that this is something sheltered kids are prone to. The kids I am using as an example seem to have arrived at this very selective college with a drinking problem.</p>
<p>At schools where they are not drinking there is often more weed. One can choose whether to join a frat or sorority and one can choose which one to join; they do vary quite a lot in terms of alcohol consumption and peer pressure. In a school where one's roommates are smoking dope for much of the day, life is not necessarily pleasant for the abstainer. These are the reports I am getting from various sources.</p>
<p>I agree that a campus often seems to have either dominate. Personally I would rather be on a campus where pot is the drug of choice, students are less violent/agressive and stupid on pot than they are on alcohol. While I have known students who have died from actions they have taken when drunk, I have not known anyone who has died from smoking pot. I wouldn't advise doing either to excess, or even regularly, and at many top colleges I would think the general class load would preclude getting too far into partying and still being able to do well in class.</p>
<p>Sometimes I really do get tired of people assuming that if your kids did not engage in drinking and experimental behavior in high school, they will go absolutely ape wild in college with it. That is not neccessarily so and it is SO individual. I have kids that have made the decision to not drink and hang out at parties where there is a lot of it...they are not ultra nerds, in fact, they are well liked and respected among their peers. They just have different convictions about it. I have even had high school kids tell me that if my kids don't learn to handle alcohol now, they won't be able to do it in college- so I should just let them drink.Yeah right.They can't believe that my kids have no desire to do that at this point.... I think it is absurd to encourage it in underage students and I have told my kids that when they are of age, it is up to them. But I refuse to serve it to kids in my house, take their keys and have them spend the nite, which goes on all the time in our city. Parents of high school kids need to step up to the plate and parent- we don't have to encourage drinking so they will be "experienced" in college! There...I feel better...</p>
<p>Unfortunately, sometimes the student DOES literally have alcohol forced down his/her throat. A student from our area died at LSU a couple of years ago from this very thing, the night he was selected as a frat pledge. That frat has now been banned from the LSU campus.
Another disturbing trend is the forcing of students to consume gallons of WATER leading to poisoning and death. Some frats and groups are substituting water when hazing with the erroneous idea that it is "safer" than alcohol to binge on.</p>
<p>Article from March 4, 2005 about water binging:</p>
<p>Shutterbug...I'm with you. Yes, it is really an individual thing. My kids did not drink in high school and we certainly would never condone that. That does not make them sheltered and more prone to going overboard in college. I have a college freshman daughter who I know would not do this...I just know her. And I don't think the rule of thumb should be if you are sheltered in high school, you will be a worse alcohol abuser in college. In the case of my niece, SHE was not sheltered and in fact, did drink in high school. Her parents acknowledge that. She was allowed to do way more than my kids ever did in high school. This has now carried on into college where they can do even more of what they want and I get the feeling that her peer group there have some major "party" nights and getting drunk is a part of that. Alcohol abuse is the cause of this medical illness she just got and this is serious business. Even my brother said that kids think they are invincable and it can't happen to them. I believe she will not be able to ever drink again or she will be in serious medical trouble, and that is assuming hopefully that she recovers from this medical condition at present. I am thankful that my own kids are not involved in this but it certainly is prevalent on campus. And it is also prevalent in certain high school communities or peer groups. Certain high school parents allow way way more than we do. And alot of this stuff starts then. That was the case for my niece. And I'm not just talking bad students. She is a good student but definitely a party girl. And that can be exaccerbated when in certain college peer groups or situations if you are a certain type of kid to go for it. As we JUST were visiting her last week by coincidence, I could even tell the talk of was party plans for the night and I got a sense of this before this happened. But as you say, all kids differ in this respect and my own kids do not lean that way and are against that type of behavior and are far too busy with committments to even be able to do it and still meet their commitments, if you know what I mean.</p>
<p>shutterbug312:</p>
<p>I should have elaborated what I meant by "sheltered." Kids who aren't allowed to talk to people of the opposite gender outside of school, kids that are rarely allowed to go out with friends, and kids whose parents have a 24/7 hawkeye on them are ones who are sheltered. When they are given newfound freedoms for the first time in their lives (especially in a college environment), they tend to go extremely wild. I'm not saying that the only sheltered kids are the ones who go crazy, which I inadvertently implied in my first post. I'm simply speaking from experience and what I've seen.</p>
<p>Also, I absolutely agree with you in that parents should not give alcohol to their high school aged kids. I didn't mean to condone underage drinking while in high school.</p>
<p>sorry- it probably seemed like I was ranting and raving in response to ya'lls posts, when in fact, it was more of a knee jerk reaction because I had had a conversation regarding this over the weekend. I understood what you all were saying totally and I roomed with a girl in college myself who had been super sheltered, etc. in high school- she did go off the deep end in college with all the newfound freedom. I only lasted one semester as her room mate.</p>
<p>I just have had it with parents who want to look the other way when their kids are 16, 17 and even 18 and say " well, they are teenagers after all and I would rather they drink at my house so they are not on the road." we send some really weird messages as parents sometimes!</p>
<p>Shutter,</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have even had high school kids tell me that if my kids don't learn to handle alcohol now, they won't be able to do it in college
[/quote]
I actually took heat on occasion from other parents for not thinking that it was ok to serve to minors at parties during my daughter's high school years.....the old "they need experience drinking" argument. </p>
<p>My daughter was offered wine at family dinners during her teen years. Fortunately she was never of a mind to drink just for the sake of getting trashed. I suspect (crossed fingers here) that she is level-headed about her alcohol intake now that she is at college. Many Columbia students have fake ID's to get into clubs even if they go out with no intention of getting drunk. My H and I have talked to her about the fact that she is under 21 and if she is caught with a fake ID at a bar in NYC she could get into trouble. On top of the other possible repercussions, an arrest would not exactly help her get into grad school. </p>
<p>My daughter's experience at college is that alcohol abuse was more visible during her first year at school than this year (her second). Many kids who went crazy during their first semester have settled down. Columbia has a very limited fraternity/sorority presence so the binge drinking that exists certainly can't be blamed on the Greek set.</p>
<p>One thing is for sure - kids these days - many - NOT ALL - sure know how to yes parents to death - tell them what they want to hear - when the real truth is that they may really be participating in things that we may have no real clue about - but when they go off to college - we are highly suspect of what goes on.</p>
<p>If a kid is drinking in college - especially freshman and sophmores - it should be strongly suspected that they were drinking in high school also - somehow - someway. Many parents have blind folds on when it comes to teen drinking - and some kids are REAL good at hiding it also. The binge drinking - for most kids - does appear to decrease as they move thru the college years - thank goodness - must be a maturity thing i hope. That newly found freedom is hard to reel in for many of these kids when they go off to college - and we wish we could keep them in bubble wrap - but we can't - It is sooooooo hard.</p>
<p>This may be underhanded but - oops/sorry - before a kid is 18 and has a physical - if lab work is done - and LFT's are done - this may show if alcohol intake is already a problem - but after they are 18 this would be difficult to discern as the kids do not have to divulge to you what the results are. We do have to realize tho that - yes - the law says they are underage and it is against the law to intake alcohol - they are going to make some choices that we strongly disagree with - and some of these kids will get in trouble or worse because of their actions. There are times that it will take a horrendous experience for some of them to WAKE UP!!! And we parents will pray every day that our kids will make good choices and never have to experience the bad that goes with some choices - I know I do.</p>
<p>I pray every day that my kids will make good choices - and when they don't - that they will learn from them.</p>
<p>Susan: Glad to hear you made it back from BOCO OK; prayers for your niece and her family.</p>