<p>Univ. of OK in Norman.</p>
<p>You might want to PM MTMommy, whose daughter goes to OU for musical theater and who seems to know a lot about the program in general there. FWIW, I have heard good things about the training offered at Hartt.
iwsact, are you auditioning for Boston U? I was interested to hear that you consider Penn State a safety, as its MT program is very, very competitive admissions-wise. Is the straight acting BFA less so, or are you just confident? 
(From the sound of it, you should be!) :)</p>
<p>Hi Ian (iwsact). Glad to see that you are getting involved in the search process. You are on the school’s computer? You better be. CCers are good people. Get some of your BU summer friends on this site. See you later. Dad.</p>
<p>Thanks briansteffy. My son lovesthe BFA program at NYU. But as far as a second choice, we have been going around in circles regarding Muhlenberg and Vassar. Vassar is clearly a better school academically, but the theater program seems great at Muhlenberg and we have gotten a very warm feeling there at our visits. Enjoy your visit there for the open house. We were not as impressed with Skidmore when we visited.</p>
<p>Brian, every time I see a post from you, I think of my visit to the Wilbur Bud factory in Lititz. I also have a vague memory of a lovely town park with a pond and swans? Is that correct?</p>
<p>NMR: I told my son to get into this process> He communicates with kids on myspace that are looking at acting programs, but they largely share bad information.
Just to clarify; Penn State’s Acting (Performance) program is a BA, though they require an audition. The feedback we have gotton thus far is less than encouraging re: this program. My S auditioned at BU and got positive feedback. We will forward the common application, etc. to them, but they are really stringent in granting tuition exchange (about 5 out of 100 accepted to the Univ.). We does not stand a chance unless his SAT scores increase about 250 points. Syracuse is great. You get accepted, you get tuition exchange (85% of tuition paid, including study abroad). CMU, NYU and Miami are not in the tution exchange program. My school only gives $6k/year to employee kids who go to a non-tuition exchange schools. Consequently, we are limiting the S to reasonably priced state schools (rules out UMICH, UCONN, U.ILL - Rutgers and Guthrie are borderline) and tuition exchange colleges that are liberal in granting exchange grants. We are not willing to go into debt, as we paln to retire the year after he would graduate. Its complex. This is why, to this point, I have been so involved. I should hang a shingle outside my door and get into the admissions counsling business. I was once a psychiatric social worker, so these talents might be useful.
CCers: talk to my son. I will chime in on matters not concerning him/us.</p>
<p>Brian, that’s wonderful that your son already has his Boston U audition and actually got positive feedback on the spot. That’s a positive sign as far as his abilities, dontcha think? In any case, thanks for the info on PSU’s BA acting program, and I can completely relate to your thought processes on the finances of this whole college thing.</p>
<p>NMR: Lititz is listed in ‘100 prettiest towns’. It has gotton real nice over the years. It used to be a commune under the Moravian church in the 18th/19th century. Apparently, when Hayden visited America, he drew heavily from the Lititz commune for musicians, as brass music was something that everybody played. I grew up in a town five miles away that was another commune during the same period. My family owned the farm that overlooksthe commune, the Ephrata Cloister. This commune was somewhat bizarre, its story told in Thomas Mann’s ‘Doctor Faustus’. Of course, neither of these commune got along with the Amish and Mennonites who were also in the County. Its actually a vey interesting area, though the northeast neurosis has displaced the areas unique identity.
The Choc. factory is still up and running, as is the park. The town, however, is going through some pains right now, as a group of stupid high school students placed nooses around the school. No community is immune from ignorance.</p>
<p>Omigosh, another Lititz flashback: I visited the Cloister and was, well, transfixed! I remember looking at those beds of stone that the people slept upon and wondering how anyone could (and those of you who are religious, please forgive me!) keep his mind on God when he was trying to sleep on a hard, cold stone! Lititz, is, indeed, lovely. My husband (a newspaper reporter in the past and editor now) actually wrote an article about Lititz as a great day trip destination. Every so often, we talk about taking the kids there for a nice day, but so far, we have never gotten around to it. And you’re right: no town or city, for that matter, is immune from ignorance.</p>
<p>Im a transfer student and transfer deadlines for schools are later than freshmen deadlines but audition dates (mainly the unifeds) are the same.. I was just wondering how fast do audition dates fill up. Do I need to start soon or can I wait closer to the transfer and audition deadlines?!?! thank you for any help</p>
<p>Brian and Not Momma and others: You guys have a lot of info to share! I appreciate all of your comments, and I am overwhelmed, too! Although my son has already applied to 10 schools and has visited 8 of them (plus a few others that have been rejected), we are very behind in identifying “safeties” as I think I have told you in PMs. Further, although I thought we started this process early enough, we really haven’t visited a sufficient number of programs, especially non-audition BA programs. I have looked carefully at the lists of non-audition BA programs you mention, Brian, and I have tried to figure out which ones are MOST like the BFA programs (particularly in terms of coursework–i.e., NOT requiring too much in the liberal arts category). And, I have been hoping to see ones that do not look so much at the SAT (grades are OK!). Can you help with a FEW names? I suppose that to put in a good application at these schools one must also develop a relationship with the Admissions counselor, so if we’re going that route, I guess we’d better get moving! I will say again that my son does not wish to attend such a program. . .but I’m not sure he’s 100% sure he wants to just sit out a year, either.</p>
<p>Also, two of the schools SAY they have not received SAT scores. In both cases, I have e-mails indicating they were SENT to schools via the Internet on September 4th. Now what do I do???</p>
<p>letsfigureitout: Or anybody with S/D who is considered ‘average’.
See <a href=“http://www.fairtest.com%5B/url%5D”>www.fairtest.com</a> for SAT optional school. Add to that list Drew University, which has a good LAC-Theater program for someone like my S.
Also, consider low-SAT BFA programs, for example, NCARTS, Hartt, and Webster (though with this one, except perhaps for the BFA program, they teach primarily using adjuncts - not good, and the reason we took it off our list - read the small print in the college guides, as there is decent info. upon which to make inferences about colleges). Obviously Juilliard discounts the SAT and it looks like it it pretty irrelevant for Purchase.
Also consider good BFA programs that either do not require the SAT or that allow for low scores - West Virginia University, University of Wyoming (have heard good things, though Laramie is not a great place), and Univ. of Montana BFA - Missoula is a skier’s, whitewater rafter’s, hiker’s, cyclist’s outdoorsy-type’s dream). Also, if you are from the northeast, accept that going west, south, or to the midwest (exclude top level BFAs from this argument) will help. My S is getting calls from four midwestern colleges and they do not even have his records - they are all top-75 LACs.
The problem about a LAC (I now teach at one, so I am a devotee) is that, with few exceptions, they have, over the past decades, increased the number of general requirements. Some, for example, now require three (not two) years of language. Now, its hard to argue against the language thing, but when you add this requirement to the core curriculum (freshman seminars, etc.), distribution requirements, etc., there may be little left for your primary interest - theater. Though my son has three years of HS German, in the tough LACs you will be reading Thomas Mann in German by the 300 level course - most college kids cannot read his novels in translation. He therefore would have to go back to college German 101, given the poor quality of his HS education (though he has straight As in German). Of course, a theater major will have lots of opportunities to be involved in productions (big fish in small pond in many cases). But, as I have heard some students say, it’s a killer when you get back from a production run at 11PM and you have a chemistry (and at a tough LAC you are in there with kids who are killing themselves to get into med school, and the chem course serves as a device to cut down the number of kids who get into med school) and German 301 exam the next day. I am staging a worst case scenario and playing devil’s advocate here, but it is a scenario worth consideration. A competitive LAC is tough; not like going to XYZ state. Last year I delivered the same class at two colleges - my employer, a tough LAC and a large Big Ten univ. where I had to substitute for a guy who died the previous summer (lots of the MT types are applying to this Univ). I gave my typical LAC exam to the large state univ. kids; very few passed what my LAC kids took for a normal essay exam. Active theater kids may have their hands full in a tough LAC. As good actors, they already hold themselves to high standards and work their butts off to meet those standards, but some of their other requirements will have standards that are just as high. Whether a student can handle tis pressure is something that has to be addressed with the S/D. Of course, a BFA program is a 9-9 job, but, as my son sees it, its work that he wants to do, and he is working with the students that he has become tight with. Its like being an entrepreneur. It;s your’ business. In an LAC that 9-9 shift may seem a lot longer.</p>
<p>Once one gets beyond the ‘that is where I would like to go’ BFA programs (CMU, NYU, CCM, BU, etc.), the decision-making process as to where to apply gets tough. For example, do I apply to LAC XYZ where I might be somewhat unhappy (or unexpectedly pleased) and find that two thirds of the courses I take are non-theater, or do I go to a place like the Univ. of Montana (or Wyoming, or Auburn, or West Virginia), which is comparatively cheap, is not that large, is one of the most beautiful spots on the planet (cannot say this about Auburn), and has a BFA program with modern, state-of the art facilities - compare them with the top-ranked programs.
The problem gets even more complex when the LAC one is considering is not well known. Obviously a degree in theater from Vassar can still get you a job in an investment banking firm or top consulting from. Get a 2.75 and you have a home in a law school. A 3.50 from a low ranked LAC may not even get you into a law school. Is it worth spending lots of money on a regional LAC when you can get a BA theater degree from your local state univ., assuming a person is not wealthy and paying out of pocket? ‘taxguy’ ran a long thread on this issue. I followed that thread and it helped clarify, given my personal circumstances, that it made little sense to blow all of the educational money pool on the undergrad degree - LAC or BFA (we can send our S to BU, NYU, CMU if we deplete the pool of money reserved for his education - we will not, a decision made with my S). Why not leave a large pile of money there for that rainy day when there is that likely realization; I have not made it in acting; peraps now is a good time to get an MFA and teach, or to get an MBA, or to do who knows what.<br>
These are the issues (getting in; no significant scholarship money) for those of us with S/D’s who did not do real well in HS. And, by the way, demographers tell us that if you are a HS senior this year, you are at the peak of the echo boom; most colleges will break their application record this year (low selection ratios). Many broke it last year because the demographic curve is on the upswing. It’s going to be even harder for our kids.
So, we are planning with these realities in mind. But, as I think I have mentioned before, so-called average students, those of us with S/D’s who will not get special recognition at their HS graduation (my S wins the ‘short leash’ award most years and he was an all-county noseguard at only 165 pounds; that’s it) have to play the game the best they can with the cards they now hold. The rules of the existing game is based upon a system that requires that the S/D has cognitively, socially, and emotionally peaked, during ages 14-17. Well, mine is just moving up the curve now (highest grade in most of his classes), but it is too late to play with the Ivies, sub-ivies, and NYUers at this time. So what he has to do is optimize his current situation, get into a decent BFA or LAC, give the theater world his best shot, perhaps resort to the money left aside for grad school or whatever, and take another shot. How does the Dylan song go? “We will meet again on the way down”.
Obviously I will run thru my neighborhood cheering if my son gets into Guthrie, Rutgers, or Syracuse, but that’s unlikely, given the numbers and his resume (lack of). But we can find aother home, and my son and I can have a nice jog and talk about our new baseline. The SAT scores, resume, and HS GPA will no longer matter. The record is clean. Now what?
Many of us have lived this story. As I think I told you, for me, it was a ‘trip’ (in the 60s ‘trip’ was a verb) interviewing for the Graduate faculty at MIT and Cornell as a graduate of SUNY-Utica 15 years earlier, a college (if that is what it was) where the classes were held in an abandoned factory. I did not get an offer, but it was my ‘Rocky’ moment.
Sorry again for the rant, but the TCM movies are not very good today.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your “thoughts,” or rants, or whatever. Once again, I am convinced that, for my son, the BFA is the way to go. Has anyone interested in ACTING visited the program at WVU, Montana (ohhh. ..beautiful!), Hartt or others mentioned? We’re visiting NCARTS in a few weeks.</p>
<p>Also, Brian, on the college visits last spring, we were specifically told that grades, scores, and resume really do not matter much for getting in to most BFA programs. It’s the audition. (One exception: BU, where it is characterized as 50-50, academics-audition). My son’s already in (academically) at Point Park and Otterbein (but, it’s the getting in to the conservatory part of the program that will be important).</p>
<p>Briansteffy, where do you teach at? Are you allowed to say on this board?</p>
<p>letsfigureitout, Boston U is not the only school that counts academics “heavily”: NYU makes no secret of the fact that a candidate’s high school transcript, SAT scores and essays do make a difference. One thing that should console you and Brian somewhat as the parents of sons is that the admissions pool for male actors isn’t quite as big as it is for females, so that lessens the competition somewhat. Which is not to say (before all you XY chromosome bearers get all het up!) that it is not competitive at all; it sure is!! But it is pretty universally acknowledged that there are less males going into the acting field and, for that matter, less boys applying to college than there are girls overall. Thus, boys (even in the regular – non BFA – admissions game) have a slight advantage, as college administrations like to try to keep their populations of male to female close to 50-50. Now, as the mom of a girl, this doesn’t comfort me at all! :)</p>
<p>Well, as a mom of a S, it comforts me a lot!</p>
<p>My son is not applying to NYU–IN PART because of the “academic qualifications” that are necessary, but for other reasons as well. I just meant that these kids might have a better shot at getting into a great school when their “other” talents are considered more heavily than they might be for a non audition program. And, quite frankly, I was surprised to learn that the resume, letters, and grades were sooooo secondary! You are right, though, about the boy-girl thing. . .we have heard that alot, too!</p>
<p>Anyone looked at Wright? Looks like a good program, not difficult to get into the college itself. Problem, only a few audition times and we cannot make any of them.</p>
<p>We live near Wright State and have applied as it does have a good theatre program. We are going up to see West Side Story there next weekend. The academic side of the school is not the most challenging, but it would cost less per year than my D’s highschool, so that is a plus. : ) We know several girls who are freshmen there this year, so we are going to find out how they feel about the program after they have been there at least a semester. Since you can’t make any of the audtions will they accept a video?</p>
<p>Don’t know about the video. Will have to check on that. I have gotten the impression that is not the best way to go. Wondering if anyone has thoughts on that. Some schools require you live a certain number of miles away before they will accept a video. I would have no clue how to do that, although my son probably knows.</p>