<p>Thesbo - That sounds like the old marine guy on the history channel but you forgot to say "URRAH!" Imagine L-dawg in cammies. hehehe ... Kill kill kill ... You oughtta get some yourself my sweet drama marine. You would look hawt!</p>
<p>I've just noticed that Ithaca College seems to have significantly changed the Acting BFA requirements in the last few months. The change does not appear in the 2004-05 college catalog but does show up in the Department Handbook (p. 91-95) available at:
<a href="http://departments.ithaca.edu/theatre/current/docforms/%5B/url%5D">http://departments.ithaca.edu/theatre/current/docforms/</a></p>
<p>I"ve summarized what the changes seem to be below, in case anyone on this discussion would find it helpful. </p>
<p>2003-2004
credits in major: 78
credits outside major: 42
required - 9
electives - 33
gen ed - 0</p>
<p>2004-2005
credits in major: 78
credits outside major: 42
required - 9
electives - 0
gen ed - 33 (include 2 science and 1 math course)</p>
<p>Wonder why the change?</p>
<p>Chrism:</p>
<p>I think you ought to write to Lee Byron, the department chair, and ask him. He's a good guy, and should give you a straightforward response. You can reach him at</p>
<p><a href="mailto:lbyron@ithaca.edu">lbyron@ithaca.edu</a></p>
<p>Grrrrrrr @ math & lab science requirements for arts majors! With a lot of artsy people it's like teaching a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig! I know this from trying to tutor people who really were trying but just couldn't get it. Science and higher math are as out of some artists' realm of talents and abilities as performing Shakespeare may be to a physicist. They dont make engineering majors take acting classes or chemistry majors take dance. Why does an actor need calculus? It's totally pushing the river for a lot of people and more than one very talented student won't make it in some of these programs because of it. Im actually pretty good at them, but my APs have been the bane of my existence in trying to grow as an actress. Better now than later, but it's a total energy suck. Im glad all my schools accept AP credit so I wont have to mess with that high-maintenance dookie anymore ... assuming I make a 4 or better on my Biology exam in May that is. Out of my life, I say! </p>
<p>I really do like the Ithaca facultys statement to first year performance majors, though. All schools should have something like this </p>
<p>A Note to all First Year Performance Majors:
Your goal in coming here is to become a better performer.
Our goal is to help you.
We have expertise and experience that you dont yet have, so your relationship with us is that of client to professional.
We will do everything we know how to do to help your acting become more believable and more interesting to watch.
Young actors are often rewarded for being precocious and clever.
We seek to move you beyond those qualities so that you actually get an audience to care about your characters situation.
The audience will care about your acting if you understand your characters thoroughly, identify with them imaginatively and project them vividly through your movement and voice.
To do these things, you must exercise your intellect, your imagination, your breath, your bones and your muscles.
If you manage to set these systems into coordinated action, your passions may also get a chance to flourish.
You may have come to Ithaca with no technique at allor with technique that is flawed or simplistic. Or your technique may already be quite sound.
While we do not profess to have the magic key to good acting, we can, among the various faculty, point you in some directions that will make your acting more exciting, more plausible, more fun for you to do and more reliable.
Reliable in the sense of having a methodology that you can use in a
variety of situationsespecially in situations where you are given little or no guidance.
You will have learning experiences over the next months and years that will reward you, experiences that will frustrate you, even experiences that may seem threatening to you.
Often times the hardest part of creative work is overcoming your fear of failure.
Failure is an inevitable part of the creative process.
If you let yourself fail on a grand scale, accept un-defensively the suggestions made to you in the wake of your failure, and decide how you want to change things for next time, you can have a lot of fun failing. And a lot of success.
To be specific, in your first two years, you will be taught to let go of some old and much loved habits and tensions and rationalizations about your acting, your voice and your movement.
You will be taught to pursue character objectives that you would never pursue in life.
You will be taught to analyze and specify and justify the minutest aspects of character behavior.
You will be taught to embrace hopeful, positive acting choices just when you are feeling your most pessimistic.
You will be taught to move very freely and very precisely.
You will be taught to use your voice and to make speech sounds in ways that may be unfamiliar to you.
You will be expected to inspire the trust and confidence of your classmates that you will meet your shared obligations.
You will be expected to give credit where it is due in your writing and research so that you will be taken seriously when you become the sole author of your artistic accomplishments.
If you develop a reputation as a plagiarist (an intellectual thief, really), no one will believe you when you do create something original.
You hope, after all, to be recognized for what you createnot for your ability to masquerade as
someone else, imitating or appropriating their work. Where is the satisfaction in that?
There may come times when you feel alone or alienated or confused or envious or inadequate.
You may feel competitive with your peers.
You may feel misunderstood and unappreciated by your teachers.
The first thing to know is that these are feelings that you create within yourselfnobody else gives them to you.
When you have these feelings, you can do two things: fall victim to them, or do something about them.
Talk to your friends, talk to your family, talk to us.
We are very much on your side.
We want you to succeed.
When you succeed, we succeed as well.
We are committed to teaching you the skills of voice, movement and acting that will enable you to realize the unique artistic potential which is yours alone.
The most responsible thing we can do for you is to react honestly to your work, both when you take a step forward and when you take a step backward.
In the end, however, you will be the author of your success.</p>
<p>Thesbohemian-</p>
<p>Thank you for posting the Ithica statement. I enjoyed reading it and will pass it on to my students.</p>
<p>I am glad I finally found this thread again. I thought it had disappeared.</p>
<p>My son, who is applying to a number of BFA/Acting programs nationwide, has been accepted by Columbia College Chicago. He feels good knowing he has been accepted somewhere as he completes his BFA auditions this week. However, we can't seem to find out very much about this school and its BFA/Acting program. We understand it has a rather open-admissions policy, but wondered if anyone here had heard of it or has any information about its program? Thanks!!</p>
<p>My D met with a representative from Columbia College at a performing arts college fair a couple of years ago. She was interested in pursuing a BFA in musical theatre. She was told that Columbia is a non-audition program for both acting and MT. Their rep said that their philosophy is that auditions are inherently unfair and that bright, motivated students will do well at their school. Northwestern, which has a very well-regarded drama program, is also a non-audition program. NW believes that success in acting hinges more on brains and hard work than innate talent. My guess is that Columbia feels the same.</p>
<p>According to their website, "Students interested in pursuing the BFA in Acting will be eligible to declare their intention upon admission to the college. Continuance in the BFA Acting program is contingent upon a number of factors, including maintaining a 2.5 grade point average in the major courses, perfromance assessment, and adherence to the curricular structure." </p>
<p>For what it is worth, I remember seeing somewhere that approximately 90% of the students at Columbia come from the Chicago area.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any experience with or comments on the BA drama departments at Dartmouth, Brown, Vassar, Kenyon, University of Virginia, UNC Chapel Hill or UC Irvine? Can anybody recommend some other good BA programs in semi-selective colleges? I want to try for a few top BFAs in liberal arts colleges like Evansville and SMU, but I think they will be a big reach for me since I don't have as much experience and training as the art school kids or those who have been doing theatre their whole lives. I also sent emails to the heads of acting at some of the top MFA schools and the ones who replied said they recommend a well rounded BA at a good college followed up with an MFA anyway. I took Doctorjohn's test and could go either way based on that. In case nobody remembers my old posts, I am a sophomore and plan to graduate early next year since my family moves around all the time and I don't want to risk being a senior at a new high school. I have already been to three high schools in three states in two years, but Mom will stay here with me until the end of next school year if Dad gets transferred again. Any advice or help will elicit much love. :)
Kel</p>
<p>Thesbohemian, I only partly agree with your post. Your post assumes that the sole purpose of a college education for a theater major is to develop good acting/voice or dancing skills that will enable you to get a job. I guess there are those that have that understanding. </p>
<p>Although building good skills for some future position is important, in my opinion, college is much more than that. First, you never know where you will end up; thus, preparing solely for the theater may well do many people a disservice.</p>
<p>Secondly, college is designed to build broad based thinking, writing, reading and analytical skills while teaching you how to "learn to learn." This is fundamental to a quality college education in my opinion. You may not believe that having strong writing or math skills is imporant in life,but I can assure you that it is. This is also a reason many companies hire college graduates without always considering their major. They too believe that, if you graduated from a college, you will be ingrained with these skills regardless of the major.</p>
<p>Thirdly, I do personally agree that a broad based college education should not have to include science or calculus. However, some broad based math course should be taught as should writing courses, as should courses that requre good intensive reading and studying. However, I personally would not require science or calculus ( unless you were a science or math major and maybe (arguably) some business majors)</p>
<p>Fourthly: Most sucessful folks on TV and theater do have broad based skills, contrary to what you may believe. They usually are quite bright, well-read, good writers, can speak very well and market themselves well, and have a fair degree of both common sense and analytical sense. Obviously there are exceptions,but most of the sucessful folks that I have met have these skills.</p>
<p>My feeling is that if building a specific set of theatrical skills is solely your goal then you shouldn't necessarily be in college. There are many fine training academies and instructors to teach these skills. If, however, you want many of these skills and also skills necessary to build up your thought process in a number of areas, a college education will fulfill that bill. I guess that you have to sort your priorities out.</p>
<p>Kel:</p>
<p>I wrote about this last year, in Part 10 of the MT forum. Here's the link:</p>
<p>Scroll down to my post on March 27, 2004 (almost to the bottom of the thread.) All of the midwestern schools listed have fine Theatre programs.</p>
<p>You clearly took some initiative in writing to heads of top MFA programs. You could do the same thing by writing to the Chairs of the various KC/ACTF Regions, and asking which colleges are active in their regions. My list is based on personal experience in Region III, which consists of Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio. If you get good responses, I encourage you to post them here.</p>
<p>And don't sell yourself short on Evansville or SMU. You might be a very good match for SMU's BFA in Theatre Studies.</p>
<p>While I don't have detailed information about the schools you listed, I can tell you that Dartmouth, Vassar and Brown, in particular, have very good reputations for theatre programs going back 50 years and more. I suspect the others do as well, but I'll defer to others to speak to Kenyon, Virginia, Chapel Hill and Irvine.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Taxguy,
First, I would recommend that you look at the schedules acting students at some of the better schools offering BFA degrees undertake. Its nothing like Business or some of the other generic majors with which you are familiar. These programs can be extremely intense with the theatre related courses taking the better part of the day and rehearsal and tech time often extending well into the night and early morning hours. There simply arent enough hours in the day for a student who doesnt have much aptitude for science and math to spend a meaningful amount of time on them. In fact, I have talked to numerous students in these programs and they say the math and science component has all too often been a major source of burnout, head-banging, and failure for their classmates. To a person, they recommend getting as many extraneous GE distractions out of the way through AP and community college courses as possible. </p>
<p>Secondly, your post assumes that a broad based education is the goal of all college programs which is simply not true. Look at the distinction between a BFA</a> and a BA degree. A BFA is not intended to be broad based. It offers pre-professional training and generally cuts the broad based GE requirements back to a minimum. It is intended for those who have made the decision that they wish to prepare for a life in the professional theatre. I happen to be one of those people. As to the value of such training in the broad based sense, Ill refer you to the third paragraph of Doctorjohns post on this thread of October 14, 2004 at 10:21 p.m. where he speaks very eloquently on the subject. Those who have been through twelve years of school and still feel they need to learn to learn and get a broad based education in the conventional sense should get a BA degree with plans to train professionally later in an MFA program or a professional studio. I honestly believe that may be a better route for a lot of people though it wouldnt be right for me for a lot of reasons. </p>
<p>Lets see Im a National Merit Finalist and will likely be an AP Scholar with Distinction entering college with credit for AP English Language and Composition, English Composition and Literature, Spanish, U.S. History, European History, Calculus BC, Chemistry, and Biology. Ill also bring credit from a community college for Introductory Psychology. As for broad based education, Ive paid my dues - thank you very much - and will be able to focus primarily on my major while taking some upper level courses of my choice in history, cultural anthropology, and possibly Russian language after finishing off the two to four GE courses Ill have left depending on where I go. I think I also generally qualify as being quite bright, well-read, [a] good writer, can speak very well (Im an actress fer Chrissakes!) and market [myself] well, and have a fair degree of both common sense and analytical sense. I dont see how sitting in a large auditorium full of students being taught some shallow level of understanding on a general subject by a professor who would rather be doing research or teaching an upper level class would augment those qualities to any significant degree. Ive certainly learned to learn and as for whether or not I should be in college or have my priorities sorted out, Ill defer to the colleges which have already offered me large academic scholarships. BTW, since youre a tax guy, maybe you can give me some advice on how stacked college and outside scholarships exceeding full tuition and room & board need to be reported. ;)</p>
<p>I will admit that part of the motivation behind my rant on this topic is selfish. Theatre is a collaborative art and there will likely come a time in the next four years when I find myself working with a scene partner who wont have time enough to devote to a project because of being forced to spend on inordinate amount of energy on some high-maintenance GE for which he is simply inept. My grade will depend on that persons performance as much as my own and you can be certain Ill be silently cursing the powers that be who put me in the position of needing to spend my own time giving the appearance of happily tutoring him.</p>
<p>From what you posted, I fully concede that you are probably in the top tier of academically qualified kids who are applying to theater programs. However, most programs are designed for the majority of kids and not just you! If you are that academically qualified and are an AP scholar, which my daughter also is, you can place out of most courses anyway. </p>
<p>Also, as I noted in my post, I agree that there shouldn't be a science requirement. I am in agreement with you.</p>
<p>As for your opinion that a BFA program should not also provide student with a broad based education, I can't agree nor do I think that any college program administrator would agree with you. I do know that a BFA in art provides a wide variety of courses ( although not necessarily in math and science) outside of the pure studio art mold, atleast if that school wants to be accredited. For most kids, I certainly feel that having some broad based education is preferable Maybe you are the exception,but colleges don't generally allow exceptions for certain students no matter how brilliant. That may not be fair or even right,but it is a fact in most cases. </p>
<p>Maybe you should look for schools that have no core requrements such as Brown. I don't know if there are any good schools with top theater programs that have no core requirements. That might be a good thread to see if anyone knows of any. I do know that Brown has no core requirements. I don't know how good their theater program is.</p>
<p>However, I wish you well. Simply place out of as much as possible, and this whole issue becomes moot.</p>
<p>Taxguy,
Its not a matter of should or shouldnt. The fact is that around 60-70% of a BFA curriculum concentrates on theatre with 20-25% in general education and 10-15% in electives. It would be interesting to find the actual standards, but Ill hypothesize that is somewhere around the bare minimum of GEs to stay accredited. Ive yet to find a BFA school that doesnt have a minimum GE core. Even the American conservatories have an abbreviated one. The broad-based BA on the other hand concentrates 20-25% of the curriculum in theatre with 60-65% in general education and 10-20% in electives. </p>
<p>Browns program is a BA and would be all wrong for me. I dont think any of the Ivy League schools offer a BFA though they can be great springboards to the MFA for those who have talent to go with their brains and big wallets. </p>
<p>Im glad we agree on the science requirements though most of my schools have them sitting there just waiting to be killed off with APs. (mwahaha) Ill also agree that to function in the world, the average person needs to be able to use a calculator to add, subtract, multiply, divide, and maybe understand percentages. Youre not supposed to be able to graduate high school without knowing that; but, much beyond is superfluous to most and those who are bad at it in high school stand little chance of suddenly getting it in college. That doesnt mean theyre not intelligent, either. There are different types of intelligence and most brilliant creative sorts I know tend to be somewhat lacking in left hemispheric skills much like many left brained science and math types lack people skills.</p>
<p>Yes, they may have the bare minimum to stay accredited,but they do meet the minimum standards. Moreover, some schools take this GE standard to heart and some will simply give lip service to the GE requirements. Frankly, I don't feel any school should give lip service to the GE requirement for the cogent reasons given above,but I know it happens.</p>
<p>Doctorjohn, Thank you. I will write to the KC/ACTF people and I'll also write to the department chairs of the schools to see if they will tell me where their recent graduates have gone for MFAs. That should tell me something. Exactly how hard is it to get accepted to the top MFAs compared to the top BFAs? As I understand, the admission rate to the BFAs is around five percent. Is it lower for the MFAs?
Kel</p>
<p>Kel:</p>
<p>It's been awhile since I've been directly involved in an MFA program. (I chaired one at Illinois State, but my current place has only undergraduate programs.) But I used to do the U/RTA tour, and the number of students auditioning for MFAs was much lower than the numbers I now see for BFA programs. You could ask the program directors at Yale, NYU, ACT and UCSD; they are probably seeing the highest numbers in the country. But I suspect it's more like 100-200 than the 250-900 which the top BFA programs claim to be seeing. That would mean that the acceptance rate is higher than for BFA programs. But I could be wrong. If you do hear from them, let us know what you find out.</p>
<p>If you'd like to read more about graduate schools, take a look at the U/RTA website. The four schools I named are not members, but the U/RTA schools would rank just underneath them. Here's the link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.urta.com/Members.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.urta.com/Members.htm</a></p>
<p>Good hunting!</p>
<p>Thesbo - You dont have to take calculus at most colleges thank god. I would never pass. its like college algebra which is bad enough if your terrible at math like me. I am so gonna get tutored all summer to try to test out or get way ahead if i have to take it. You can take rocks for jocks - and actors? - for one of the science requirments. Now I need you to kindly get your butt back to school to give this widdle piggy some singing lessons in AP Bio so I dont have to take it in summer school after freshman year. Please please please please PLEASE let me get in CMU or LIPA so I dont have to deal with it at all.</p>
<p>Thesbo, there are a number of schools that do not require theatre majors to take many courses outside of the discipline. Those who want to take that tack can certainly do so. But there are schools that do have kids from a variety of backgrounds and want them on the same academic footing or as close as possible. Therefore, the required core. Also, universities often want majors of all disciplines to take courses with ea</p>
<p>This is a fascinating discussion. BA followed by MFA is a track we hadn't considered at all, but which might actually fit my D better. Does anyone know a general article or link where the merits of an MFA are discussed? After trying to educate myself for months in order to be able to discuss this stuff with my D, I find I know nothing about the MFA. Except that it will cost more. :-)</p>
<p>OK, I just re-read Doctorjohn's great post of Monday, June 14, 2004 - 10:54 pm about the BA and BFA, in which he mentions the MFA. That helps. It's funny how this information means more, or reads entirely differently once you've been through 7 months of auditions and applications and visits.</p>