"They should close every liberal arts college down!"

Engineering is not a liberal arts major, agreed. It is a professional major. It teaches one to solve complex problems of a technical nature in the professional practice of engineering. Physics and math aren’t liberal arts majors either, as they are of course concentrated in physics and math (at least they were at my school).

They are, in fact.

And on “the L word”:

I agree that engineering is a profession and its practitioners are properly considered professionals. But it is not a “learned profession.” Ever since the emergence of universities in medieval Europe, the term “learned profession” has referred only to theology, law, and medicine.

Oh, and by that definition, engineering is also a vocation, as are the learned professions.

The modern definition of “learned” includes any profession in which specialized and high level training and education is required and a high level of intellectual and analytical ability is required to do the work, not just theology, law, and medicine. Learning and learned factor equally in many fields not only those three. I laugh at theology. Theology has no “correct” or “incorrect”. The old European model is long since overcome by events.

Incidentally, even that crusted old European definition defines law, medicine, and theology as “vocations” - as I said in my earlier post. We aren’t living in the middle ages anymore.

@OHmom - A physics or math major that is specialized or concentrated in physics or math (as any actual rigorous physics or math major would be) is not liberal arts by definition. The definition you posted - “subjects such as mathematics and sciences” means that a true liberal arts curriculum covers a wide range of subjects and a plurality of sciences - not just physics and math, or exclusively professional training. Again, a physics major in which most of the courses are specific to physics for example is by definition not a liberal arts major.

A physics or mathematics curriculum that concentrates on those subjects with the intention of producing a person capable of being a physicist or mathematician as a profession and doing physics and mathematical work is also a professional (or “vocational” course as you might say) course of study, not liberal arts. By definition, liberal arts is not specific to a specific subject or profession/vocation.

If you define as “vocational” as anything that involves performing a specific job or line of work, then by that definition again, medicine, law, and theology are also vocations, but if you ask a lawyer, physician, or clergyperson if they consider what they do to be vocational they likely will answer with an indignant huff that “I’m a professional, not a tradesperson”, because those fields require specialized training and a high level of analytical reasoning capability, as does engineering.

@tdy123, can you hook your friend up with my rising college senior? :wink:

Can you share where you have found such a definition @Engineer80 ?

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