Things I learned my freshman year at Penn/Wharton

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>I think these are some key points that would benefit any incoming freshmen or anyone looking at Penn/Wharton--I definitely learned these this past year.</p>

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<li><p>Many people here are brilliant, but sometimes not in ways that are immediately telling—or sometimes the opposite. One of my friends I knew as an incredible writer on international politics…and then I found out she’s also in one of the crazier sororities. That’s Penn. We occasionally get flack for not being intellectual enough, but in my opinion anyone who says that is looking only at the surface. Just because you’re in a frat does not mean you’re not a brilliant, incredibly driven, and thoughtful person. </p></li>
<li><p>The Penn/Wharton divide is a silly notion. The most telling thing about this divide? On Wall Street, everyone who went to Penn/Wharton says they went to Penn. Never, ever Wharton. Most of these people are in fact from Wharton, because it’s Wall Street, but they all went to Penn. There are probably lots of reasons for this—to appear as a unified alumni body, to acknowledge Penn is a formidable school no matter what you studied, to not come off as someone so preoccupied with Wharton academia that you never had a well-rounded college experience, and so on. Wharton attracts a certain kind of person, just as nursing or engineering does. Stop worrying what school you’re in and start focusing on finding people you like hanging out with. </p></li>
<li><p>GPA can matter. It’s easy to get Bs and damn hard to get As or Cs (speaking for curved classes here). Let’s face it—you were probably the smartest kid in your high school, but there will be a few kids who never go out, aren’t in any clubs, and spend every minute studying—and they will be the people who always do better than you. Deal with it. Likewise, there will be a few kids who shouldn’t be at Penn but for some reason are. Instead of lamenting how much harder you had to work to get in than they did, revel in the fact that they’re there to save you from the bottom end of the curve. You will, statistically, probably be near the average. In Wharton and pre-med (and other areas I’m sure), GPA does matter, because it can determine what opportunities are and aren’t available to you upon graduation. Generally top banks don’t give interviews to students with below a 3.4/3.5, and the most coveted jobs (private equity/hedge funds) really only take from the cream of the crop (think 3.8). Penn Med’s average undergrad GPA is 3.84. So GPA may be really important to you if you want to have the best opportunities when you graduate. It's important to keep it in perspective--your Penn degree puts you above most everyone else when it's time to get a job, unless you want to work at Goldman Sachs, in which case you're only competing against other Ivy Leaguers; then your GPA becomes very important.</p></li>
<li><p>Here is how grading works: In smaller, “soft” classes, it’s up to the discretion of the professor who gets what grade, though they’ll probably be fair. In larger courses, particularly in Wharton or math/science classes, your raw performance for the semester will be ranked against everyone else in the class, and then the percentile in which you fall will determine what letter grade you receive (the cutoffs are roughly 30-40-30 for Wharton, and harsher in the sciences), which is then converted to a 4 point scale. In some classes (like OPIM 101) it’s exact: 4% gets A+, 9% A, 17% A-, 24% B+, 20% B, 14% B-, 8% C+, 4% C- and below. So 13% get a 4.0, 12% get a 2.3 or below, and 75% fall somewhere in between a 3.7 and a 2.7. I personally love this system, because it largely removes variation in professor and course difficulty, making GPAs for students in Wharton/pre-med/other areas where GPA matters a realistic representation of how well you perform relative to everyone else. And when the average score on a final is a 52%, you’ll be glad that’s how it works.</p></li>
<li><p>Clubs are incredibly competitive and as much social outlets as extracurriculars. Performance groups and any group that has a 5-12-member board serving a large group body (many Wharton groups are like this) are all going to have way too many over-eager freshmen applying for only a couple spots, usually in the first two months of school. You sing a cappella? So do 300 other freshmen, so don’t put all your eggs in one basket; instead try out for a bunch of them. You’ll get one, even if it isn’t Glee. I got rejected by more Penn clubs than I did colleges, but now I’m in three and I love them all. And be aware that you’ll go to BYOs, pre-games, and parties with these people all the time (this seems to be somewhat unique to Penn), so join a club where you actually like the people!</p></li>
<li><p>Penn is a fairly pre-professional school. When 40% of the class is in a specialized school—Wharton, Nursing, or Engineering—it’s hard not to be. There are obviously plenty of the 10,000 undergrads who have no idea what they want, but Penn seems to have more people who know that they want to be doctors or lawyers or businessmen or engineers than the average Ivy League. That’s not a bad thing. Drive and focus are admirable qualities. Unlike some schools which force you to take a strict, standard core, there is a lot more flexibility at Penn. You can be liberal artsy (even in Wharton!). But you can also be very focused. It’s up to you. The fact that you want a job in the field you’re studying could mean you’re only in college as a gateway to a high-paying job…or it could mean you love what you’re studying and want to be intellectually engaged in your career. I personally think there’s more of the latter. </p></li>
<li><p>When it comes to internships/jobs, you can gain a huge advantage by simply being ahead of the pack and taking the time to do some research. I had a freak-out about what I was going to do this summer November of last year, months before most people even contemplate how to spend their freshman summer (most people don’t do much, but I didn’t want to be “most people”). Luckily, I found an epic Wall Street internship with a December deadline, along with several Wall Street freshman programs that were 1 or 3 days long in the spring. Most of them were poorly advertised, which was a huge advantage—it’s much easier to get into Barclays Boot Camp when your competition isn’t aware of it (guess I just gave that one away, haha). I’ve now already received a bulge bracket investment banking offer for my sophomore summer (while most people will land internships Feb-May), and I don’t have to go through OCR this year….not because I beat out everyone in Wharton for it, but because I started looking for stuff before everyone else did. I’m sure this also applies to research positions, Capitol Hill stints, and any other summer opportunities. </p></li>
<li><p>Penn is an awesome place. It’s filled with brilliant, high-performing kids who like to have fun and be normal, awesome people. I love this school and the incredible people and opportunities it provides. People who offer black and white opinions on Penn, or really anywhere else, don't know what they're talking about. Penn isn't for everyone. But for those it is for, it's freaking awesome.</p></li>
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<p>Wow, thanks for taking the time to write this; it provides a lot of insight!</p>

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<p>Great Post. Mind if we know your stats during your senior year? :slight_smile: And do you have any advice for an prospective refreshmen?</p>

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<p>@Luminiz: 2260 SAT, 34 ACT, 3.94 UW GPA, 750/750/780 on Math II, Chem, and Lit. My school didn’t have many APs, so I only took 3 (4,4,5). I also had a fairly unique background story and talent, and I was in charge of three clubs. My personal take is that if you have the numbers that will open the door, then you sell your talents, story, and unique attributes to get you inside.</p>

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<p>Great Post!! Can you tell me what the party and Greek scene is like?</p>

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<p>Love this :slight_smile: Couldn’t be more excited for this yearrrr! It is incredibly difficult to keep a 3.8? I’m thinking about going Pre-med and being aware of the fact that all of my peers were likely at the top of their class too makes me wary of that 3.8 because it just seems impossible!</p>

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<p>Great post dude; I’m starting at Upenn this fall and I’m sure that this information will be useful. To be honest though, I find A LOT of finance professionals who went to Penn (at least outside of wall street where I live) to distinguish between Penn Wharton and Penn non wharton. Anyways, you mentioned the boot camp barclays program and other freshman programs. Are these URM/Female programs? I’ve been trying to find one that is open to everyone, but unfortunately it seems that most sophmore and freshman programs are only open to URMs and Females.</p>

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<p>Coming into my senior year, I agree with most of what you say although there are few points I’d like to make in addition to what you’ve said.</p>

<p>GPA is only really important if you have an exceptionally high gpa or an abysmally low one. 3.8 + might turn some heads come recruiting time but below that (and assuming you’re above a 3.0) it’s mostly networking that’ll get you good internships/jobs.</p>

<p>To say that there isn’t a Penn/Wharton divide isn’t entirely true. Many intro courses you’ll take together first year but once you start on the core, you’ll find that you won’t be seeing your college/engineering friends in classes. As you said, the elitism isn’t as big an issue although most recent alums I’ve met identify as wharton grads if for nothing else than to leverage the MBA network.</p>

<p>Penn is predominately pre-professional. That may be a good thing or bad thing depending on your preferences. While there are a number of intellectuals on campus, you’ll find less support for such pursuits from clubs/other groups which tend to focus on professional interests or hobbies.</p>

<p>Otherwise, great list. Would be nice to have other students/alums pipe in about their experiences too.</p>

10

<p>Is there any truth to this:
Review from ***** about UPenn:</p>

<p>What is your overall opinion of this school?
I guess this my time to rant on UPenn. From how the university deals with clubs and fraternities, to how they accomodate living situations and campus dining, I constantly feel like I am being robbed and slapped in the face by an administration that does not care about its undergraduate students. The school considers its students a nuisance, that about somes it up. The quality of student here is outstanding, personalities and ambitions in all, but in my mind the students are the only thing that holds up the shoddy infrasture and administration of the school.</p>

<p>What are the academics like at your school?
At Wharton, the greatest business school in the world, do not expect to be in an intimate classroom setting until your late junior or senior year. While the courses are demanding, there is very little hand-holding through the infamous Wharton core - the ten basic business classes that are completed during the sophomore and junior year. Be prepared to go through a brutal running of the bulls type classroom atmosphere where you cram for tests and feel very little personal satisfaction.</p>

<p>What are the most popular student activities/groups?
If your social, there are only two excuses not to be in a fraternity: 1)If your on a sports team and 2) If you are international and find your group among other international students. I have seen too many great, active, and fun kids fade into loneliness and oblivion because they are the few who are not in a fraternity. The truth is that at an Ivy League school, there is naturally a smaller proportion of the student body that does go out. Combine that with the fact that Penn has a very high rate of students in the Greek scene, and its easy to see why the people who go out and in fraternities or sororities.</p>

<p>Is the stereotype of students at your school accurate?
Yes.</p>

<p>Here’s your chance: Say anything about your college!
Work hard, play hard. Jewish. New York lifestyle (for better or worse, but overall for worse). Pre-professional. Greek scene is the social scene. The people who “go out” are in the Greek Scene. Very preppy. Not many tan/blond girls. Food is absolutely terrible: both the university dining plan and nearby eateries. Philly has great restaurants, but they are pricey. Terrible living conditions. Mice is every dorm room. Small living quarters. Freshmen are in for a rude awakening when they realize that the university makes very little effort to improve basic standards of living such as food and shelter. Wharton curve makes classes too competitive and makes for a rather hostile classroom environment in business classes. Low school spirit for sports team, all the sports fans at UPenn root for other colleges, but I guess that’s typical for an Ivy League school.</p>

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<p>I’d say that seems to be a typical wharton experience if you don’t enjoy partying or getting into the high-finance lifestyle too much. On the plus side, you’re not scrambling for jobs that fit your major like kids coming out from liberal arts programs. </p>

<p>My personal (cynical) view says yeah that’s going to be true for you if you’re looking for a deeply engaging intellectual experience. Frankly, Wharton has very few intellectuals. If you just want an active student and fun student life, then OP’s more optimistic outlook is reasonable. You can definitely make your own social circles but going out at Penn seems to entail getting **** drunk. You’ll need to make friends with college friends for intellectual discussion (market outlooks are about as intellectual as wharton discussions get).</p>

<p>On the other hand, I can’t really agree that Penn as an institution doesn’t support its students. Dorms and food suck, yeah, but that’s a given at any college (especially an older one in a major city). Academic support is pretty good though, plenty of research funding and it’s pretty easy to branch out and pick up additional minors/majors/degrees. Is there pressure? Yes, but keep in mind that college is as much about prepping for the future as it is about enjoying yourself and having fun.</p>

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<p>bluesmiles08:

As pre-med, it probably will be. A lot of people will drop out of the pre-med over the course of freshman year, so keep in mind that the curve is likely to get increasingly difficult. I can’t speak from personal experience, but I have many pre-med friends, and it’s definitely one of the tougher tracks at Penn. If you truly care about it though it’ll be much easier.</p>

<p>3176401:

This is definitely true. Where I live people respond a lot more strongly to the Wharton name than the Penn name, but that’s not at all true on Wall Street. I can’t tell you why, but it’s just one of those unspoken rules. Maybe Wharton is so intimidating that it’s the school that must not be named, Harry Potter-style?</p>

<p>Most of these programs are, but there’s no harm in trying. It’ll be tougher to get in, but I do know three white guys from Wharton who got into Goldman’s undergrad camp this year. So it’s definitely not impossible. They’ll occur in the spring, with deadlines in the winter or spring. Here are the programs:</p>

<p>Goldman Sachs Undergraduate Camp
Morgan Stanley Early Insights
Barclays STEMS
Credit Suisse BA Explorers
J.P. Morgan Launching Leaders Spring Experience
Capital One Summit for Developing Leaders
Google BOLD Immersion</p>

<p>They’re 1-3 days, and not only can you put it on your resume, you develop a personal relationship with the recruiters, and you’re first on the list when they reach out to do accelerated interviews for sophomore internships. And it’s a free trip to New York!</p>

<p>@asono1: I’m not going to break down that review line-by-line, but I will say that I don’t think someone who expects there to be “hand-holding” at Wharton, or really any college, is going to have a great time of it. If you come here expecting your life to be handed to you on a silver platter, you’re going to be disappointed. I don’t think this guy had the right attitude about putting into life what you want to get out of it.</p>

<p>disgradius:

That’s definitely a harsh generalization. I have had numerous intellectual and political discussions with my Wharton friends. I think that occurs more frequently in the college, but you can’t discount all of us!</p>

13

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<p>I would say all of that is generally true. However, several of the cons listed above are not unique to Penn. That said, it’s about time the admin raised their game. Penn is, honestly, a bureaucratic mess.</p>

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<p>Will joining a frat

  1. entail hazing?
  2. cost a ton of money?</p>
15

<p>Do you know the reputations of some of the frats.</p>

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<p>@definemyself,</p>

<p>For the most part, yes to both questions. Some fraternities are big on no-hazing policies, but you’re never going to find a group where people have any level of dedication and absolutely positively no hazing whatsoever (hazing is defined as any act where one group feels compelled to do something another group need not do, which could entail a group of seniors deciding to wear red on a random Thursday as much as it could entail a pledgemaster telling his freshmen to do eat raw eggs after finishing a case race at 4AM on a Tuesday). The reality about “hazing” is that it’s really not as bad as you’d think… most fraternities are reasonable about what they ask you to do, and most tasks have a legitimate purpose.</p>

<p>Most fraternities are going to cost somewhere between $400 and $800 per semester, but there are plenty of fraternities that cost more/less.</p>

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<p>No, what are the reputations of some of the frats?</p>

<p>Also, @Wharton15 or any other current Wharton student - how difficult is it to maintain a 3.5-3.8 at Wharton?</p>

18

<p>Frats’ reputations change from year to year, depending on the pledge class. </p>

<p>GPA in 3.5 is very feasible (studying is however necessary). 3.8 is doable (alot of studying necessary)</p>