From what I read, Milo directed last week’s episode. Mandy directed the one from last night. And Justin directed Randall’s Big 3 episode airing next week.
Seemed like last night was something of a rapid progression of something we knew was building for a long time. Kept thinking during the episode, ok, that is what caused the split. But it didn’t. So it was on to the next thing. Maybe that was the cause/final straw. We knew it was coming but we didn’t know exactly would be the final straw. Even at the end I was thinking Kate was moving towards working things out there. But then, not.
When companies go insolvent/bankrupt, often its asked how it happened. Common response is slowly at first, then very quickly. I think the same can be said of how long term relationships often break up.
We know from an earlier episode that something happens to Jack with the smoker and Toby. That scene implied that was the final straw.
Not my favorite episode. IMHO, it is really unfair of Kate to not allow Toby to grow, get happy, and become who he was meant to be. The reality is, no matter what, he is the main bread winner and his job is more important. I agree that the LA job offer was likely decent (and he pursued it enough to get an offer), but he is happy where he is. Kate needs to recognize that she is, at least to some extent, projecting her issues onto Toby. Hard to believe the thin, British guy is more supportive than Toby has been. Maybe because the Brit has always been thin, she doesn’t feel as triggered by him.
OTOH, I can see why she feels that Toby is not taking her feelings into account and agree that she has every right to be furious about the fact that he did not tell her about the LA offer. But to use that to blow up the marriage?
it is almost too bad that we know Kate and Toby split up. I wish the writers had not picked this story arc, but interested to see where this is going.
That episode was painful. Why did I spent an hour on two most unlikeable characters? I should have just read a recap and been done with it.
Is Kate the only one who gets to be happy in this relationship? When she talked about all the reasons to stay in LA, they were all about her, her family and her happiness.
My husband had job offers in the past that I had wished he had taken (in hindsight I was completely correct about at least one of those moves) but his personal and professional happiness was important also. Not saying that Toby was completely correct either.
But I’m living in a place where I didn’t want to go, I didn’t want to give up my job and my friends. And much closer to my family. But like Toby my husband had a heart attack, lost a bunch of weight and needed to reset his career. And guess what, I’ve come to love where I am, made friends and have a life. I’m happy too.
A heart attack is a life changing experience. Toby reset his life, Kate is not willing to. I guess the pool incident shows how she is.
Walking up a hill and deciding to do what she wants, isn’t a great brave moment to me.
I don’t think either Toby or Kate is totally right or wrong, but the hill represented Toby’s lack of faith in her. He insisted on taking a Lyft to the party because he felt she was incapable of walking up that hill even though she wanted to to do it. Climbing it on her own the next day showed her that he was wrong and she could do things that Toby thinks she can’t.
I get what everyone is saying about her supporting him, but she was also getting professional fulfillment and wanted to be supported, too. They both said it was the first time in their lives that they had been validated professionally. Her work may not be as financially lucrative, but it’s meaningful.
Why do his professional aspirations trump hers? They were able to make it when Toby’s salary was less, so his higher salary wasn’t necessary, though nice to have for Jack’s needs. His points were valid, but I felt like they were more part of a case he was making for a move than a heartfelt motivation.
Except that their expenses are very different now with two kids than when it was just the two of them. While I agree that Kate’s happiness is important, at least up to now it was a part-time gig. Also, isn’t Rebecca moving back to the house in PA?
I totally forgot about Toby’s heard attack and how that was the impetus to get healthy.
Having both of them be partially right is what makes the situation more complex and interesting. I guess I gave Toby’s more weight due to the income and that Kate could probably find a similar sort of job in the Bay Area, although maybe not exactly the same.
Like @deb922 , I moved for my DH’s job, leaving a great location. Eventually, I made peace with it and made it my home.
My daughter has a great boyfriend. He’s wonderful but when they met, he was finishing his studies. As he was preparing to interview for jobs there were no opportunities where they were living at that time.
He got a great opportunity it offers tremendous growth potential. My daughter took a leap of faith, looked and found a new job. She liked her old job, and had many friends in her old location.
She just loves her new job, she’s in a great relationship. She had to make a leap of faith to join her boyfriend. It could have not worked out but she would still pick the new job over the old. She didn’t know what she could do unless she went for the new opportunity.
I’m sorry but a part time music job, while I’m sure fulfilling is not paying the mortgage. Kate is able to work part time and be with the kids because Toby has a demanding job.
I do think that the great thing about this show is that we can all interpret it through our own eyes. We can see both sides and based on personal experience, make our own conclusions.
One thing I do want to say as someone who had a spouse go through a medical crisis. I would have walked to the end of the earth so my spouse (who’s income paid the mortgage) had a better less stressful situation. I think until you’ve been through a heart attack at a young age, you aren’t aware how life changing it is. It was for both my husband and myself. It was definitely a situation where I put my spouse’s wants and needs before mine. I think that’s true for many health crisis. Heart attack is the big one we went through.
I think Toby had some wrong conclusions about Kate. As you can see, she was fearful of new experiences. She was not easily talked into trying something new. And she became very combative and stubborn. I think Toby thought (wrongly) that if he just showed her how great SF was and what a great house they could buy, then she would be excited and open to starting their new life.
I forgot that Rebecca was moving to the cabin. So Kate would be across the country from wherever she settled.
I also think this episode showed that a lack of communication and compromise can sink even a strong relationship.
I think Kate is wrong here. Tony has been working on his a career for a long time and finally has a position he loves, which also happens to be very lucrative. She is just starting out in her career. It’s a part time job which I’m sure doesn’t pay much. Couples have to make these decisions all the time. They are difficult but it’s part of marriage. Keeping her family together should be her primary goal. Her nuclear family, not her extended family. Kevin could be anywhere filming for extended period of time and her mother has Miguel and will eventually move to PA.
She is being selfish. If they divorce, Toby will have to keep traveling to LA to see his kids. It seems like being around Kevin is more important to her than being around Toby. Toby was thoughtful in that he found a house that had space for Rebecca and Miguel so they could easily split their time there if they wanted to.
I agree that Toby could have handled the whole thing better but the bottom line is that he is right, they need to be living in the same city as a family. He’s the one taking 4 planes a week to see his kids and all he gets when he arrives is crap from Kate about how he can’t do anything right.
Kate seems very insecure with the new successful version of Toby but somehow she’s going to feel more secure with a handsome skinny Brit? I think the fact that she misses the depressed, fat version of Toby just shows how selfish she really is.
I thought that Toby was being thoughtful and kind that they get a Lyft to the bosses house.
They were dressed up and going into someone’s house for a cocktail party. I certainly would not want to have on good clothes, nice shoes to walk uphill, where I would arrive sweaty and out of breath.
But go ahead Kate and think it’s because Toby doesn’t believe in you.
Maybe I hated this episode (but still have a ton to say about it lol) because it touches a nerve. My brother in law and sister in law are divorcing after 30 years. They were so entrenched in their own positions, would not compromise and did not communicate. Maybe we all see things that touch on the messy side of our expectations. I saw things in my marriage that I decided that I didn’t need to “win” for lack of another word. My sil and bil were always trying to win and that’s some of what doomed their relationship. I saw a lot of that in this episode.
I also hated the imaginary old Toby part. Why didn’t we see Toby imagining the old Kate - the less whiny one. And I got the progression from how she wouldn’t let go of her father’s neck or climb over the fence but she finally climbed the hill, but then I kept wondering how did she get out of that pool enclosure? Maybe they show us next week when we see it from Randall’s point of view. I really didn’t like the whole episode because I kept going back and forth between who I agreed with, but then, and after reading these comments, I think that “who’s right?” also made the episode successful. Chrissy Metz wrote/co-wrote it and I saw a quote that it made her reminded her of her own divorce.
I gotta say I was Team Toby on this one…until the end when he says, “I need you to get on board because… moving here is the only way that we are gonna stay a family. It is the only option.” That was both unrealistically rigid and out of character.
It did not push me onto Team Kate, but more into Team Both Are Unreasonable
I am not really a fan of Kate, but the whole lack of communication dynamic between Kate and Toby drove me batty.
I agree with @skieurope that Toby’s ‘only option’ stance was quite rigid.
Clearly it pushed Kate over. Until that point, she was trying, excited about alone time in SF with Toby, sharing her feelings, warming to at least consider a move. Even after the bombshell of the LA job offer, I thought Kate was still open as they shared their morning coffee across the counter.
But the symbolic walk uphill empowered Kate to put her name in the hat for her retiring coworker’s presumably full time position. So for once, I was Go Kate!
Toby and Kate have both dealt with mental health issues. Toby has friends, likes his job and is good at it. But Kate has friends, a job she likes and is good at, has support with the kids, likes her house and her neighborhood. I don’t think the bread winner should take precedence. If the LA job was comparable financially, they would save money because he wouldn’t be flying back and forth and wouldn’t need to keep an apartment in SF. But Toby didn’t talk to her before he took the SF job, didn’t discuss the LA job and didn’t take her issues into account. It is possible that moving to SF could work but it needs to be a decision made together as a family with everyone’s needs taken into account, rather than just “the breadwinner”.
Ah, I didn’t watch the preview. I just watched, and you’re right. Randall and Kate are on opposite sides of the fence with the blue light bar in reflection.
In no world can I side with Kate. Kate spends so much of her life in jealousy. Woe is me.
Did Toby make a couple mistakes? Yes he did. Probably could have told her about the LA job. No matter his attempt - to be a good provider, to be a fun dad when he is home, to treat her like a queen….when Toby suggests left, Kate wants right. On this trip Toby often turned right for Kate.
Never did Toby say he wanted San Fran for the big money to live a lavish lifestyle. What did he want? An family home not an apt with a skyline view. The resources to get Jack what he needs to live and succeed not just now but for a lifetime. The opportunity for the family to be in one spot.
I will say this. Didn’t they say this time period of him being in San Fran was only 3 months? Why not give everyone a little more time?
To be honest, I don’t know how happy Kate has seemed in LA. She gets annoyed at Kevin. She’s overwhelmed with the kids. Actually this episode with her singing the song to Jack on the walk was the first time she seemed happy except when she has been with the kids at her school. Her home life, not so much.
Interesting how that pool became the foundation for so many moments of their life and how they could build around the pool for so many episode stories.
I’m still team Toby. He planned a special weekend for the two of them and she just disregarded it. No matter how much I may not have wanted that (though I would have!) I would’ve sucked it up because that’s what you do in a marriage when your spouse puts love and effort into doing something special for you! So he didn’t tell her about the job, but he also didn’t WANT the job. So there really wasn’t much to discuss. I did think he came on a bit strong about the house, but i think it was just his excitement. Kate could’ve just said let’s slow it down a bit - I’m not ready to make an offer on a house this weekend. I think his comment the next morning was just the truth as he sees it. The family in SF makes the most sense.
Another thing I noticed I kept feeling while watching the episode. I kept seeing opportunities that might come up for Toby to be a jerk. Uh oh, Kate has been dropped off at the apt and Toby is still at work - nope! He was there!
Toby planned out a full day and when Kate says she doesn’t want to do it, uh oh, Toby is going to get mad and insist they do San Fran. Nope! He does what she likes.
I can’t remember all the instances but in each one, he seemed to compromise or turn for her.
At the work party everyone was SOOO nice to her. It was so clear that Toby talked about Kate and the kids ALL. THE.TIME. They all knew so many details! No one was stuffy and they were all so welcoming. But when Kate got mad, there was no time for polite goodbyes to the people who welcomed her with open arms.
It was also pretty evident that for her - she has mentioned it SO many times - Toby’s weight loss - literally the fact that he wasn’t fat anymore - was annoying to her. Not just the other changes like confidence that came with the weight loss, but the weight loss itself.
When they were standing by the fence I saw a table in the background. Get the table! Climb on the dumb table and get over the fence.
Anyway, so I take back my previous thought and I do think teenage Kevin is similar in mannerisms to adult Kevin.
Kate is exhausting and I think Toby had some excellent points that it will take some money to support Jack in the future. People move cities every single day for a spouse’s job. I really don’t see the issue that she is having.
I also completely forgot about old Toby. He has really done a 180 from the Hawaiian shirt to the fancy scarf look.
And I agree, about getting the Lyft. No one wants to huff up a hill on the way to a cocktail party!!
Well, while Toby focuses on the financial aspects of Jack’s future, Kate is coordinating all the detailed adaptations for him (counting steps to the driveway, a song to navigate the neighborhood, etc.) and they have an ‘in’ at a special needs school!
Toby seems to have fully integrated his work and social life in SF, but with the exception of the house search, it seems no thought/research was given the overwhelming task of integrating the other 3 family members.
Yes, it’s a TV show, but IMO, Toby needed to prepare an arsenal of information to overcome Kate’s misgivings. His ‘only option’ stance fell miserably short.
As I’ve said before, I am not a Kate fan, but I feel her on this one.