There have been times during the season when Jack stood up and accomplished for the family. And there have been times when Rebecca stood up and was the voice for the family. Perhaps he did it more - and sometimes without her - but I think she did or learned to be the advocate. And that was very clear in last week’s show as she took those three kids and that urn and took charge. Also telling the boys they didn’t have to worry about being the “man of the family” - she was ready. And ready perhaps because Jack taught her or because he gave her confidence - especially since it seemed that she did not receive confidence through her own family (mother).
He didn’t tell Mandy to “stay out of the car talk” because she was a women - he just had a plan - or was making a plan as he went. He had one shot - and he probably knew she would reject his shot because she was certain they couldn’t afford it.
It’s OK for the car-buying scene to be ambiguous, and to provoke ambivalence. On the one hand, it shows Jack at his most romantic, which is fairly attractive, and it DOES present him as a sort of perfect husband/father in the conception of some time. Which may in fact have already passed by 1980, but whatever – it wasn’t long gone. And as all of us terrible detail people have discovered, Jack is legitimately some kind of throwback, not even really a boomer.
And, on the other hand, the show made the inherent sexism of that model obvious. That Rebecca adored him and that he played his role perfectly doesn’t mean Jack’s role was perfect, and that his children should be looking to replicate their parents’ marriage.
It’s a good show. We are binge watching and half way through the second season. Our first night watching was the night of the Superbowl (fire), and the following Tuesday.
I like the message of the show (which isn’t new) that our time on earth is a mixture of our family’s past, present and future. I definitely see the legacy my parents left to us, and I hope my legacy will live on with my children and grandchildren. Our time on earth is short. Live it well! Loved when William said he had a tough life, but it was a good life based on the first person he saw when he was born (mom) and last person he saw before he left it (son).
I am not looking at ANY new posts in this thread! We just got back from our cruise and I haven’t gotten to watch the Super Bowl episode yet. So far I’ve managed not to see any spoilers. I told DH we HAVE to watch it tonight!!
The Doc meets with Rebecca during the funeral reception. He is with a woman named Anne (who I found out is played by Susan Blakely). At the time, I didn’t think anything about him having a female companion, but wasn’t he supposed to be a widower?
OK, never-mind, I just googled and apparently she was in “The Big Day” in Season 1. I guess I missed that episode. Anyway, I’m wondering if Rebecca and the Doc have some kind of ongoing relationship after Jack’s death? Maybe the Doc and Anne become a surrogate family for her? She and Miguel don’t get together until 12 years later, so who does she lean on for support?
Sorry @doschicos, I still think it works well, especially after reading the article :). I couldn’t remember all the little nuances in the episode that involved the car. For example, I didn’t notice that in the end, Rebecca drives bravely over the bridge that she was so scared of (remember how we all made fun of her for that? There was a reason for that scene apparently). Sorry if someone already made that connection - I didn’t take the time to reread the posts.
I’m thinking the writers had to come up with some setting for the family in the scenes after Jack died. It couldn’t be the house, because it was gone. Did they plan the car theme or did they realize at some point the family would be driving together to a lot of places after his death and the story just evolved from there? Anyway, I can forgive Jack for being sexist, because I like the way it played out.
@LeastComplicated The recap you linked - 1st page, last paragraph - addresses some of the corniness of the car buying scene. Not only did I mention feeling it was sexist but also corny and unrealistic. I know not everyone agrees with me but it disappointed me because I usually find the script less saccharine.
@doschicos yeah, I thought for a while about posting that link, because it backed up your opinion, lol, but I thought it was a good summary of the episode - a lot of that stuff just flew over my head.
What I don’t like about the show and find disappointing is Jack’s greasy hair and no one agrees with me on that. We’re all entitled to our opinions :).
Seriously, I’ve got some strong opinions on certain aspects of the show, but different things resonate with different people. The intense grieving by everyone 20 years after Jack’s death seems unrealistic to me - but I’ve never lost a spouse or parent (as a young child). I mean, I realize that’s basically what the show’s about, but I still think it’s overdone.
I do find the adoption/foster care stuff very realistic as we’ve been foster parents and have adopted children. My daughter cried and cried after watching only one episode (it happened to be the one where Rebecca tells William he can’t see Randall). She refuses to watch the show after that. While my other daughter, also adopted, has watched all episodes and doesn’t have such a strong reaction.
My favorite parts of the show by far are the scenes focusing on adult Randall and his family unit, the stuff with his dad and the foster scenes. They are the strongest IMO and a lot probably has to do with the fact that those actors are so good, especially Sterling K. Brown, and also because the adult Randall, although he has his issues, doesn’t seem to wallow in the death of Jack as much as the other two do.
@LeastComplicated - I’m torn over the 20 years and still grieving. It did alter their lives tremendously. Rebecca - she’s almost been without him as long as she was with him. The spending every super bowl remembering after 20 years seems like too much. But then I think of my mom, my dad had passed 8 years before her, and he died unexpectedly. 8 years still felt like yesterday to her. She never stopped missing him, and 12 more years wouldn’t have changed that. We still talked about him all the time and he was as present in our lives as someone could be if that makes sense. The fact it was so traumatic lends itself to more unresolved issues.
I’m looking forward to seeing how it unfolds in the time period after his death. Rebecca is strong, but you can see in Mandy Moore’s current portrayal, she’s quieter and sadder. All 3 kids have issues with her so she must have really been tossed out to the wilderness alone for so long. No wonder she married Miguel.
“All 3 kids have issues with her so she must have really been tossed out to the wilderness alone for so long.”
@eyemamom yes, that’s why I’m hoping that the Dr. and his wife become recurring characters in the future. She needs someone, besides the children, to lean on.
The car buying scene isn’t as far fetched for the time period as it would be today. Before the internet, buying a car involved negotiating a price.
I agree that different things resonate with different people. I am not a car person. I don’t name them, and I am happy as long as the car is reliable. We bought a Subaru when my youngest started kindergarten and it was the car I drove until my youngest was in his second year of college. I shocked myself when I became choked up and tearful when we finally traded it in. Even though it wasn’t our travel car (it wasn’t the Disney World car), it still held so many memories: the thousands of trips to school and back, hundreds of sporting events, two beloved family pets who rode along with us, and some of the best conversations I ever had with my kids. Our neighbors keep two cars and they get a new car every year. They never have a car that is more than two years old, so they probably wouldn’t relate to the storyline in the same way I did.
I’ve lost both my parents. I can’t remember the day my mom died. I don’t think of her on the anniversary of her death. I think of her on her birthday. My dad died on Christmas and even though I don’t have intense grief, it’s a part of my Christmas. When someone dies on a day that is celebrated, the death becomes tied to something else. The fact that the Super Bowl is an unofficial holiday in America, Jack always celebrated the day and it was the day he tragically died before his time, I get the yearly remembering.
Interesting to me that I see so many comments to the effect that Jack was perfect. I don’t think he was at all (no one is). His jealousy prevented Rebecca from pursuing her dream of singing. His need to be the hero cost him his life and his family their father/husband. He had addiction issues. From what I have read from writers and actors in the show, I expect them to pursue a little more of his faults. He told Rebecca that there was a lot she didn’t know about him when he was drunk at Miguels. Looking back at his time in Vietnam may bring some of those things to light. And in an ironic twist, you aren’t supposed to speak ill of the dead but Jack has always been dead (at least from a few episodes in when we learned of his death).
The car buying was consistent with a complaint that Rebecca had about Jack. Make her the heavy and let him be the fun one to save the day. She told the kids the Wagoneer was too expensive and told them to look at the used beater outside. Jack said they could get the shiny new Wagoneer. Was it sexist? To a degree yes. But its not like a man born in the 1940s could never be sexists. Or that it wasn’t common. Even today there are a lot of sexist guys out there. Saint Jack wouldn’t have been one but I never viewed him as a saint anyway.
I think adult kids reactions make sense to me. Randall was on the best terms with his dad when he died. He got to see him and tell him about his first kiss the night of the fire. Randall is smart and driven and marries a great woman. I think he has addiction issues (or at least compulsive ones) but he was able to channel it into work (at least for a time).
Kate was on good terms with respect to telling him to keep seeing her the way he did. But she blames herself for Jack’s death. Its not her fault; he made his own decision to go back in the house and to stay to gather family memories when he just could have picked up the dog and headed out. But without her screaming about the dog its not clear Jack goes back into the house at all and he thus likely lives. Kate has weight issues. Isn’t able to find a lasting relationship until current times with Toby.
Kevin fought with his dad the last time they were together. He was still dealing with losing his dream of playing sports. He passed up the opportunity to apologize on the phone the night of the fire. He wasn’t there when the fire happened. He marries the love of his life but loses her only to find her again and lose her again. He has addiction issues.
“Before the internet, buying a car involved negotiating a price.”
It still very much does involve negotiating a price. Not much has changed in that regard. What hasn’t changed is why you get a discount (inventory, etc.) vs. telling some corny story.
You are probably right. We are brand loyal and our local dealership doesn’t haggle. They list their entire inventory on-line with the prices and those match the stickers at the dealership and that’s what you have to pay.
I still thought it was a really well done episode, and it’s going to be fun to see where the writers go from here.
When we buy a new car, I leave my DH alone with the sales rep, I figure the deal goes better without a witness. My DH likes to make killer deals, I feel like it’s embarrassing to the sales guy to have it witnessed
I did not think much about Jack being alone with the guy and Rebecca hanging with the kids.
