<p>Over the span of 4 years where the best students are often grouped together in the same classes, most often people generally will figure out who is the most highly regarded by the teachers--even if the student is quiet. In an extreme case, if someone freely admits getting "B"s in calculus and another person has qualified for USAMO and the teacher raves about them in class, it is probable that the second student got better recommendations. Or if the teacher says to the class, "All of you need to do this more in your papers--except for student X."</p>
<p>I agree you can't always know everything about other students, and certainly you wouldn't know their personal situations (and essays describing them.)</p>
<p>It's a natural reaction to not getting in, "They didn't deserve it" "If I (emphasis) didn't get in, why did HE?". People assume that school grades + SAT + school ecs + school recs = in. However, there are a lot more factors. </p>
<p>For example, I'm a very private person at my school, and nobody even knew I was smart until I ended up in all the honors classes and getting 100's on regents exams soph year. I have also won a few important awards and participated in extremely competitive summer programs with college credit. Basically, I'm saying there's a lot you don't know about a person if you aren't friends. </p>
<p>One of my closest friends has a very labor intensive job of about 30 hours a week (4 hours/weekday for 4 days, and 16 hours/weekend) b/c of her family's finances. If she doesn't work, the rent doesn't get paid. She doesn't eat lunch at school and has to eat ramen at home. So, while some might look at her and be like WHY DID SHE GET IN WITH HER GRADES? it's because colleges saw that she was getting good enough grades even with having almost a full-time job at the same time.</p>
<p>That said, a lot of people have other, not so pleasing reasons why they get in over someone else-affirm action, special talent college needs, etc..</p>
<p>Okay, say you know a girl (true story) who applied to MIT and got in who has 350 points less than u on the SATs, and an average or 120 points less than you on each SATII. Her class rank is low 10% while you are valedictorian. She's white, you're asian, and from the same school. She gets in ahead of you. Perhaps she wrote a better essay than you, and perhaps she has more passion than you in math and science and conveyed that in her essays. HOWEVER, she's never taken AP english, she doesn't know how to write essays, period. She doesn't seem to have as much passion for science/math, either, since she's not taking the hardest science classes and has basically gotten Cs in some of them as well. No research experience or any other form of "passion." She's not in basically ANY clubs, must less have leadership positions in them. And whenever there are science/math competitions in school, she doesn't even attempt them. What passion.</p>
<p>In this case, wouldn't you be <em>pretty</em> sure that your application was stronger?</p>
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. And whenever there are science/math competitions in school, she doesn't even attempt them.
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<p>I sometimes just don't have the time either. OH there's a competition. But I was planning to do X Wednesday; furthermore, if you don't have that many friends that push you, you're less likely to go...</p>
<p>I wasn't really in any clubs until senior year ... I relied mostly whole lot of non-school activities on my app, as well. Of course, I got rejected from 7 schools and got accepted at one, but still. ;) </p>
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If she doesn't work, the rent doesn't get paid.
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<p>What happens when she goes to school, though?</p>
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There is no way to stop this from happening because the only way to do so would be for everyone to limit the number of schools they apply to.
However, if only one person limits his applications, this will not effect the process and they will end up being disadvantaged by the admissions process because all other students will be submiting more applications, and the one person who limited his applications will probably be rejected/waitlisted at most/all of the few schools he applied to.
Few have the courage to take those chances, and so I assume that this trend of simply applying to more schools will continue.
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<p>College applications are just a very huge prisonner's dilemma game.</p>
<p>I feel this way about several people I know, especially people recruited for teams. It's just an honest confusion mixed in with pain of rejection.</p>
<p>Sorry Anon<em>Person</em>1 to burst your story, but people here seem to think just because there some hardship in your life, colleges are rushing to get the student, and the student doesn't have to do so well. Ain't true even though the student actually got decent scores matching the school's stats.
I actually seen more stuff like what Narcissa has said. I have a gap year to prove it for, I guess it just makes me more bitter of the whole process.</p>
<p>Since when can you not write a good essay until you take an AP English class? My school doesn't offer AP English, but as far as I know, there is no AP English Writing test.</p>
<p>I have a similar story to that of Narcissa's. This girl also got into MIT as well. Much lower scores than any of the guys who I know applied and not as impressive math/science activities, but she got in over them. I believe her SAT is less than a 2200, her SAT II Math only a 780, and her other SAT II's barely a 700. She has not won a single regional math/science competition either. Actually, she has few math/science activities/awards at all. The main reason she got in is probably the fact that she applied as Course 6 (EECS), which is pretty male-dominated. She also had recommendations from certain people that may have given her the necessary boost. Whether or not she really deserved those recommendations and the recognition is another story. If it makes you feel any better, the people who actually reach the MIT standard will be more likely to be the ones succeeding in their courses anyway.</p>
<p>Duper - Actually on almost anything else I'd agree with you, but the math IIC has a huge curve (I'm assuming that's what the poster was referring to). It was a while ago, but I remember someone calculating it and telling me you could get around 6 wrong (not blank) and still have an 800. For this reason it's supposedly easier than the Math IC, which is no margin for error. Can anyone else confirm this?</p>
<p>galoisien, my friend goes to school full-time AND works that much. It's pretty insane...</p>
<p>School (she walks from a really bad area to school): starts at 7:30 gets there at 8-3:00
Work: walks there 3-3:3:45, then works until about 7:45/8, and then walks home and is home by 8:30</p>
<p>Her weekend is two full 8 hour workdays</p>
<p>SkyGirl, I don't really understand your post, at all. To me, it's more impressive that someone achieves the same with an almost-full time job than with no job/ec's, etc. I'm not saying her hardship should get her in-that wasn't my intention. I was just saying WHY she was working so many hours. I too don't think that a sob story should equal admission, or does, or whatever.</p>
<p>Yeah, you can get around 6 wrong and still get an 800. I remember reading that the average SAT Math IIC for MIT was extremely high, so her score was probably only average in comparison to others who got in.</p>
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Since when can you not write a good essay until you take an AP English class?
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No, definitely not, but if your school offers the class and you don't reach the requirements to take it, that means your writing skills are not even in the top 10% of the entire public high school population. True, does not really assess anything, but still food for thought</p>
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Quote:
her SAT II Math only a 780 </p>
<p>Stopped reading after this.
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<p>I fell off my chair in shock over the clear injustice. What is the world coming to? How could MIT standards be dropping so low? Excuse me now, while I pick up the laptop, the power cord, the Diet Coke I spilled..</p>
<p>MIT isn't necessarily about the math-science concentration ... I applied for its linguistics programme. You know, cuz they got Noam Chomsky and all.</p>
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I feel this way about several people I know, especially people recruited for teams.
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<p>There are some pretty awesome athletes in school who have a subpar GPA, and one who I know as a good friend (but can't convince him to pursue more ambitious education) of Hispanic background has an innate talent for physics and mathematics. Unfortunately, his home environment has taught him that a B- average is good enough, which is a pity. To him, anything above that is a bonus.</p>
<p>Personally what I secretly wish is for a good school's rigourous education to be thrust upon him -- only then can he tap into his other talents rather than held back by his unambitious parents. Some of these students can succeed.</p>
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<p>What I meant is when she goes to college, though. That's what I meant by school. ;) Now that she's going away, what is her family going to do without her?</p>
<p>Anon<em>Person</em>1,
No, I didn't mean anything against your friend, I am just saying the reason you are giving to justify those with lower stats getting is too generalized and misguided. There is a common misconception down in CC that when someone with lower stats got in, they went through some extreme adversaries in life which is ridiculous. And yeah, if you are lower income, colleges will shower you with financial aid it seems : another misconception in CC!!
A lot of students with experiences such as your friend's with good stats to match got sidelined this year, while I saw lower stats got in into the same schools. So I think the reason you are giving has no basis :). Personal experiences and good observation skill that is all.</p>