<p>I did not mean to say that a 780 Math IIC score was BAD by any means, but the fact that there was nothing truly impressive about her record is, I guess, what I was trying to at. I know plenty of people who got in with that score, and I don't find anything wrong with that at all. There are just a number of other applicants who had more awards, meaningful EC's, and better stats that did not get in who I found to deserve it more. That's all it is. And I was focusing more on the math/science activities because her MAJOR requires that she be extremely competent in those areas.</p>
<p>Random observation #1: It seems that it's mostly the girls who make these sorts of remarks. I rarely see males so harsh on each other...</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nothing personal, but I can't believe you got into any top schools with that sort of attitude. </p>
<p>To you, that's your ideal MIT student. It's not mine. The ideal MIT student for me, is the brilliant to-be researcher; she writes brilliant and insightful proofs, and is not the shallow kind of person who prizes perfection at artificial standardised tests and thinks that's the measure of future success.</p>
<p>From this little post of yours, I would say you are quite incapable of evaluating intelligence; you may be somewhat intelligent yourself, but you have no empathy and no capability of seeing it in others, especially when their type of intelligence differs from your narrow definition of intelligence and future success.</p>
<p>There's always a reason why somebody gets in over someone else and likely their applications weren't read by the same person and compared. </p>
<p>I doubt an admin is scratching his head trying to decide whether he prefers Suzie's essay about saving midget, quadriplegic, deaf ponies in Africa or Alison's essay on throwing rocks at the elderly.</p>
<p>
[quote]
No, definitely not, but if your school offers the class and you don't reach the requirements to take it, that means your writing skills are not even in the top 10% of the entire public high school population. True, does not really assess anything, but still food for thought
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Do you mean that you know that this girl would not have been allowed to take AP English if she had applied to join the class? If that's true, I still totally reject the notion that it means her essay sucked. There is a HUGE difference between typical high-school writing, which revolves around analyzing "themes" in literary works, and a college application essay, which is totally different.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Little Miss Muffet
Sat on her tuffet
Eating her words
Oh wai -- </p>
<p>
[quote]
There are just a number of other applicants who had more awards, meaningful EC's, and better stats that did not get in who I found to deserve it more. That's all it is. And I was focusing more on the math/science activities because her MAJOR requires that she be extremely competent in those areas.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So you read every aspect of her application?</p>
<p>Why does an MIT student have to win YOUR type of awards, participate in YOUR type of activities and fulfill YOUR standards?</p>
<p>It would actually seem that because she possessed talents (and showed them to the AdCom) in ways OTHER than pursuing the usual standard rich-kid academic pursuits that she stood a better chance of getting in.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have a similar story to that of Narcissa's. This girl also got into MIT as well. Much lower scores than any of the guys who I know applied and not as impressive math/science activities, but she got in over them. I believe her SAT is less than a 2200, her SAT II Math only a 780, and her other SAT II's barely a 700. She has not won a single regional math/science competition either. Actually, she has few math/science activities/awards at all. The main reason she got in is probably the fact that she applied as Course 6 (EECS), which is pretty male-dominated. She also had recommendations from certain people that may have given her the necessary boost. Whether or not she really deserved those recommendations and the recognition is another story. If it makes you feel any better, the people who actually reach the MIT standard will be more likely to be the ones succeeding in their courses anyway.
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<p>I'm sorry, what qualifications do you have to judge applicants? I must have missed where you mention them.</p>
<p>The SAT (both I and II) Math exams have a glaring lack of a proof section. They don't even have problems that test real math reasoning and ask why a given statement (or conclusion drawn from a set of statements) is valid or invalid (e.g. "invalid because you can't use the additive inverse property if the zero vector doesn't exist"). </p>
<p>Give me the 720 Math IIc person over the 800 if the former is more capable of writing elegant proofs to questions that take 3-4 hours to attack.</p>
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I'm sorry, what qualifications do you have to judge applicants? I must have missed where you mention them.
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</p>
<p>Her wealth, probably. </p>
<p>I mean, what intelligent student can't afford a car to constantly attend 5 different school clubs a week, and whose parents are rich enough to allow him/her to purchase the requisite materials to construct something for the state science fair?</p>
<p>
[quote]
To you, that's your ideal MIT student. It's not mine. The ideal MIT student for me, is the brilliant to-be researcher; she writes brilliant and insightful proofs, and is not the shallow kind of person who prizes perfection at artificial standardised tests and thinks that's the measure of future success.
[/quote]
Yes, but airheads [trust me, I personally know them] who can't even pass AP science classes doesn't hit me as a type of person who would be brilliant researchers or write brilliant proofs.</p>
<p>And about the person who said AP english doesn't make your essays good, there are a few things that make your MIT essay good:</p>
<ol>
<li>Personal Experience</li>
<li>Passion for what you're writing about</li>
<li>Ability to string words together in a beautiful way.</li>
</ol>
<h1>3 pertains to high school classes like AP english. #1 and #2, however, are the most important parts of your MIT essay--does my description of her seem like she is one that has more passion or personal experience with science than a x2 USAMO Asian male?</h1>
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[quote]
Give me the 720 Math IIc person over the 800 if the former is more capable of writing elegant proofs to questions that take 3-4 hours to attack.
[/quote]
Well, duh, but VERY FEW high schoolers can do this!! (i'm assuming you're talking about USAMO level math). And all who can will get an 800 on the Math II c unless they completely blow it by filling in the scantron wrong or something</p>
<p>"In this case, wouldn't you be <em>pretty</em> sure that your application was stronger?"</p>
<p>I'd assume that she had something positive going for her (such as perhaps doing lots of research on her own) that I didn't know about.</p>
<p>I've seen lots of students who appear mediocre in school because the work is easy for them -- bores them, and they don't bother handing in busywork. </p>
<p>The same students may be doing very impressive things during their free time, things they don't bother to tell their peers about because their peers wouldn't be interested, and the students don't care whether their peers are impressed by their activities.</p>
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[quote]
3. Ability to string words together in a beautiful way.</p>
<h1>3 pertains to high school classes like AP english.
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</h1>
<p>I didn't know Virginia Woolf took AP English. Tell me more.</p>
<p>"perfectionism may not be what a college is looking for in an applicant. I think it is in poor taste for people to criticize others for being accepted to a school that another applicant "feel" is undeserved. Most likely, there are many, many features in an application that these ad coms examine."</p>
<p>Yep. You got that right.</p>
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I didn't know Virginia Woolf took AP English.
[/quote]
Hopefully she would've taken the class if her high school offered it?</p>
<p>Sigh, this really isn't that complicated. Obviously if your school doesn't have AP english it doesn't mean you must be a horrible writer then. But if it DOES have AP english, and you're not allowed to take it because you suck at writing, you're not going to miraculously write an awesome essay that will be equivalent to 300+ points on the SATs and make up for your lack of ECs and such.</p>
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[quote]
I'd assume that she had something positive going for her (such as perhaps doing lots of research on her own) that I didn't know about.
[/quote]
She doesn't do research. Or participate in contests. Or do anything for that matter besides hang out with her friends and laugh all day and talk about boys.</p>
<p>"I've seen lots of students who appear mediocre in school because the work is easy for them -- bores them, and they don't bother handing in busywork.</p>
<p>The same students may be doing very impressive things during their free time, things they don't bother to tell their peers about because their peers wouldn't be interested, and the students don't care whether their peers are impressed by their activities."</p>
<p>Another accurate observation.</p>
<p>Doesn't matter what anyone assumes by virtue of academic grouping, by virtue of what you assume is the reputation of the student, by what you assume the recommendation will or will not say. It's arrogant for anyone to believe they would "know" that. You don't know it unless you actually see it, and see side-by-side application comparisons, word for word.</p>
<p>last post, about my friend, and I'm out: galosin, she plans to go to a local college and commute from home. She still plans on working the same hours, if not more, when she's older</p>
<p>My take on this before I get to sleepy to think straight is yield protection at certain levels. Last year, I got my shocking experience of admit-deny, admitted everywhere with bad aid, but this year I went through a confusing gap year with many waitlists/rejections at the end. I had to take this gap year because I couldn't afford college but I kinda felt all my hard work will mean something eventually. I am not talking on the MIT/Ivy level, more on the mere mortals level of decent colleges. It sucks after going through all this, still..to me my hard work translated to my what somewhat decent stats good enough for the schools I applied. So why? What is wrong with me? That is what probably some of those kids were asking that initiated the tittle of this thread!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hopefully she would've taken the class if her high school offered it?</p>
<p>Sigh, this really isn't that complicated. Obviously if your school doesn't have AP english it doesn't mean you must be a horrible writer then. But if it DOES have AP english, and you're not allowed to take it because you suck at writing, you're not going to miraculously write an awesome essay that will be equivalent to 300+ points on the SATs and make up for your lack of ECs and such.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I suppose it's terrific I took AP English, I can only feel for the unfortunates who did not receive such a wondrous offer. What you fail to recognize is there's a distinct difference between doing poor in an English class and being a poor writer. English courses tend to be very structured and have potential to harbor someone's creativity and potential. </p>
<p>You, however, are obviously a magnificent writer as you've managed to master the art of sighing through text.</p>
<p>"But if it DOES have AP english, and you're not allowed to take it because you suck at writing,"</p>
<p>I've seen students who were not allowed in classes because the teachers were too narrow minded or pedestrian to recognize a student's exceptional talent.</p>
<p>I know someone who is a doctor with a Phi Beta Kappa key whose elementary school teachers tried to get him into special education classes. Fortunately, his parents protested.</p>
<p>I know someone with a doctorate in psychology whom a similar thing happened to.</p>
<p>I know someone who got an 800 SAT CR, but an "F" in AP English because his teacher was an idiot (Really! She had students doing circle the word puzzles in class. She got kicked out of teaching AP English after parents complained), and he refused to do the work in her class.</p>
<p>At some schools, you have to get a certain grade in order to be allowed in AP classes. If a student is bored, dislikes the teacher, or is misgraded by a teacher who is an idiot (yes, this does happen. Sometimes mediocre teachers give failing grades to students' brilliant work that is over the teachers' heads), the student may not earn the grade to be allowed to take an AP course in a subject that the student is brilliant in.</p>
<p>There's an episode in an infamous College Admissions tell-all book, about a candidate who put up a particular social front for her peers, due to expectations. She did similarly for her parents, actually. In the actual application essay, the real self poured forth, revealing a serious personal problem that the student owned up to. It was relevant as a reason for applying to this particular college, & showed a great deal of integrity & self-awareness. It made her stand out among the opposing people-pleasers with whom she was competing for this Reach U. She did get in. She wasn't an academic loser, but wasn't "perfect" either. But she definitely communicated her humanity & maturity, which were factors this college was looking for.</p>
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[quote]
And all who can will get an 800 on the Math II c unless they completely blow it by filling in the scantron wrong or something
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</p>
<p>Wrong .... your smugness and arrogance is amazing.</p>
<p>I have personal beef against the SAT Math series -- all the problems are stiflingly boxed into different categories, one problem for every minute. The exam is suffocating -- there's no room to breathe, reflect and ponder. It's all about pre-manufactured fast food thinking, with formulas that come out straight from the textbook. Oops, you didn't memorise one completely by heart and now you're spending 40 seconds re-deriving it? You're already one question behind.</p>
<p>SAT Math (all 3 exams) is rote, not true mathematical thinking.</p>