"This isn't fair, ______ with much lower stats got in and I didn't!"

Applying to College
121

<p>
[quote]
Also, I said less qualified. Less qualified, not less academically able. As in, equal academics-sats, gpa, act, class rigor, ECs, volunteering, personal accomplishments etc;.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Those aren't the only qualifications ...</p>

<p>Anyway stats are those things that are quantifiable -- the numbers. Test scores, rank and GPA, maybe class rigour if it's factored into the GPA. Volunteer hours is pushing it, especially since lower-income students don't have that much free time either. </p>

<p>Which is why having lower stats != being less-qualified</p>

122

<p>
[quote]
Precisely my point.

[/quote]
Well you're not helping me figure it out.</p>

123

<p>
[quote]
Certain schools place too much weight on factors other than academics and academic potential. Some schools want diversity so much that they allow a students race/ethnicity play a prominent role as a factor in admissions. It's too bad so many schools consider diversity is exterior-a persons skin- instead of their interests. Diversity comes in many forms other than race, and it is unfair that a students race/gender plays ANY role in the admissions decision. Grades, writing samples, recs and ECs are at least reasonable factors.
I feel that the MOST qualifed should be addmitted, PERIOD. Yes, a URM who had slightly less qualifications, scored 20 pts lower, a tenth lower GPA, same # of ECs as a white student should not get special treatment b/c they are a URM. Colleges should not be allowed to ask for race.
There will always be people who, for whatever reason, get in ahead of student B even though they have worse stats. People will always be salty about it, because we do put so much effort, time and emotions into this process, and when you feel you should have gotten in when looking at those accepted, you have a right to be upset. It's justified. After spending almost a $1,000 on applications, tests, CSS profiles and other expenses, I deserve to know why a less qualified applicant was addmitted over me.
Allow people to vent a little, because its natural to be upset when your passed over for another, whether a job, a sports team, a college, for some silly reason. Especially when you've built a stronger resume the pst four years. It tends to be upsetting when people get rejected from their dream schools when their stats were on par with those who are admitted. Everyone knows being a URM is benefitial, and its wrong that people even believe it, because all that should matter is factors which the student can control, because I can't control the fact that I am white and a female, and that should play no role in the admissions process. I shouldn't be told I didn't get in because I they wanted "more diversity".
In the end, I have a right to be angry and to vent. I'll get over it, go to another school and have an amazing next four years, and probably be indifferent to the rejections down the road. People will get over the disapointment, eventually, because you'll realize this won't be the first or last time you'll be passed over for someone less qualified. And you know what? If a school wants so bad to have diversity, or practices reverse discrimination, screw them! That school probably wasn't the right one anyway. Be happy for the schools that admitted you because they think you're great, and brush it off your shoulder after your done with the mourning process.

[/quote]

Maybe you would not be so angry if you actually understood what Affirmative Action is. In addition, you seem to have an incomplete understanding of diversity, which is probably why you are not able to recognize the complexities of holistic admissions and Affirmative Action. Maybe if you knew that without Affirmative Action holistic admissions would probably be deemed illegal since Affirmative Action is what legitimized seeking diversity. Moreover, maybe if you actually understood how college admissions are handled at highly selective schools you would not be going on and on simply demonstrating your ignorance on the subject. Lastly, maybe if you could take the time to research whether or not success during youth result in success later in life you would not naively believe that giving out opportunities, like attending a prestigious university, should be based on achievement during youth should be the only factor.</p>

<p>I don't really hold your views against you because, after all, it is a lot easier to be ignorant and angry about a subject than to become informed about it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
In my case, a school told me they wanted more "diverse" canidates(as in race/ethnicity).

[/quote]

That is the biggest BS I have ever heard. Anyways, I looked at some of your previous posts and I think the reason you feel like this is because you had a rough college admissions process. I know it's tough to deal with rejection but do not scapegoat entire groups of people for your misfortunes. Also, judging from some of your other posts it seems as though you ignorantly believe no Whites or ORMs were accepted at your expense? I hope you know that that is statistically impossible.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Well, if they do say "we want diversity" what else could they mean? we want more asians?

[/quote]

Oh man, do you ever stop and listen to yourself?</p>

<p>Anyways, at many universities Asians are considered underrepresented; thus, Affirmative Action applies to them. </p>

<p>Also, you are unwisely assuming that diversity is solely about race which is simply just ignorant. Diversity is essentially about experiences and world views, which are shaped by one's race, gender, family background, and socio-economic background.</p>

124

<p>I have a friend, #1 in our class, who pretty much got into the dreams schools of 3 different people. I guess her case would be different, since she did in fact have higher academic qualitifactions, but what bothers me is that this girl applied to these schools KNOWING that she wasn't going there. I felt so bad for me three friends, but what can you do - life is always about competition.</p>

125

<p>
[quote]
Certain schools place too much weight on factors other than academics and academic potential. Some schools want diversity so much that they allow a students race/ethnicity play a prominent role as a factor in admissions. It's too bad so many schools consider diversity is exterior-a persons skin- instead of their interests. Diversity comes in many forms other than race, and it is unfair that a students race/gender plays ANY role in the admissions decision. Grades, writing samples, recs and ECs are at least reasonable factors.
I feel that the MOST qualifed should be addmitted, PERIOD. Yes, a URM who had slightly less qualifications, scored 20 pts lower, a tenth lower GPA, same # of ECs as a white student should not get special treatment b/c they are a URM. Colleges should not be allowed to ask for race.
There will always be people who, for whatever reason, get in ahead of student B even though they have worse stats. People will always be salty about it, because we do put so much effort, time and emotions into this process, and when you feel you should have gotten in when looking at those accepted, you have a right to be upset. It's justified. After spending almost a $1,000 on applications, tests, CSS profiles and other expenses, I deserve to know why a less qualified applicant was addmitted over me.
Allow people to vent a little, because its natural to be upset when your passed over for another, whether a job, a sports team, a college, for some silly reason. Especially when you've built a stronger resume the pst four years. It tends to be upsetting when people get rejected from their dream schools when their stats were on par with those who are admitted. Everyone knows being a URM is benefitial, and its wrong that people even believe it, because all that should matter is factors which the student can control, because I can't control the fact that I am white and a female, and that should play no role in the admissions process. I shouldn't be told I didn't get in because I they wanted "more diversity".
In the end, I have a right to be angry and to vent. I'll get over it, go to another school and have an amazing next four years, and probably be indifferent to the rejections down the road. People will get over the disapointment, eventually, because you'll realize this won't be the first or last time you'll be passed over for someone less qualified. And you know what? If a school wants so bad to have diversity, or practices reverse discrimination, screw them! That school probably wasn't the right one anyway. Be happy for the schools that admitted you because they think you're great, and brush it off your shoulder after your done with the mourning process.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It seems you fail to understand the point of Affirmative Action or what it even is.
It's sole purpose is to level the playing field, not "steal spots" from others. Historically and statistically, URMs were not being admitted to institutes at the same rate as white males for a vast number of reasons, ranging from: lower quality of education, simple discrimination or other uncontrollable factors. </p>

<p>If institutes had not prevented URMs from being admitted because of the above - despite the candidate's qualifications - Affirmative Action would not exist today. Hence, it's needed. </p>

<p>What makes you think colleges would take an army of unqualified students and risk their reputation of successful graduates? </p>

<p>To suggest a person was admitted solely because of his/her gender or ethnicity is insulting to that individual and insinuates the effort they put in means nothing. They paid the same application fees as you, took the same tests, filled out the same essays, attended the same four years of school. </p>

<p>What makes them less qualified than you? Perhaps their essay was stronger, perhaps they had gleaming recommendations, perhaps their extra curriculars were astounding, perhaps they took a trip to the moon their sophomore year while you studied Hamlet in AP Lit. </p>

<p>Perhaps, they're just better than you.</p>

126

<p>
[quote]

Anyways, at many universities Asians are considered underrepresented; thus, Affirmative Action applies to them.

[/quote]
...
duh, but i was under the impression that MIT was not such a school.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Also, you are unwisely assuming that diversity is solely about race which is simply just ignorant. Diversity is essentially about experiences and world views, which are shaped by one's race, gender, family background, and socio-economic background.

[/quote]
it was sarcasm</p>

<p>
[quote]
Perhaps, they're just better than you.

[/quote]
Just because one person got into a college that another person got rejected at, does not make that person "better"</p>

127

<p>It's okay to admit you were slightly misled, you know.</p>

128

<p>where ?</p>

129

<p>
[quote]
Just because one person got into a college that another person got rejected at, does not make that person "better"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Key word being "perhaps". You've read far too literally into that sentence. I also said perhaps they took a trip to the moon. By your reasoning, we have a lot of teenage astronauts floating around.<br>
Did I hit a nerve?</p>

130

<p>Considering I'm a junior and haven't even begun applying to colleges, I would say not yet.</p>

<p>At least i got into every college i applied to, AKA none of them.</p>

131

<p>I could care less.
You've skirted the subject at hand.
In the words galoisien: It's okay to admit you were slightly misled...or incapable of basic reading comprehension.</p>

132

<p>you asked a question, and I answered it. And all you're doing is nitpicking at little things that have nothing to do with "the subject at hand."</p>

<p>Affirmative Action exists and some URMs get in with worse stats/ECs/achievements than many whites and asians. They could've written amazing essays or got glowing recommendations or whatever, but most of them wouldn't have gotten in if they were asian or white. Diversity is a good thing and definitely not all URMs are this way, but let's not kid ourselves that if schools were race/gender blind, the same people would have been accepted because their essays or whatnot were awesome (I've heard about some study done by a princeton guy that found that 4/5 of URMs in top colleges would be replaced w/ asians if admissions were race blind.)</p>

<p>That being said, I have no clue why I this thread is 9 pages but I don't disagree with Affirmative Action, I would definitely rather not go to a school that is 70% (or some other high number) Asian/white, but just saying that it probably exists more than you all think.</p>

133

<p>Considering the only factual evidence you have to back up your claim is "some study by some Princeton guy" and your somewhat nonsensical speculation, I'll go so far to say that you have yet to prove your argument.</p>

<p>You're also assuming that all admitted URMs have marked their ethnicity on their application.
I'm just saying, unless you've worked extensively with several admission committees, you have no idea how much a gender or ethnicity weighs in a decision process.</p>

134

<p>eh i thought the princeton study is well known. Princeton</a> University - Study: Ending affirmative action would devastate most minority college enrollment</p>

135

<p>sorry .</p>

136

<p>Whatever. </p>

<p>Conclusion: Affirmative action exists, okay maybe it's unfair, but diversity is always a good thing. Everyone is qualified to attend whatever school they are accepted into, and high school standarized tests and scores do not determine your performance in college. I've agreed to all of these except perhaps I have overestimated the effect of AA on college admissions. Most if not all of the URMs that I know who have gotten into top colleges are amazing people and deserve to go over the ppl I know who didn't get in as far as the small sample size of my high school class of 08 goes. It's just that you get a few outliers once in a while that just seems totally unfair and bizarre.</p>

137

<p>That study shows precisely why Affirmative Action exists, so that URMs get a fighting chance, if it weren't for Affirmative Action, the numbers of admitted URMs would decline...hence it's existence. It seems like a "duh" sentiment. </p>

<p>You've also discredited yourself. From the study you've cited.
"In a study published in the June issue of Social Science Quarterly, authors Thomas Espenshade and Chang Chung examined the controversial notion that eliminating affirmative action would lead to the admission of more white students to college and found it to be false...Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, the report concludes, as their acceptance rate would rise by merely 0.5 percentage points."</p>

<p>And your 4/5 comment:</p>

<p>"Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic student,...Typically, many more Asian students apply to elite schools than other underrepresented minorities. "</p>

<p>Which explains the rise. This really isn't a difficult concept...though evidently it is for you.
Did you even read the article?</p>

138

<p>You fail to understand what you have been saying.</p>

<p>Here's what you have been asserting:
It's possible for underrepresented minorities, like African Americans, Hispanics, people from South Dakota, women, etc., to be qualified for admission to highly selective schools. Regardless of his or her qualifications, if a person is an underrepresented minority they were accepted solely because of Affirmative Action because had the person been born an overrepresented minority or a non-underrepresented minority they may not have been accepted. This is why Affirmative Action "probably exists more than you all think." </p>

<p>What the hell kind of logic is that?</p>

<p>
[quote]
duh, but i was under the impression that MIT was not such a school.

[/quote]

So?</p>

<p>
[quote]
it was sarcasm

[/quote]

My response totally went over your head...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Just because one person got into a college that another person got rejected at, does not make that person "better"

[/quote]

You are contradicting yourself. Why does "lesser qualified" and "more qualified" matter then?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Considering I'm a junior and haven't even begun applying to colleges, I would say not yet.

[/quote]

Hmmm... so why is that you are speaking as though you are very familiar with college admissions?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Affirmative Action exists and some URMs get in with worse stats/ECs/achievements than many whites and asians. They could've written amazing essays or got glowing recommendations or whatever, but most of them wouldn't have gotten in if they were asian or white. Diversity is a good thing and definitely not all URMs are this way, but let's not kid ourselves that if schools were race/gender blind, the same people would have been accepted because their essays or whatnot were awesome

[/quote]

What about "lesser qualified" Asians and Whites getting in over "more qualified" Asians and Whites? I keep bringing this up and you and many others choose to acknowledge that this occurs. Actually there has been one poster who has addressed but he said that when this occurs it's a "mistake." Anyways, why aren't you up in arms about this? I think I know why. It's because it's easier for you to scapegoat groups rather than acknowledge the complexity of the situation.</p>

<p><a href="I've%20heard%20about%20some%20study%20done%20by%20a%20princeton%20guy%20that%20found%20that%204/5%20of%20URMs%20in%20top%20colleges%20would%20be%20replaced%20w/%20asians%20if%20admissions%20were%20race%20blind.">quote</a>

[/quote]

First of all that Princeton study was based on data from the late 1980s and early 1990s so I think it's pretty safe to say that it is not a reliable reflection of college admissions today. Also, the 4/5 of URMs being replaced with Asians is not entirely realistic because in such a system colleges wanting a diverse student body would just give more weight to things like essays and recommendations. I am pretty sure that the study, which is in favor of Affirmative Action, makes this point. I just think that over zealous, ignorant, naive, immature posters on this forum choose to conveniently overlook that fact.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That being said, I have no clue why I this thread is 9 pages but I don't disagree with Affirmative Action, I would definitely rather not go to a school that is 70% (or some other high number) Asian/white, but just saying that it probably exists more than you all think.

[/quote]

Honey, you're wrong and you're doing a poor job of trying to convince us otherwise. What makes you think it "probably exists more than you all think?" Where is the evidence?</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's just that you get a few outliers once in a while that just seems totally unfair and bizarre.

[/quote]

Well you have outliers of every race, socio-economic background, academic achievement, etc. Why do you choose to focus on the outliers of specific races and gender?</p>

139

<p>You can cut it with the personal attacks. What are you trying to accomplish?</p>

<p>And how is my argument wrong? Affirmative action does not really affect white people, but hurts Asian people, who are obviously culturally more academics-based, and so do better in schools. If you make the same number of black/hispanics to apply to elite colleges as Asians, would there be much more black/hispanic acceptances?</p>

140

<p>It isn't a personal attack. Evidently it is a concept - that several people here have tried to explain to you - that you cannot seem to understand.
It's a fact.</p>