<p>As an Assistant Professor, I was pressured to work on Christmas Day by a colleague. It’s among the bits of pressure I’ve resisted.</p>
<p>I figure by the time the letter was sent, the LOR writer would have been able to say the following about the OP’s daughter:</p>
<ul>
<li>Asks for what she needs well ahead of deadlines</li>
<li>Organized and keeps track of due dates</li>
<li>Strong writing skills (since she wrote her own letter!)</li>
<li>Good follow through</li>
<li>Persistent</li>
<li>Willing to go the extra mile when necessary to accomplish her goals</li>
<li>Exhibits grace under pressure</li>
</ul>
<p>Congratulations to your daughter on her acceptances!</p>
<p>I repeat, my DH has worked many, if not most holidays, whether in the office or remotely, and one happens to be his birthday as well. Its part of his responsibility and it is what it is. </p>
<p>Many of us choose to get involved in volunteerism on may levels, in many capacities. If someone thinks its “showboating”, that sounds like a pile of rationalization to me. They say that 90% of the work gets done by 10% of the people. </p>
<p>If people think getting involved, whether in an activity that affects many, or a dinner with associates and students is somehow unpleasant, well that says a lot about them.</p>
<p>I am not claiming that academics is unique in its time demands–far from it. However, the people I know in my field work longer hours total than the majority of the lawyers I know. There are probably lawyers who work comparable or longer hours, and I just don’t know them. I have no idea about I-banking, and have asked for information about it.</p>
<p>I would not like for my students to know my hours–in fact, I go to some lengths to hide the hours from them, because I think it would discourage them from pursuing academic careers. The choice seems pretty irrational from the outside, but it makes sense when one is doing it. My work is my hobby (aside from CC :), of course).</p>
<p>One of my least-favorite memories involves my husband speaking loudly into the phone at 4 am: “Who created privity with the sub-contractor?” </p>
<p>I like intparent’s post #222!</p>
<p>I think we cannot know how long or hard anyone works in any profession. We usually just see the outcome. Many of us have burned the midnight oils or pulled all nighters in the course of our professional responsibilites. Again, it is what it is. </p>
<p>Some choose to go into professions that have little social interaction. Some folks prefer to interface with hardware than liveware (again- this is an analogy-- don’t take it literally)</p>
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<p>I am just relaying what I’ve heard from other Profs and grad student friends who had more senior advisors/colleagues with such attitudes. I don’t necessarily agree with those sentiments, but it’s good to be aware some more senior faculty with power over one’s academic/grad school careers hold such opinions so one can avoid such departments/Profs or at least…find ways to work around them.</p>
<p>These are not the grad students I am talking about who are active in volunteerism or social responsibility. These are the faculty. They make the time. And I am humbled by their willingness to get involved and volunteer their time. It is a noble sacrifice. Those who look down on it need an attitude adjustment.</p>
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<p>Probably none. So what? They have other tasks that they have to do, that don’t fit within a 9 - 5 context.</p>
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<p>Again, big whoops. This is what professionals in any field who have a strong work ethic and a desire to get ahead do. It’s not even notable or extraordinary. I can’t count the number of all-nighters I’ve pulled, whether buried in my home office or in some hotel room somewhere, and then had to spend the next day leading seminars for 40-50 people and coming back to my hotel room and doing it all over again. My spouse was just gone from 1 am - 4 am last night delivering a baby; he doesn’t get a break from his office hours today or surgeries today, and he works in the office / hospital 7 days a week and last til 9 pm on some of those days. Similarly for lawyers, for small business owners … It’s just not all that noteworthy, frankly. </p>
<p>I don’t know if academics are under some delusion that business professionals stroll in at 9 and leave at 5 pm, but that’s not the case at all, if you want to make something of yourself. Don’t get me wrong, QM. I’m sure you’re a hard worker with a strong work ethic and your dept is lucky to have you. But being surprised by an all-nighter or thinking it’s a big deal? That’s kind of bush-league, to be honest. That is just par for the course in the upper-middle-class professional world, regardless of the profession.</p>
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<p>Those of us in leadership positions in small businesses are “on” 24/7. My clients are around the world. If they need to talk to me on Christmas Day, so be it. Last Father’s Day (I realize not a major holiday, but nonetheless), I spent 8 hours on the phone with a client on Saturday and another 7 hours on Sunday. That’s what it is. Only recently have I had the luxury of actually doing nothing work-related on weekends – even so, I’m still always thinking about it, strategizing, checking voicemail / email to move things along, looking at the team’s priorities, etc. I’m no different from any other professional I know. I don’t know where academics started thinking they had it rougher than anyone else, but I don’t buy it at all.</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve sat at a computer from 7 am one day until 3 am the next, in order to get engineering drawings out for a client. I think I got up about three times during that entire period. You do what you have to do!</p>
<p>Exactly. And in that regard – what my clients want / need is what I have to do, and what my employees want / need is what I have to do. I don’t write LOR’s because that’s not my particular profession or business, but something like that would ABSOLUTELY be part of my job, because it’s doing what needs to be done. I think it’s very entitled on a professor’s part to claim that “oh, my job / life is so busy I can’t do LOR’s.” We’re all busy. Get over it. It’s part of mentoring junior people and that’s part of your job.</p>
<p>PG, MaineLonghorn and I are all describing life in the business world. It is no different than academia in terms of work ethic. Except maybe in the case of someone who makes excuses to not write a LOR, maybe it is different.</p>
<p>
Thanks, intparent–that made me smile!</li>
</ul>
<p>
H goes to the office basically from 8 to 5. He sometimes puts in extra hours if he has to travel, but otherwise his job is not all that much beyond the typical 40 hour week. I would consider him to be a “professional.” </p>
<p>Of course, he spends way lots of time working on our apartments, and is always on call if there is a problem somewhere, so he still works more than most people we know.</p>
<p>Well this business person doesn’t work nearly as hard as her husband! I do work odd hours though. I’m a night owl and procrastinator so I’ve stayed up late finishing work for deadlines more often than I should have. Meeting clients evenings and weekends is part of the job - very convenient when kids were younger and dh was home to look after them. (And he did work somewhat less hard before the grant situation got so ridiculous.)</p>
<p>I think you have misunderstood what I am saying, Pizzagirl. I don’t imagine that people in business work from 9 to 5. That would be pretty ridiculous to believe. A lot of people work in fields where “billable hours” are a concern. My father-in-law used to say that Booz, Allen didn’t care which 80 hours a week he worked for them. That’s quite a bit more than 9-5; and maybe the expectations at Booz, Allen have gone up since he retired. However, I have colleagues for whom 80 hours a week would seem like a “vacation,” truly. </p>
<p>I don’t doubt that many people work all night, or close to it, from time to time. I don’t think it’s a big deal, and agree that one does what one has to do. I do suspect that the frequency is higher for some academics than it is in many fields, however.</p>
<p>I know that there are people who have work/life balance. I make no claim to that. My remarks in post #202 are no joke–and pretty pathetic, I realize.</p>
<p>As I have said, I have written letters of recommendation for every student who has asked.</p>
<p>Empirically, I don’t know whether it is part of my “job” or not. By that, I mean that no one has ever asked me to provide any information about this component of what I do. I have colleagues who don’t write them. If one cultivates a sufficiently gruff and demanding persona, hardly anyone will ask for an LOR from him. One of my colleagues has just decided that a student who has spent 5 years in his research group should leave with a master’s rather than a Ph.D. I will be writing letters of recommendation for that student. His research advisor won’t. It won’t matter to anyone but the student (and to me, because it matters to the student).</p>
<p>
On what do you base that assumption?</p>
<p>**ETA-- the comment about not writing LOR’s was re: the comments of another poster, QM.</p>
<p>Other than when I worked the night shift, I’ve never had to work all night for my job. DH has gone through many periods of working 7 days a week, and working quite late into the night, but has never had to pull an all nighter for his job ever. So I don’t doubt that there are many careers which are similar. </p>
<p>Kudos to all you who can pull it off. I can’t concentrate when I get too tired. I never could pull off the all nighter even in college.</p>
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<p>It is well-known that academia is a tougher road than going to industry, at least in terms of science (i.e., being a professor vs. working as a scientist for a pharmaceutical company.) In industry, it is closer to a 9-5 job or 9-6 job, or at least, you can put in X number of hours and count on others to pick up the slack. The mentality is different. And certainly it is 24/7 or close, not in terms of whether someone calls you about work that you have to pick up the phone, rather in terms of that you had better be working every day.</p>
<p>As a prof in science, you are starting up and running the research group, rather than going to work and being a cog in the process. So it is similar to being the founder of the startup. I wonder if people would be so offended if they said that founding a startup typically took more work than joining an established company and doing the average amount of work expected.</p>
<p>Maybe this is the difference people will understand, rather than clinging to the “Hey, I work hard too” mantra.</p>