<p>Most folks have to fit in things like eating, going to the dentist, getting a haircut, their car inspected, help a friend or family member, etc. and hopefully there is some semblance of a social component. Even if going out for a movie or cup of coffee. Or leisure reading or exercise. It can’t be all work. Btw those are just examples. Realize not everyone has a car.</p>
<p>I should clarify that the person giving me advice not to marry was a faculty colleague of mine.</p>
<p>I have always cut my own hair. Chop a little off the bottom and it’s done. It doesn’t look that great, but it saves a lot of time.</p>
<p>I think we’ll see the Star Trek movie, maybe this weekend. It will be the last one I’ve seen since The Hobbit (which my spouse missed).</p>
<p>I think I went out for coffee with someone in 2008.</p>
<p>I joined an athletic club a few years ago, but haven’t been there since September. Or was that September 2011?</p>
<p>We live in a state with no car inspections.</p>
<p>We do help family members, and we read non-work related things.</p>
<p>It’s not a normal way to live, but it’s not at all atypical for my colleagues.</p>
<p>Oh, and when I am in Athens due to scientific conference travel, I always go to the Parthenon. Every single time.</p>
<p>I am not trying to make this thread <em>about me.</em> But I think it might help for people to have some perspective on the life of faculty members at research universities (at least in some departments).</p>
<p>One of the other posters said that he/she had to decline some requests for recommendations. I understand that situation.</p>
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<p>Doing a PhD or sometimes even an intensive masters is not too far removed from living a monastic existence where you’re expected by the advisor/department to eat, sleep, and breathe research in the field and coursework 24/7…especially if you’re single.</p>
<p>If advisors/department find some PhD/intensive Masters students aren’t that dedicated, that would be viewed as “insufficient seriousness/lack of commitment” and thus grounds for being kicked out of the program. </p>
<p>Happened to a couple of older cousins because they/their mother prioritized spending every weekend socializing at her weekend dinner parties rather than concentrated on the PhD obligations. </p>
<p>Scholarly side of my family felt that aunt and the cousins just “didn’t get” that when one is in a PhD/intensive Masters program…one must give up such things until one graduates, leaves academia, or has received tenure.</p>
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<p>You aren’t expected to be a monk, you are expected to do a certain amount of work in a certain amount of time, just like any other job. It just happens to be a huge amount of work in an often insufficient amount of time. If you get your work done, what do they care what you do on the weekends?</p>
<p>Spare me that it’s any more difficult to be faculty at a research university, or a PhD student, than it is being in any profession where you take your work seriously. Everyone I know works obscene hours, whether they are doctors, lawyers, I-bankers, or small business owners. Academia has no monopoly on work ethic. We all struggle with not enough hours in the day for all we want to do.</p>
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<p>When D1 was interviewing for a PhD program, she visited a university which is located on a coast. She asked one of the other grad students a question about recreational activities on the beach, and the student replied that in 3 years she had never gone to the beach because she didn’t have time. D1 eliminated that program from consideration. She is a hard worker and expected that a PhD program would be very demanding. However, she is not interested in living a monastic life or never leaving the confines of her research lab.</p>
<p>The program she chose is headed by a mentor who plans weekend outings with the lab to go hiking, cross country skiing, volleyball, bowling, group dinners with the spouses/families/SO’s of the students, etc. They work very hard and she is extremely busy, but this mentor tries very hard to give the students balance. She absolutely loves the program.</p>
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<p>There’s a monastic element where the advisors/department will feel entitled to put PhD/intensive masters students on notice if the hobbies are viewed as “time taken away from one’s research/work in the field” or perceived as bringing the department into negative repute. </p>
<p>One friend of a friend was kicked out a bio PhD program at a West Coast institution 20+ years ago because he refused to give up rock climbing at his advisor’s request despite more than fulfilling his PhD obligations.</p>
<p>How many letters of recommendation do I-bankers write annually?</p>
<p>I have an old high school friend who worked all night on a project of some variety for her law firm when she was an associate. One of the partners told her to go home and sleep the next day. My colleagues who have worked all night on research proposals spend the next day giving lectures, meeting with grad students, writing reviews of articles, working on their own publications . . . </p>
<p>I suspect that the hours might actually be greater for a faculty member at a research university (at least in some fields) than in many other professions, although my knowledge base is rather limited–my own observations, and the set of people I know. </p>
<p>I don’t actually know any I-bankers. Could someone who does give me a run-down on what the time commitment is typically like?</p>
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<p>He would have been welcome at my D’s program. Heck, his advisor would have gone climbing with him and would have probably recruited the other lab members to come along to learn. ;)</p>
<p>I know many people in all aspects of academia. They don’t live like that. In fact, several hold high-level professional offices, do political action work, etc., in addition to their responsibilities as faculty.</p>
<p>Some natural scientists don’t live like that, but a lot do. I don’t know any scientists who are involved in political action (except for a few like J. Robert Oppenheimer).</p>
<p>One of my friends threw an absolute fit when his wife asked him to assemble a shoe rack on a weekend, because he preferred to be in the lab. He’s at one of the HYPSM category universities now. I have assembled several bookcases on the weekends over the years. I am not at one of the HYPSM universities.</p>
<p>I just realized that I have to count my dentist among my better post-college friends. :)</p>
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<p>This is one reason why it’s even more important to research the culture of a given graduate department and personalities of Professors one hopes to work for. </p>
<p>Much harder to do in the days before the internet as sometimes even Profs at undergrad institutions may not know the full personalities or those personalities may have changed since they were last together as fellow grad students or young colleagues. </p>
<p>It’s also a reason that when one’s undergrad Prof warns students away from applying to certain graduate programs due to poor fit issues…he/she’s actually helping the undergrad avoid a crappier than usual grad school experience.</p>
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<p>Their respective department’s culture is either more open-minded or one of the departments in which political action work is considered part of their academic responsibilities(i.e. Politics). </p>
<p>This is far less accepted in other departments…especially those in STEM fields or those with senior faculty who regard such activities as “distractions” from faculty obligations or worse, “showboating” as a public intellectual*.</p>
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<li>Such faculty have issues with colleagues catering to the popular audience…especially in the popular Mass Media.</li>
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<p>Just asked my husband (professor at a Med School) if he considers writing recommendations part of his job. He said “Of course.” </p>
<p>He makes the time, but he does work crazy hours. Basically as far as I can tell he works non-stop from 7 am to 9 pm, with breaks for meals Monday - Thursday. Friday he stops at about 6 pm. Weekends he puts in 4-6 hours on both Saturday and Sunday unless I drag him away for an afternoon excursion. He didn’t work nearly this hard when he was getting his PhD. though we often went into the lab after dinner (which was easy to do since we lived across the street from campus.)</p>
<p>I guess my department (CS) is just incredibly laid back then…</p>
<p>Anyway, I wouldn’t apply the “monastic” lifestyle expectation to all STEM fields (or most really). Especially not ones like engineering etc, where that doesn’t fit well with the amount of interaction with industry. Many students come in to my program after several years working, and they are used to sleeping on the weekends :P. Due to the amount of work, you may end up a monk, but that is a side effect, not an expectation.</p>
<p>My department also has rock-climbing weekends occasionally…</p>
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Oh puleeze. This is such ridiculous hyperbole. I have a Ph.D. So do most of my friends/colleagues. We didnt and dont live like this. </p>
<p>As mathmom says, you make the time. There are plenty of jobs that have ridiculously grueling hours. My DH is responsible for something in an international company and is essentially on call 24/7. He FINALLY said no when someone in one of the european offices (who gets 6 weeks vacation with a big summer holiday) wanted to schedule something that was not urgent on Memorial Day. That said, I fully expect there will be other work-related things he’ll be doing on Memorial Day. He has worked on many, probably most of the holidays for the past 25+ years. Many jobs (physicians, attorneys, especially the younger ones) etc etc have demanding work schedules. </p>
<p>Work-life balance is important. It isnt about assembling shoe racks or what someone would rather be doing (I am waiting for my DH to fix the fridge) or whether or not IB professionals write LORs. They surely have other demands that other specialties do not.</p>
<p>and this
is offensive. The people in the political action and high level positions in state and national organizations do it because they choose to. They are not “showboating”. Good grief.</p>
<p>My current schedule (science prof) is pretty similar to mathmom’s husband’s schedule, except shifted later by 2 hours each day–i.e., 9 am to 11 pm on a typical weekday, with breaks for meals (drive-through Starbucks, drive-through McDonald’s, actual dinner). Some weekends are in the 4-6 hour category each day, others longer.</p>
<p>I agree with raneck that engineering is different. I suspect that many other academic fields are also different.</p>
<p>I don’t regard political action as “showboating,” but it would be accurate to say that I have colleagues who do, so I believe cobrat’s observation. One of my colleagues remarked about a grad student who organized occasional dinners and outings for the group: “I hate that stuff.”</p>