<p>I never took the SAT,went to community college, then state school UW transfer-aced the DAT test (great grades) and got into the University of Washington Dental School. My parents had no money at all so this was the cheapest route. I have a very happy practice and life even though no one on the boards here would seem to choose that route. Always wondered what I was missing-as my classmates from different UG colleges seemed no smarter or better prepared than anyone elses based on that. Certainly no correlation with current success.
Fast forward to 2010 and my twins are applying to college. Because I do very well financially no financial aid will be available. Daughter #1 is at UW and LOVES it, son twin is probably UW bound as well. Daughter twin is valedictorian of her public school 4.0, 800 verbal, rest well over 700. Ridiculous other activities. Applied to Harvard and MIT and her stats put her into above median acceptance range. Waitlisted MIT , rejected Harvard. She will probably go to UW honors. Wife and her family went to LAC's so pressure was there a bit. I really didn't understand what the criteria were until I read these threads and realised that the game is rigged. It's rigged because we have no lacrosse, sabre, swim, hockey,rowing etc, etc teams. Private k-12 schools costing 25-40k/year do. There is no legacy in my family (I'm first to go to college on my mom's side, 2nd gen dad's side-no ivy to be seen ;p)
I'm really happy she is not going to these schools. They would cost 700k to send all 3 kids.
They are not really MERIT based. It's all about "fit" which is funny really.
As it is they will all have no loans, hopefully graduate from my alma mater and be in position to go to any grad/prof program they want IF THEY PERFORM.
There is so much focus by kids and parents on "brand" and prestige and "connections" that education gets lost in the noise. Folks-first year Chem is first year Chem wherever you go.
I'm glad this silly process is over and I am less than impressed with the whole east coast game. Grats to all of your kids going to college (any) and you should all be proud of them :)
EDUCATION is really critical. :)</p>
<p>Harvard and MIT are among the small handful of schools that are a longshot for every applicant, even one with credentials as impressive as your younger daughter’s.</p>
<p>But there is a level of colleges just below Harvard/MIT where a student with her credentials would have a very realistic chance of admission. I’m speaking of such places as Northwestern, Duke, Washington University in St. Louis, Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, Emory, the University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and the top liberal arts colleges. Chances are, if your daughter had chosen to apply to several of these schools, she would have been admitted to some of them. </p>
<p>But she made a different choice, using UW as her backup if Harvard and MIT didn’t work out. Nothing wrong with that, either. You have a flagship state university in your state that people actually like. It’s great that your kids can take advantage of it.</p>
<p>You had what it took to succeed - you made it work with your intelligence and focus. It sounds like your children have followed in your footsteps which you can be grateful for.</p>
<p>There’s all kinds of people out there with all kinds of circumstances - there are many paths. CC allows parents and students to debate and consider the many paths available. It’s not so much about impressing one another, but about what’s the best fit, possibility, path. . .for your child or you.</p>
<p>Another reason I like this forum is that there are so many people thinking carefully about education and life’s choices - I learn something new everytime I log on.</p>
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<p>Not true. Some colleges allow AP credit or courses taken else where. Some require students to retake and they have to work really hard.</p>
<p>Surprisingly immature post from a dad lol. I’m especially amused that you assume your daughter deserved to attend Harvard based off of her “800 Verbal and above 700 other sections”. Go take a look at the RD Decisions thread for Harvard this year and I’m sure you’ll find a plethora of students who are just as, if not more, academically qualified than your daughter. When acceptance rates are below 10%, many excellent students get rejected, and hopefully you can realize that soon.</p>
<p>In all honesty OP, your whole post just comes off as spiteful, wrongfully indignant and childish.</p>
<p>You are upset because you didn’t like the outcome, but it doesn’t mean it wasn’t impressive that some kids got into those schools. I have no respect for people who couldn’t acknowledge other people’s accomplishment just because they couldn’t do it themselves. She is your third child, everything you posted couldn’t have been a surprise to you. I don’t understand why you didn’t have swimming, track, or hockey. It sounds like you are quite successful, you couldn’t afford any of those ECs? I think there are many ECs which did not require a lot of money either, like writing, volunteer work, drama…</p>
<p>Every parent gets upset when their kid is rejected, but not all of kids apply only to HYPS or our state school.</p>
<p>I am very impressed with every kid who got into his/her dream school.</p>
<p>There are many reasons to be bitter about the college admissions process. But “My daughter didn’t get into harvard because she didn’t play lacrosse.” is a pretty stupid one. She applied no where else besides UW, MIT, and Harvard? </p>
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<p>While it’s not a huge portion of the population, I’m willing to bet many attending the ivies are not legacies (or first gen), didn’t go to public school, and probably didn’t grow up playing polo, water or otherwise. </p>
<p>I don’t understand your needing to justify your daughter going to UW. I don’t get why you think she deserved to get into Harvard either but you didn’t exactly tell us anything superb about her that is wildly different from any other outstanding student. Test scores are just numbers. Thousands of Harvard applicants have got good numbers. The system isn’t a total meritocracy, but it’s not rigged because she didn’t play lacrosse, which, btw is offered at my public HS. So is swim, track, rugby, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, etc.</p>
<p>Good for her that she’s getting into Honors. She will likely do just fine.</p>
<p>However, Chem 101 is not the same Chem 101 everywhere, and just about anyone knows that. Sometimes Chem 101 is taught by a leading chemist in the field who is known as a good teacher, and sometimes its taught by an absent minded professor, etc. Education is a big factor in prestiege.</p>
<p>Hummm…sounds like you resent the fact that your daughter didn’t get into her “dream” school. Not sure why this is an “east coast game”. I see a whole ton of kids trying to get into UC schools.
…Maybe it was going to a community college? Maybe it was being open to all sorts of possibilities that kids dream about when considering going away to college? I just hope you let your kids open to those possibilities and opportunities you missed out on.</p>
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<p>There is no legacy for most of the applicants to apply to that handful of schools.</p>
<p>If “the game is rigged,” it’s “rigged” not because of sports, but because most (not all) private K-12 schools offer better opportunities in terms of coursework, not to mention more personalized service with regard to academic programs & college counseling itself, than public schools do, and the “Elite” U’s take a very large percentage of their freshman classes from private schools. </p>
<p>Terrific that it worked out for your family. More power to you. You will get no disagreement from most CC parents, probably, that great educations can be had at hundreds of institutions.</p>
<p>But do not assume that all or most applying to “the Elites” are doing so for superficial reasons, prestige reasons, or because they fail to see value in public U’s. Like many other S’s and D’s here, mine chose to accept an offer at an Ivy because she valued a more personalized experience than she would have gotten at her dynamite public U (also accepted at), but mostly because she wanted to spread her wings and experience the other side of the country. She thought it would be an expansive experience, and it has been, and still is. She has far more job opportunities on that side of the country than she would here. Much depends on the field that the student plans on or envisions.</p>
<p>Nor did she do sports, let alone Ivy sports.</p>
<p>UW is a fine school and his kids will be fine. We are all angry at any school which does not accept our kids, so I am very willing to give him some slack. I was most struck by his reference to “this east coast game” when, if he had substituted Standford and Cal Tech for Harvard and MIT, the results probably would not have changed. No one, no matter how wonderful they are, is sure of admission to the most selective schools because their applicant pools are so deep.</p>
<p>I have met many people on CC who go to mediocre public schools and make the best use of their resources and end up at top schools despite being middle class/not rich, unhooked, and having to learn the admission process themselves. Your kids can be wonderful people without going to Harvard/MIT, but it’s wrong to call the whole thing rigged when MANY applicants get in from diverse backgrounds.</p>
<p>Understand-I’m actually fine with her getting in or not, especially when I realised that they have something like 2 or 3,000 kids that are valedictorians and have perfect SAT verbal scores. Also don’t assume she would have gone-they accept her or not-she accepts THEM or not. It is a two way street-or do we really give that much power to these institutions? She loved Boston (we visited) and like the campuses and would not have applied unless she was serious-my other kids never applied to any of the east coast schools (except McGill-she was accepted with a scholarship there and loves Montreal as well). I’m Canadian, btw so it’s less expensive even than UW. She is still deciding. She is very happy with any of her possibles.
My point was that some EC’s(coincidentally many that the Ivies focus on) are not available in rural public schools and are in prep schools and urban magnet schools. She did most of the ones that were available.
I am quite relieved in many ways that she DIDN"T get in-I would have funded it if she told me it was HER dream and chose Harvard or MIT-it certainly wasn’t MINE. ;p
Folks-I’m very happy for any kids who go on to any college, especially their dream school.
I just sometimes wonder if the kids are really doing the picking, or is US News or their parents or…</p>
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<p>It’s a glass half empty/full game, honestly. Of course the power to choose what schools to apply to, and which to attend once admitted is in our hands, but most everything else is up to the school. Whether or not we are good applicants is up to us, but the actual process of being accepted is in their power.</p>
<p>It’s only partially rigged :)</p>
<p>Udub is a lovely school. (DS works there)</p>
<p>“There is no legacy for most of the applicants to apply to that handful of schools.”</p>
<p>Your statement is true. However, it does not justify that ‘the game is not rigged’. Based on Princeton’s admission data. For legacy, its acceptance rate is more than 40% while for ORM it is about 5%. The ratio is 8 to 1. If you think this game is not rigged. Think again.</p>
<p>One would argue that it is because Priceton’s legacy has a higher academic strength. I do not agree with that. The reason is as follows:</p>
<p>Assume HYPSM graduated roughly the same number of students in the post 30 years, assume all graduates from these five school have the same rate of children going to college and apply for Princeton this year, assume all these children have the same strength. If the game is not rigged and Princeton accepts 40% of its legacy, then Princeton should accepts 40% of the children of HYSM. Do you think this is what have been done this year. If so, then all accepted students will be the children of HYPMS this year. One would say that Princeton’s legacy will definitely apply for Princeton while only some of the children of HYSM will apply for Princeton, then why? It just prove that ‘the game is rigged’.</p>
<p>unimpresseddad, while I have sympathy for the feelings of a parent whose child was not accepted at their top choice schools, you really need to get a grip. Your remarks simply reek of sour grapes. Many public school students attend Ivy League schools and MIT (and Stanford and Cal Tech and Pomona and Harvey Mudd). The vast majority of them do not play lacrosse or compete on the swim or hockey teams (All of which, btw, are available at the public HS in my Maine school district, population about 9,000 between two towns. I agree that rowing and fencing are rarer at the HS level.) </p>
<p>There was no reason to leave your D with no choices at all between Harvard and MIT and UW. She probably would, as others have pointed out, gotten in to many really elite colleges and universities, including Ivies, that accept 11% or 20% of applicants instead of 7%.</p>
<p>I wonder if your tune will change if she gets in off MIT’s wait list. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>As it is, she has two fine choices.</p>
<p>The competition at the top is tough. My daughter; very similar stats as your daughter decided not to even try to apply to Harvard or Yale, etc. Her reason was that she was tired of testing and didn’t want to take SAT II tests. What she was hoping for was to be recognized by an elite type of scholarship at either Clemson, UNC or Duke. It wasn’t in the cards and she realized, as did I, that even though she has had a very busy and fulfilling high school life with meaningful EC’s, her EC’s were rather normal and there are kids out their with above normal EC’s that outshine her, even though I know she would have done any of the schools proud as an elite scholar. </p>
<p>I agree that there are those who have had opportunities that really make them stand out that my daughter and I were unaware of or were not even available to her. Does it mean that we should lament over this. No way. I never wanted my daughter to do anything for the sake of college admissions. I always wanted her to choose her EC’s based on her interests so she could learn more about herself. She did just that. She has been very involved in theater, swam varsity all four years, starting a reading club at a local elementary school (she is a voracious reader), participated in a local church reading group and built websites for some local businesses (for pay) and non-profit organizations (for free). As far as I was concerned she was tops and as far as I am concerned she IS tops, even if some adcoms don’t agree.</p>
<p>Even though her high school schedule left my head spinning there are others out there with some very unique experiences that shine more. We don’t resent the schools. We have accepted that the competition is tough at the top and I am very proud of her accomplishments. She also understands that there are applicants out there who meet certain needs of the schools and on paper may not look as impressive, but they obviously have something that shines through. </p>
<p>In any case, she is very happy with the school she will attend and fortunately for her it is a school who bases big scholarships on stats not holistic judgments. Does she feel as if she is losing out. Not on your life. We both believe things happen for a reason and I honestly believe there are phenomenal opportunities awaiting her at her public state school. Heck, this school year they have already had a Rhodes Scholar winner in microbiology and a Goldwater Scholar in Biomedical. Maybe she will be their next big winner or maybe not. Whatever happens I know I will continue to be very proud of her and she will continue to shine. I am sure your daughter will do the same.</p>
<p>I did ask her last month if there was anything that she would have done differently in high school and she said no. She has enjoyed high school, has grown from her experiences and learned quite a bit in her classes.</p>
<p>“It’s a glass half empty/full game, honestly. Of course the power to choose what schools to apply to, and which to attend once admitted is in our hands, but most everything else is up to the school. Whether or not we are good applicants is up to us, but the actual process of being accepted is in their power.” </p>
<p>Probably part of my not undertanding is the whole “private” thing and who gets to choose. Growing up in Canada the “public” schools were actually quite good and respected over the private ones in most cases (McGill is technically private but not by American standards) All of the "top schools"in the US seem to be private and also the “top high schools” Being “exclusive” means excluding people and that’s cool if you are CLEAR about your criteria. I don’t think many private US schools are very clear at all about this-so I am a bit biased against this private vs public exclusive slant. Just being open about it. They become “exclusive” by not admitting qualified people. When you compare the median SATs for admitted students with the stats from college confidential (assuming CC posters are honest about stats)you may notice there are alot of kids with much lower stats who are getting in and not posting why they did on this forum. Because they are private they are under no obligation to say. It’s privledged info.
I’m happy for those kids too btw :)</p>
<p>The game is rigged, to a certain extent. In any given year, they are attempting to make a class of the best possible students they can find, while also not going bankrupt and being able to offer aid packages in order to keep the school diverse…this is more challenging than it looks, imho. They have a finite # of spaces to make this work. But it isn’t only rigged for sports, or legacies…it’s also rigged for international admits, for racial balance, for what are called URM’s, for trombone players one year and viola players the next, also it’s rigged to keep it 50/50 boys and girls if possible. So, yeah, it’s rigged.</p>
<p>OTOH, I hear McGill is a really exceptional academic experience and very rigorous, as well…and Udub is just such a great state option it’d be hard to pass up for anyone! </p>
<p>I know it’s hard to watch your daughter get rejected. Dad’s really don’t like to see that kind of thing when there’s nothing they can do to “fix” it. She’ll be okay. She’ll be great.</p>
<p>“There was no reason to leave your D with no choices at all between Harvard and MIT and UW. She probably would, as others have pointed out, gotten in to many really elite colleges and universities, including Ivies, that accept 11% or 20% of applicants instead of 7%.”
I didn’t leave her with any choices-she chose where to apply-not me. We visited Wesleyan and Middlebury and she decided to apply where she did. I think that’s a good reason :)</p>