This year's applicants - please listen

<p>Andi, I also wanted to say that I think that s should not try to hide the reason for the gap year, though. If he finds it natural to refer to the reason, then I think he should. I had a personal experience years ago when I was competing for a huge graduate scholarship. I had detoured into a career after college for personal, family reasons. I finally extricated myself from all that and was pursuing finally what was in my heart. I was asked at an interview (big table filled with inquisitors) how these two endeavors were related. I came up with what I thought was a clever comparison, but truthfully the similarities were irrelevant to the reason I had taken those different paths. I didn't get the scholarship. I will never know the real reason, but I have often wondered if my answer didn't ring true. I think in retrospect that I should have matter-of-factly told the real reason because there was nothing horrible in the reason. If he can avoid the reason, fine, but if he finds he needs to mention it, then I think he should. </p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>HIMom --gee your ID is worse than Mom of the 2 Incas, ha. It is hard not to say Hi Mom!
it is true that you do not have the luxury of doing classroom visitation during senior year etc as easily. But perhaps you should think about how you might use one mainland trip and get to a couple places depending on your view of how dicey admission is and how much your student needs to actually see a place. My son made appointments to see graduates or current students at four of his six schools that we knew or sort of knew--they will be home for Thanksgiving for instance. The students were very forthcoming on issues like workload, grading, recreation, diversity, religious atmosphere, and fun at each place. You should definitely go ahead NOW and put in formal requests for Alum Interviews--different animals at each institution. One top school's Alum interviews are arranged by alum networks and our local network malfunctioned. Despite repeated requests, his interview took place probably about the time decisions were already made which was very frustrating. Another Reach Alum network only offered interviews based on the date your application arrived..there was a cut-off. My son was interviewed by a wonderful person who advocated for him, his best friend was interviewed by someone from the same university who seemed uninterested, and who kept leaving the room to attend to small children. Another school offered trained seniors who did evaluative interviews...and this was "optional." He made the five hour drive and put himself out there to have an older student "rate" him in person and my son is rather shy. (That was in in-state school and competition is intense for it from state residents.) You are in a different category from a state that is desirable for geographic diversity. Amazingly, our fall college trip was on FF miles--I just threw out the mapquest folder used for that trip last night. My S and I flew north for two days senior year and did campus tours and interviews. It was quite bracing to see schools for the first time he was applying to..and quite informative, and only then did he also realize that being in the top quartile etc did not mean he would be admitted. We could see with our own eyes that his only Ivy student body was very unique. The kids were all rugged individuals who did not resemble each other. He attended a couple classes at two match schools and made sure to have a meal or an afternoon with students. He emailed professors to alert them to his class attendance before showing up (as directed by admissions). My S's class visit trips were not all smooth...some Fridays classes are often "off" for reading, exams or papers. Fridays could be busts in classes, but did afford the chance to see what the kids do with free time which was actually interesting. The schedule on school websites is not written in stone..you have to email the Prof. One Prof denied him a visit because it was the day before an exam and not a lecture day, and the class was all about review. After each class he sat in on, he wrote each professor a very brief thank you email. He did overnights Labor Day weekend and near Election weekend at two somewhat drivable locations--I know how hard it is to miss school and how impossible it seems, but I am convinced these visits altered his essays. It was a strain to get there, but now it is a great shared memory. These trips were both about his sorting out his perceptions about each school (beyond the hype) and showing interest. It is never clear how much admission folks care about showing interest--they claim they don't keep records etc, but inconvenient though the outings were, the visits truly helped his essays sharpen up and become visual and emotional pictures of how he could run his life at each institution should he be admitted.
It is my impression that your residence may be an advantage in that they will give your S or D a serious look due to the natural desire to have many states represented in a class. Visiting each of the schools I believe made my son more braced for rejection from his Reaches and more able to imagine life at the match schools..another benefit. His references also appreciated that he seemed ready to go to Match schools happily. Selling your "list" also has to take place with references if you want your references to have clarity about your S or D. Teachers can look at that list and think your family is mixed up. But if you can convey why each school will work for you well, your reference letters will also convey this vision. My son went to his references and kept them up to date about the above trips with brief stop and chats all autumn. In this way, his references began to be more interested, and they were rooting for him by the time they actually wrote those letters. In his case, we learned all the letters were written during Christmas break by our overworked public school teachers and one teacher did not even send hers in till January. The advice nugget here is that the visitations also inform your references back home and increase their conviction that your child could be a fit for each school.</p>

<p>I agree with atlantamom on not resurrecting the recent rejections in the new apps -- whether the schools in question are re-applies or new-applies. As momrath mentioned, for the new-applies, past rejections are a non-issue & frankly none of their business. For the re-applies, I think a fresh start looks much more good-sportsmanlike & mature. (Thereby also reinforcing the maturity gained already from the beginnings of a gap year!)</p>

<p>There is a lot more emotion & bonding on CC than there is toward candidates by an admissions committee. Had he a new, and non-admissions-related calamity or tragedy in his life (like he needs that), & that was fertile topic for a brand new essay, perhaps the emotion conveyed would affect an adcom. Otherwise, re-hashing admissions traumas will, i.m.o., not be persuasive, not give him any edge over current seniors, & may backfire.</p>

<p>Think about this, andi: His previous applications were the basis of his rejections & waitlisting. Do you really want to <em>remind</em> adcoms of this fact, remind them of the candidate as previously presented? No, you and he want a fresh profile. He is a new man; he has a fresh, clear look at his horizons from a new perspective of a gap year. Gap year has given him insight into his purpose, his talents, his academic strengths, his reasons for attending ____University. Convey all this, & he's much more on-target as a successful candidate & human being. They do not have to be told about his <em>reasons</em> for a gap year, btw. After all, plenty of students are <em>accepted</em> to a college and yet defer that acceptance in pursuit of gap yr activities.</p>

<p>Let me tell you something, as crass as this may sound. My daughters are involved in an e.c. which involves intense competition. When a competitor is stuck on a certain level, or has recently lost, it is not uncommon for that competitor to physically re-invent herself/himself for the next round of competition. (No, not plastic surgery, LOL, but a dramatic change in appearance.) The reason? Not as a form of dishonesty, nor an emphasis on superficialities, but for 2 reasons: (1) the main one -- the Judges "see" this person as new, fresh, without preconceptions of previous failures; (2) just as important -- the competitor's self-image is transformed, allowing that person to perform confidently & without "memories" of past failures affecting the present.</p>

<p>Were I on your son's admissions committee <em>this</em> cycle, and if I happened to remember that he was a previous candidate, I would be more impressed with his emphasis on the present & future (brushing himself off after a fall, standing upright & moving on, with NO REFERENCE to past app. attempts) than on any written explanation of "what he has learned." What-he-has-learned should be expressed as an application that is now in a diff. category than what Was.</p>

<p>In the above e.c. I referred to, a competitor about a yr ago had a fall during a local competition. The usual, natural impulse is for the audience & the helpers to race up & assist the possibly injured competitor, & for the judges to offer a fresh start or a delay. The competitor firmly & maturely refused all of that attention. This competitor's performance was about 4th or 5th place in quality, but the sportsmanship was First Place. She finished 2nd, because the judges loved her attitude. </p>

<p>In this round, since he will still have intense competition from graduating seniors in your region, & from the same high schools as his, he will still need an edge. Maturity will be that edge. Let that application show that. Please.</p>

<p>Himom-
As far as disclosing a disability or problem to the admissions people - as long as you don't come off as poor me but show how you have uniquely overcome your problem, I think that may set you apart from the crowd. If you can show what you have learned because of it and how it will affect your future or how you might do things differently than someone else because of what you have learned this is a great asset. My daughter's essay was about overcoming her disability and I was nervous how it would be received, but it was such a big part of her life (and they say how a person should reveal themselves in their essay) that I thought they should know and if they didn't like it, then so be it. That is who she is! It turns out that she was accepted to every school she applied to except her reach school which gave her a guaranteed transfer after one year at a different college.</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughts. We have visited some campuses (though not sat in on any classes). Son has 4 APs this semester & 5 next semester & am not too thrilled about him missing class to visit campuses, but we shall see. As soon as we can get him to firm up his list of schools (it's still got about 40 schools on it), we can start zeroing in more). Part of it will depend on how well he does this 1st quarter & semester of senior year.
Son is more inclined not to mention all that he's overcome, but I think it's a big part of him & how he's become stronger & more compassionate than most his age. The counselor may help guide us more on this; he's indicated that son needs to mention it somewhere on the ap. His references (including the GC) are aware of his health issues. His physics teacher had him all last year & is having him for a 2nd year this year. Thanks SBMOMOF3; glad your daughter got into so many of her schools.</p>

<p>An earlier CC thread </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=864%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=864&lt;/a> </p>

<p>discussed the definition of a safety school. My definition, contributed to that thread, is </p>

<p>"a safety school is a school that</p>

<p>"1) is pretty much certain to admit my kid, based on its known behavior in acting on admission applications,</p>

<p>"2) has a strong program in an area my kid is interested in,</p>

<p>"3) is affordable based on its known behavior in acting on financial aid applications,</p>

<p>"and</p>

<p>"4) is likeable to my kid." </p>

<p>The program matters, and the financial aid policies matter. And, no, it's not a safety school if there is only some probability of getting in. It's a safety school if and only if the school can be COUNTED ON to admit an applicant with your profile. (Many state flagship universities admit "by the numbers," and that is the kind of school in my state I can regard as a safety for my son. In some states the state flagship university is less of a sure admissions bet, or is less of a good fit academically or financially.) </p>

<p>Demonstrating strong interest during the college search process in your safety schools is a VERY good idea. </p>

<p>The 2005</a> College-Bound Seniors Total Group Profile Report by the College Board shows just how many high school seniors around the country have high SAT scores--it is very many. If an applicant's percentile rank is below the 98th percentile, there is a whole echelon of schools that will likely be VERY HARD for that applicant to get into. That's because the applicant is outranked by one out of every fifty people around the whole country on those statistics, so that the other desirable aspects of the application have to be particularly strong at the national level to be competitive. </p>

<p>Best wishes to andison, and many thanks to andi for opening this timely thread.</p>

<p>Having a history of achieving without the benefit of perfect health is always interesting and seldom sappy in my book. I wouldn't shy from it, but I would seek out "listening" to essays by gifted writers who have experienced health crises...Reynolds Price, and many others, just to help him reveal himself rather than just tell the facts. Make a list of how not having the privilege of having good health impacted him, and think specifically about which qualities in his personality are more evolved and deeper from the challenges. It is those pockets of insight and maturity from adversity that you want to get across more than the tale. Specific epiphanies and specific insights are always interesting, all you have to do is avoid Readers Digesty formula storytelling. Health may threaded in his essays, but also include your son's sense of Place, Family Roots, temperament and outlook. It is so hard in short format to hit those marks! Of course your S is much more than his reactions to health adversities but I believe Adcom readers like making these connections and are astute and experienced enough to find each student unique. Good luck on this journey..we all want doors to open for these great kids.</p>

<p>Saw some references encouraging andison to apply to tufts since he would likely get merit aid there. FYI following is from their website:</p>

<p>From Tufts Student Services, Financial Aid website:
"Tufts does not offer any merit or academic scholarships. All aid is based solely on financial need and is not adjusted for superior academic performance or extracurricular activities. The only exception is a small ($500 per year) Tufts National Merit Scholarship program."</p>

<p>just also want to chime in to thank andi for posting this here. reading your original saga had a real impact on me - we're through the process now (at least until younger child is ready) but know many going through it over the next year or two. i often try to get across your message and am so often met with the knowing smiles of parents who i know are thinking "yes thank you, but of course i know that could never happen to my child."</p>

<p>what i think everyone has to understand -when it comes to the top schools, its a buyers market and the colleges are the buyers. all the mail, e-mail, etc they do to court students fools a lot of students in to thinking that THEY are the ones controlling the market - but they're not. colleges want to get the best applicants they can so that they can have as much choice as possible to assemble their class.</p>

<p>Faline2,
Thanks for your suggestions. Son is pretty ambivalent about how he will handle the health issues. As a parent, I have seen him grow a great deal, but you are correct that it needs to be sensitively handled. I think the GC & one of his teachers will mention it as well, since they have watched him perservere through adversity.</p>

<p>I agree that Andi is being generous and thoughtful to post this again for this year's crop of applicants and their parents because her experience is important for others to learn from. Her son's experience is gut wrenching particularly when talking of an excellent student who you'd expect to be going to college and now cannot (this year). </p>

<p>I suggest to current applicants and their parents to become VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE about selective college admissions (if you are applying to schools of that nature, as Andison was). I think there is a tendency, and we saw it with Andison, in certain circles or just in general, to assume that a top notch student will get into a top notch school. I have read numerous posts on CC over the years where students post their list of schools and the schools are all highly selective and I shake my head. I can't even understand a guidance counselor allowing such a list. Then again, even educators who are uninformed about the current state of affairs with elite school admissions exist. I know in my kids' schools, teachers and guidance counselor all would say about my oldest D (currently a soph at Brown which she LOVES), "she'll get in anywhere she wants" to which I would have to inform them, "I don't think so. She is a reasonable and approrpriate candidate to the top institutions in the land but when we are talking of acceptance rates in the single digits or teens, you can be exceptionally qualified and not get in because there are way more qualified and worthy candidates than slots. So there is an element of luck as to if that admissions committee thinks you fit a slot in that particular class. NOBODY, I don't care if you are God's gift to mankind, lol, can feel certain on getting into those schools." My D and I were VERY aware and well read on what elite admissions is like TODAY. My D, therefore, did not EXPECT to get into the reach schools. She did not have ONE favorite she pined away for. She liked ALL of her schools. She had a most preferred or favorite pile, next favorite pile, etc. but liked them all. I'd say she had three first choices (btw, I am talking preferences, not necessarily her three toughest schools). She applied EA to Yale and was deferred. Did she get upset and downtrodden? Not a bit. Sure, she'd have liked to have gotten in (was ONE of her first choices) but she realistically knew that this outcome was a STRONG possibiliity given the odds and so expected it as a possibility and went on. It was NOT her only favorite either. Her guidance counselor to this day cannot believe she did not get into Yale but WE can! We know she COULD have gotten in but we also know the odds are overwhelming that she would not, by the admit rate alone.</p>

<p>My daughter had a balanced list of reach/match/safety schools. She put EQUAL energy into researching each school, contact with the school, the visits, etc., as well as the actual applications. She treated them all the same. This was not so much a strategy but she wanted to learn as much as she could about each one (she might be going there!) and also had all to gain by putting forth full effort into pursuing each one. I want to add that for very top students like her, safeties need not mean some "consolation" school or tagging on the state U (no problem with the state U if you like that school but there are many other safety schools). It also doesn't mean that the safety school needs to be an EASY school (again, talking of top candidates as she was). She had 4 reaches, 2 matches, and 2 safety schools. I really suggest TWO safeties. Her safeties were pretty safe for her but not gut schools. They were Lehigh and Conn College. Also, her state U offered her a free ride and Honors College, though the school was not on her list but since they made that offer and waived her app fee, she sent it in so she actually had that, though had not intended to apply and her list was made without them. That school, for her, was more consolation or guarantee but she actually truly LIKED her safeties. They weren't her favorite schools on her list but she liked them enough to attend. One of her match schools was one of her three faves, above some of her reach schools. </p>

<p>Andison's list was not realistic, though I understand how this happened because of less knowledge about the elite school admissions process, which they have now learned oodles about! How a GC allowed it, I'll never know. The school that Andi is referring to as her son's safety (the rest were truly reaches for ANYONE), was what I would have called a MATCH school for her son, and particularly as a music kid at that specific school. He also didn't show interest. Having only ONE match like this, made the odds more difficult. More matches, along with 2 safeties, and odds are, he'd have gotten into at least 1 or 2 colleges, and not talking of the easiest schools in the country which were not necessary in his case.</p>

<p>I don't agree with NYUMom's assertion that these schools made a "mistake" about Andison. NO, they did not make any mistakes. We can't see why they took Kid X or Y over her son. There are MANY factors that go into building a class amongst a pool of way more qualified students than slots available. The fact that some students from her school got in with lower SATs, etc., isn't shocking. WE don't know what else those students brought to the table or how they fit into a specifc need in the class. We are also only talking about one school on his list. I hardly think Yale made a mistake about MY daughter. She was one of LOTS of highly qualified candidates. We accept that fact and the situation with elite admissions. We knew it going into this game. You can't run into the school as a parent saying, you made some mistake about my kid! Sorry, can't agree with that strategy. </p>

<p>As far as the waitlists, Andison did a lot to get off those. As others have said, some schools take no or few off of it. The only thing I would have done differently about Andison's waitlist (am familiar with the details from last year) was to have pursued EACH of his waitlists with rigor, not just his favorite at the time, given the odds. He put a lot of energy into that one particular very difficult school and the odds of taking from the waitlist are slim in the first place. I'd have increased the odds by putting lots into EVERY waitlist school. Further, I would have had both the kid AND the guidance counselor (who needed to advocate heavily here) explain that he not only wanted off their waitlist but had NO other options at that point and would send the deposit in 24 hrs if accepted. I would have explained the situation fully at that point and had the GC go to bat on that point. Would it have made a difference? Who knows, maybe not. But overall, they really did try so I don't agree with what NYUMom wrote about this aspect. </p>

<p>Taxguy, Tufts does not offer Merit Aid. Tufts is NOT a safety for anyone, nor Andison. My D who had excellent stats and achievements, including being val, considered Tufts a match. Tufts has an acceptance rate of about 23%. It is nobody's safety. I can say this as someone who has interviewed for Tufts for 10 years. I have interviewed vals who have been rejected. Most of the candidates I interview are top students. I could outline for you LOTS of things my D did in terms of attention to this school. She never treated this as an easy admit. She did so much with them. She even considered it a "high match" cause of the odds. That was as a double legacy to boot. My D's attention/contact with this school (as with others) wasn'tt to game anything. It was genuine and served her own purposes of exploration of the school.</p>

<p>Andi, I would NOT have your son write an essay that revealed his previous rejections. Somewhere on the app, discuss the positive parts about taking a gap year. They do not need to know the reason. Emphasize new growth. </p>

<p>Andison should have a positive outcome this time because they are wiser about the process for selective admissions colleges. Her post serves as a warning to those who build college lists with all reach schools and barely any matches and NO safeties. NO student can afford to do this. I don't care how stellar you are. Further, putting equal energy into each school and expressing interest that is genuine matters. Have safeties you actually like. Don't tag on State U just "because". Don't pine away for one particular school (particularly if that school is a far reach for all candidates) because you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Have a favorite "pile", a next favorite, and so on. That way, you can end up a happy camper if you get some acceptances. </p>

<p>My D had seven acceptances, one waitlist, one deferral that ended in a rejection. I feel her list played a part in her success. I am not talking of lowering her list or expectations to get a good outcome. Her list included four Ivies in fact. Her SATs weren't as high as Andison's. There is WAY more to a candidate than the SAT and so it is easy for people to armchair and say, what? some other kid with lower SAT's got into X college and not this woman's son? Her son AND those kids, fit the ballpark of stats for the school. There is a pool of students in their app pile who are qualified. Then they pick kids going beyond their stats. There is much more to it. We don't know everything about her son nor have seen his app, nor the other kids. Even if we did, luck plays a part in the lottery at elite colleges. They build a class. Your kid may or may not happen to fit a slot or need in it, simply put. KNOW that going into it. You must have schools on the list where being well qualified gets you in, that are NOT the crapshoot of the top schools. </p>

<p>Please learn from Andi and her son. She is doing you a service that many of us tell new prospectives about the possibilities all the time because she can actually relate a real experience here! </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>just some more support for what has already been said.</p>

<p>we know a kid who had their heart set on an ivy league - a goal that was fed by parents, friends, teachers, and gc. threw in a 'safety' just for the heck of it. guess where the kid is since it the only school they got in to. and the kid is miserable there -- still thinks they "belong" at a better school, while the truth is the safety has an excellent program in what they want to study!</p>

<p>as parents we always want what is "best" for our children and we encourage them to strive for the "best." sometimes we really have to stop and think what is really in their "best" interests. (and comment such as previously made that a parent just has to fight hard enough to get their kids where they want, don't, I think, help much in fostering a realistic approach among parents.)</p>

<p>Following up to post #131, yes, I agree. This is the ONE time in your child's life when the parent is unable to control the outcome for their child. The decision if out of their hands. It is scary and new territory for a parent, frought with nerves. Where your child gets in is really up to somebody else! You can't fight to get your child accepted. Your place is to support and guide your child through the process. The outcome of the admissions decisions are made by someone else. You don't like what they decided? Well, that's life. Help your child cope. Help your child to make informed decisions. Help your child create realistic college lists. Help your child with the admissions process. Let your child decide where to go. And so forth. </p>

<p>I have to relate here that this idea of "fighting for you child with regard to admissions" which is very foreign from my experience reminds me of something I observed once. I recall on our visit to Lehigh, they had tours that day but no information sessions. While waiting for our pre-arranged scheduled tour, I asked out of curiousity why there were no info. session that day and they said, our adcoms are inundated with calls from parents today because the decision letters just went out. I was very surprised at that notion. Parents must have been calling up to complain, I have no idea, but I cannot fathom it myself. This is one time in your child's life where you can't fight or advocate for what is going to happen to them in terms of if a school admits them. It might feel uneasy and stressful that you can't control your child's outcome but you can guide your child so that he/she has some positive results even if not their first choice. Parents play a role but not the one advocated by another poster about fighting to get their child accepted. My feeling is that some adcoms would not consider the kid after a parent going overboard in that way as this is not their place in this situation. Behind the scenes, sure. With the adcoms, no!</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Sorry to have made such a ruckus! I just want to clarify that my post earlier stemmed from the first-hand experiences of families who live within my school district/township (one of the most competitive in the country) who have actually been down this road either recently or currently and who happen to be well-educated, well-connected, etc. Students/parents who live in this particular area (wealthy suburb of a large metropolis) have actually been able to network themselves/their kids into certain schools. In fact, this was the advice that I received from the kids/parents themselves, and some of it was in the form of a lecture, believe it or not. It was in the form of "this is what you need to do...". Apparently, it must have worked for them. And these were not legacy cases. So I wasn't making this up by myself - it's just part of the way of life in this area, and it starts at the nursery school level and works it's way up. The kids are raised to believe that the world is their oyster, and nothing will stand in their way.
So, please, don't chew me out. I was only reporting what I encountered in my own community - obviously, not in sync with the rest of the country. Also, my heart goes out to andi and son. I don't think I knew the full story, because I came into this board kind of late, and must have missed something. I hope and wish them the best in their journey. We're all going through this process together, so I would like to remain supportive - I just think that living where I live must be in a skewed environment. Sometimes it doesn't feel real.
Best wishes.</p>

<p>"The kids are raised to believe that the world is their oyster, and nothing will stand in their way."</p>

<p>wonderful lesson. sorry, but if this is supposed to make your prior postings seem better, it just doesn't. entering college is a good time for kids to start learning that the universe doesn't revolve around them. actually, kindergarten is probably a good time to have learned that.</p>

<p>there is a difference between encouraging your child to do their best and reach their highest, and teaching your child that they are entitled to everything and mommy and daddy will make darn sure they get it.</p>

<p>oh and the mom of the kid i referred to previouly who is miserable at their safety school - when we were both at the beginning of the application process, that mom tried to give me a lot of advise such as you describe your friends giving you. she really thought she knew the application process inside and out and that she was guiding her child to the college of choice. over confidence can be very dangerous.</p>

<p>NYUMom, I can appreciate that you come from a certain kind of community and what the norm is there. Actually, and this is no offense intended, I am really happy that my kids did not grow up in that kind of community or competitive school setting. I read about it all the time and my children have friends from out of state from communities and schools such as yours and so I am a little aware of that scene (likely not FULLY aware) and it is SUCH a contrast to where I live in rural Vermont. I think you are from the suburbs of Philadelphia from other posts and in fact, I grew up in suburban Philadelphia and am flying there tomorrow. I believe you about stories of other parents doing this and likely with some success with whatever "strings" they have pulled. I have met folks online who have shared stories of having those on the inside pull strings and so forth. I know someone who got into a school this year (is from suburbia of another city) whose stats were FAR below for the school....he was in the 90th percentile of class rank, had 920 SATs, GPA of 2.5, easiest classes, few ECs but had part time job...and I would have said no way to his far reach school. I know they knew someone but I don't know if that played a factor, though I know they were going to ask the person to advocate on their son's behalf. It does blow me away. I guess we played by the rules. My kids did all right. I was only involved as their guide but not directly with the colleges. And my kids came from an unknown public school that the colleges do not know. One of my kids was the only one in her entire class who got into ANY Ivy League school (she got into two, waitlisted at one). My other kid was the only one in her class to go to her college as well. I'm well educated but I am not well connected and would never have imagined getting involved directly at any of my kids' prospective colleges. I certainly did not give money, lol. My kids are on financial aid even.</p>

<p>The scene in communities such as yours is a world apart. Some of it is not pretty. I'm glad I don't live in that atmosphere. It kinda reminds me of the end of the spectrum of this book I read, The Nanny Diaries....that one talked of parental actions to get their kid into the right nursery school and I guess the scene you describe is the college end of that. Anyway, I know you are sharing from a perspective of the norm in your area. It is just foreign from my norm in the hills of Vermont :D.
Susan</p>

<p>unbelievablem:Maybe you shouldn't be so harsh to judge. I'm sorry that you can't relate to it. I'm just reporting what is the norm for my area and for other wealthy, suburban communities. I'm not saying saying whether it's right or wrong. So chill.</p>

<p>sooviet: Thank you for your understanding. You know exactly what I'm talking about having lived in this area. It's unfortunate that this is the way the educational system is set up here, parents sending kids to wealthy private/prep schools just to get an edge, when our public schools have a stellar reputation. Students/parents are obsessed with getting ahead (almost to the point of having OCD), more than what's normal for the rest of the country, but probably similar to other weathy U.S. communities. I agree whole-heartedly that it's always better to play by the rules,but people in this community are extreme over-achievers (many Ivy league graduates themselves), and are obsessed with doing the best for the kids. Sometimes it's almost to the point of insanity.</p>

<p>Andi--just wanted to say how glad I am that Andison is having some great experiences during his gap year. We all were hoping he would find a silver lining to his cloud-filled spring! You are great to be letting everyone know how important it is to have a balanced college list, even though it is painful to think about what you have been through in the last year. </p>

<p>We got the first taste of the college process with our daughter's application year, and she is a junior at the school that was ultimately in her top 3, though not her original first choice. Her HSl was wonderful about conveying the message about the ultra-competitive nature, and seeming randomness of the admissions process, and worked very hard to help each student form a list of schools to which they were well-suited, as well as reaches and safeties. They were candid and supportive throughout the year. We cannot imagine her being at a better place, and she has been so happy.</p>

<p>Last year our s went through the process, and his school (different HS, both went to single-sex schools) was also very well-versed in the process and advised him and us beautifully. He was at the top of his class and we knew that he "should" get into any school he wanted, but the reality of the situation was that he couldn't count on any of the top schools to which he applied. He was very lucky and was accepted at 5 out of the 6, including the school to which we had always envisioned him going (and that's where he is, a terrifically happy camper!). The one he didn't get into--well, they took a lesser qualified student from his class, and that hurt, but we have gotten past that. It is not where he was meant to go.</p>

<p>We will look forward to hearing excellent news from you, Andi, about a truly successful outcome to Andison's applications this year--he is certainly deserving!! Good luck!!</p>

<p>Andison didn't have a balanced list at all. He didn't apply to enough places as well. I have never seen anyone regret applying to too many schools.</p>

<p>slipper. It is only too obvious that he didn't have a balanced list- that was the purpose of this thread to begin with! Hello!!</p>

<p>However, I disagree with you that eight schools was not enough. A knowledgeable GC could have put together a list of eight that could have covered the bases. From what I have learned here, it would have been better to have chosen more wisely and put more attention to the preparation of each different school. That's the strategy for round II</p>