<p>Andi: Thanks for sharing your story, and still rooting for Andison!</p>
<p>Lots of great info in this thread. Building on the concept of safeties, I don't believe that ANY school with an admit rate of less than 45-50% is a true safety for ANYONE. Too many variables out there, especially if the school in question is an LAC. I think that if a top student really wants to apply to a school with an admit rate in the range of 40-50% as a safety, one safety is not enough. That student, no matter how stellar, ought to have at least two safeties. (I love the idea of applying to a school wth rolling admissions as a safety; having that admit in pocket by Thanksgiving gives real peace of mind.)</p>
<p>Eight schools was enough. The issue was the list was not balanced. I had a kid who was going for very selective admissions and she had 8 schools, but a more balanced list. I had another kid going for 8 BFA programs which all had an acceptance rate of under 10% (that kind of program is another issue all together, none of those programs are safeties) but her list was still a total of 8. I don't suggest much more than ten schools because once you get over 10 or 11, you cannot possibly put the same amount of energy and contacts and thorough visits and attention into each school. So, the number here was not the issue. The unbalanced list was and the lack of equal attention to every school on the list, not just the top or favorites. Andi and her son have learned this and that is the lesson to glean from their experience.
Susan</p>
<p>I think if you apply to enough top schools you can hedge your bets pretty well. For example my initial college list:</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Brown
Duke
Michigan (got accepted in September so it was my "safety")</p>
<p>Last minute at the advice of a friend I added:
Columbia
Northwestern</p>
<p>Guess what? I only got into Columbia and Northwestern. Otherwise I would have had to go to Michigan, and I didn't want to go to a big state school. I applied to many reaches but by applying to enough I actually got in. The worst decision though was ruling out schools early. I didn't apply to Dartmouth, Amherst, Penn, Williams because I ruled them out for dumb reasons. When it came to choosing between NU and Columbia I so wish I had applied to Dartmouth or Penn, schools much more my style. I ended up transferring to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Yes, Slipper, I agree with Andi on this one. I don't know what happened to Andison, none of us really do, but assuming that applying to more reach schools will somehow overcome the poor odds is something of a trap. Statistically, the strategy should work for someone with stats in the upper 25% of the pool, perhaps even for someone in the upper 1/3. But, I think more often than not, what happens is that none of the apps are done well, or are properly thought through, and the person fails all around. Sometimes, whatever is wrong with the "first" app, is wrong with all of them. I also truly think that for these very selective schools, especially small LACs, they really look for the match, and if you don't come across as a good match for their student body, they won't take a chance on you.
This is one area where usually fewer is better, especially if the few are thoughtfully chosen.</p>
<p>The only time I think you can play the stats game, is if you have been accepted early (rolling) to a school that you are happy to attend. A person in that fortunate situation could make a good case for concentrating on reaches at that point, or even have one of those viewbook barbecues, and enjoying the remainder of senior year.
For most students, though, schools are not equal - the rolling school may be an easy, early admit, and acceptable, but not as good as a match school with merit aid, so that it is worth it to the student to go on through the entire process.</p>
<p>Good luck Andi & son, I know there will be a better outcome this go around.</p>
<p>We cross posted Slipper, and I wonder if your story might even illustrate my point, you concentrated on reaches after a good rolling admit, but in retrospect, except maybe for Princeton, those were not the type of schools that were really for you - could it be that showed through your app? UMich wouldn't count, because propaganda to the contrary, they still admit most people based on a formula.</p>
<p>Okay, I think you are missing the point here. Andi is not bragging about her son. She is trying to help out folks who have kids or are kids with "impressive" stats. College admissions to the most selective schools really are that unpredictable and everyone must not think they are immune from the risk of rejection. Andi just wants everyone to be prepared and possibly avoid the pain her family experienced last year.</p>
<p>I don't really think andi was bragging, but providing some background to highlight the recommendation for a balanced list.</p>
<p>I can work in the reverse, too. Some students have few or no reaches, and wish they had some once the acceptances come rolling in. Maybe it's a case of overconfidence or underconfidence?</p>
<p>Godfather I think you are wrong. I think Andi's post will be very helpful to alot of kids. She needed to describe her son so that other kids similar to him will listen. The CC of my daughter's school is planning on sending certified letters to parent of kids that have top heavy lists with no safeties telling them that the school will not be responsible if their child does not get into any schools.</p>
<p>nyumom - you hve backed off your original postings quite a bit. you now say you are just telling us how those in your community behave. but you started out using that standard as the example of what parents should be doing and to criticize how much effort andi had expended on behalf of andison. (perhaps you didnt intend to be critical, but it certainly came across that way). </p>
<p>the problem is i can relate to the attitude you describe very well - i also live in an affluent area where parents go to great lengths to help there chidren along the way to their dream college. and many of those parents were in for rude surprises when the college acceptance letters didnt' flood in. a good dose of reality such as andi has offered is to the benefit of all such parents and their children.</p>
<p>I did say that there is a helpful element to this thread, but I feel it could have been conveyed without all the banter about her son's fabulousness.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think NYUmom's statements that families affluent communities successfully use these agressive tactics is not true. I know many people with kids in similar districts and these tactics, if pursued, rarely succeed and sometimes backfire. These parents are definitely proactive and well-informed about the process.</p>
<p>No, Godfather, Andi's son's "fabulousness" is essential information. You have to know how high his stats and achievements are (did you look back at the earlier thread) to know how unexpected this result would be for most people. In my opinion, you just simply misunderstood her reason for this information. Be sensitive.</p>
<p>I'm currently in this program at school for the more intelligent ones of us, don't know how I got in really. We do a lot of testing to make sure we are learning this and that. It's standardized testing sort of stuff for advanced dudes and all that.</p>
<p>I've been pulling the highest scores since the first day. When people ask me "how did you do?" I say, "I did fairly well."</p>
<p>I don't say my exact score, which most of the time is near perfect.</p>
<p>godfather I didn't see your post but I'm glad it was deleted. I first posted last spring to learn something and I posted this fall to teach others what I've learned. I'm not in the field of education or college admissions- just an average parent who probably thought she knew about college admissions based on what she herself experienced back in 1970. Things have changed a great deal. I'm glad the mods deleted your post because critical posts just take away from what others might learn.<br>
I'm not sure if you thought I was bragging on this thread or the original one, however, I thought carefully about how I would describe my son. I wanted to portray him as a kid, who intelligence and a love of learning came naturally to. To me, one of the important factors in his outcome was that - here, in a day and age when some kids are pushed to achieve what they may in fact have little interest in, was a kid who REALLY loved to learn. I had to describe this in order to get the story across.<br>
There is something to learn from this story. I can gnash my teeth all I want about the results but it doesn't matter. Times have changed and other parents and students can learn to avoid some very disappointing results.
I'm grateful to all the posters here who have taught me and I'm just passing along my knowledge to the next round.</p>
<p>Well thanks for the helpful things that you've posted, I just resent bragging.</p>
<p>Like I said, I never release my numerical score on anything, I don't need to hear anyone's amazement to feel good about myself, nor do I need to belittle what to them might be a good achievement.</p>
<p>I ran across your posts on another thread and see that you are someone who really needs to listen to Andi. You have some great stats yourself, but find some good schools with higher admit rates that you think you'd like to attend. You may be admitted to some of your reaches, but you may not. Competition is intense and the adcoms are looking for a "class." I suggest you read a little of Andi's original thread. You can find it if you look at one of the earlier posts on this thread. Her son is an accomplished musician. You'll see some similarity there.</p>
<p>Actually I was just thinking I'd definitely appreciate some posts from people on this thread on my thread.</p>
<p>It seems like everyone here knows a lot more than me about this whole college thing.</p>
<p>I've recently been opened to the idea of liberal arts colleges. My teachers seem to condemn the idea of big universities with lecture halls. I'd appreciate some suggestions on those.</p>