<p>Meh . . . I agree that it’s different circumstances . . . however, just because Harvard matches aid for a student’s freshman year does not obligate them to do so in subsequent years. For example, had my son (the Yalie) gone to Harvard, I’m pretty certain Harvard would have matched his FA from Yale for his freshman year. But there’s no guarantee in later years. My point in bringing this up is that although Harvard claims to have the better FA among the Ivies, that’s not always true for every family every year.</p>
<p>Each school offers different financial package to an applicant based on how desirable the person is to the admissions office. It is not as black and white. If you are a top admit, they will make it happen for you to attend. For subsequent years, as long as the family’s financial circumstances remain the same, the package is similar every year. If your son went to H, they would have matched the Y offer for freshman year and keep it similar the following year, as long as income/aasets remained the same.</p>
<p>^ No Ana, that’s not true. The Ivy League Conference stipulates that all Ivies must give aid based solely upon need and that they cannot give one student (a coveted athlete, for example) better aid than someone else (that’s called Merit Aid). See: [The</a> Ivy League](<a href=“http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index]The”>http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index).</p>
<p>^That’s about athletics and it just stipulates that you can not offer an athletic scholarship to someone because they are athletes and that the athletics coaches can not offer money because, “only the Financial Aid Office has the authority to determine financial aid.” The key in the document is “provides financial aid to all students only on the basis of need, as determined by each institution.” The FA office decides how they want to structure the fa package, whether they want to approve a waiver, etc. I am not talking about merit scholarships. Let’s say we have student A, with $90k and assets. Instead of requesting $10k for family contribution, we request $3k from that student. Or I give an all grant package, instead of throwing a work study in the mix. Do not forget, they are the arbitrators of what demonstrated need is.</p>
<p>As an admissions counselor nicely explained it:
“Like it or not, colleges will use their limited financial aid resources as a tool to entice those students that they want the most to enroll. So, more “desirable” students will receive more favorable aid packages than other admitted students. The “most wanted” students may have their full need met while others are gapped. They also may have a better ratio of grants to loans to work-study with a much greater percentage of non-repayable grants in the mix than other students receiving aid. That means that aid packages will vary tremendously from student to student just as they will from school to school.”</p>
<ol>
<li>Ysquared</li>
<li>Swimfreak001</li>
<li>EricDHChoi</li>
<li>GoldenBoyCXVII
5- Nyboy22</li>
<li>TheGovernator</li>
<li>hotair</li>
<li>HSMCCP</li>
<li>Apoc314</li>
<li>cloudless33</li>
<li>Heyitsme2012</li>
<li>kimisizer</li>
<li>detoidi</li>
<li>cck0000</li>
<li>createyourself</li>
<li>Sarquois</li>
<li>kimchee1212</li>
<li>scatman45</li>
<li>batfan</li>
<li>blinelight</li>
<li>theviolethour</li>
<li>moy2414</li>
<li>Stonesn</li>
<li>dancergirl0304</li>
</ol>
<p>Sorry Ana, you are misinformed . . . and the information you are quoting from an admissions counselor is wrong, at least as it applies to HYP. All students at HYP (athletes and non-athletes) are all treated equally – that includes a no-loan policy, identical student contribution, same term-time job opportunities etc. Here’s Cornell’s take on it:</p>
<p><a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/28002[/url]”>http://cornellsun.com/node/28002</a></p>
<p>"Financial aid in the Ivy League is “need blind,” meaning financial aid is calculated and awarded the same way — solely based on economic need — for every single student. Academically, according to Ivy League Principles, student-athletes must be “generally representative of their class and admitted on the basis of academic promise and personal qualities as well as athletic ability.”</p>
<p>“What Harvard is doing now, in many cases, they’re in fact giving a full athletic scholarship. [They’re offering this] to every student, but including student-athletes,” Bilsky said. “Harvard’s package, and Yale and Princeton’s packages are now getting so advanced that the schools are not going to be able to tell coaches in advance ‘we’ll match any package that anybody gives in the league.’”</p>
<p>Any idea on Harvard’s yield? Keep us update ;)</p>
<p>gibby, I know very well the guidelines and none of the links you offered has anything to do with what I refer to. You are missing my point. Demonstrated need for each student is determined by the individual university. The structure of the packages are not equal for all in the same university. No school guarantees that the fa package will be structured identical for every student, even if need/assets are identical. The ivies and other full need schools only guarantee that they will cover 100% of demonstrated need as the school calculates it, not as the family does. Lets say student A and student B both have demonstrated need of $30k in financial aid. That’s the only guarantee provided. That both students will ge $30k in aid. However, student A who is classified by admissions as tier 1 will get an all grant package, and student B who is tier 2 will get a mixture of grants and work study.</p>
<p>As a Harvard (and Yale) parent, I know that what is printed on the web-site is accurate. [Determining</a> Need](<a href=“http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&pageid=icb.page246754]Determining”>http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&pageid=icb.page246754)</p>
<p>There are no merit-based awards, and we have no preferential packaging policies that give some students more attractive awards than others. The expected family contribution may include a parent contribution, a student income contribution and a student asset contribution, each of which is discussed below.</p>
<p>But the financial aid office determines the need and the packages and that is really the key. The person who defines the need and is the arbitrator of facts can present them any way they want. Each student is supposed to be examined as an individual case for financial aid and only guaranteed to have the need covered. I can define the need as I want if I am the judge. If you believe everything that is written, then you will also believe when they say that they do not have quotas per category, a blatant lie, but instead they call it “target.” Anyway, we are getting out of topic for the thread and each can believe what they want.</p>
<p>At Harvard (and Yale) there isn’t one person who defines need, it is done by committee – just like the admissions committee – it is a group decision. And are there are no preferential packaging policies that give some students more attractive awards than others. Unless, of course, you believe Harvard is lying on this issue.</p>
<p>Gibby, there are many ways for any complex institution to offer aid, without being direct aid. I’ll talk in generalities, without naming schools. An example are the bequests with very loose definitions of how need should be defined for the recipient of the specific scholarship. For example, there are specific funds that can only be used for students with need from country or region x. For a school to use the funds the definition of need gets greatly expanded. These restricted bequests may also offer additional perks, like stipend for a computer, etc. The funds may also come from an outside scholarship. HS X may have funding specifically for a student who will attend x or y university. There are also special funds that can be distributed to a department from the president’s/dean’s office to cover research needs for work the student will do with a professor at the department.That student usually gets a personal call by a department head, big professor on campus, to come and work with that faculty. It is the same process used by universities when they institute policies hiring a faculty from a targeted population. For example, if you hire a double or triple whammy (female/URM/veteran) as they are called, you get funding to pay their salary directly from the special fund and does not come from the departmental fund. Harvard also offers scholarships that are not need based. If you belong in the restricted fund group, you get one, an example is the Downer descendants scholarship. <a href=“http://www.scholarship.harvard.edu/aid.html[/url]”>http://www.scholarship.harvard.edu/aid.html</a>
The criteria for “Most of these scholarships and fellowships are restricted to students who meet specific eligibility criteria established by the original donors” and these criteria are not always need based.</p>
<p>The scholarships available at [Committee</a> On General Scholarships](<a href=“http://www.scholarship.harvard.edu/aid.html]Committee”>http://www.scholarship.harvard.edu/aid.html) are available to a small number of students (sometimes as low as 10-20 students) and if a student receives one of them, aid is DECREASED from your general scholarship (just like outside awards) so that a student does not receive more than their determined need. </p>
<p>Are you a Harvard student? If so, please consult the Harvard Financial Aid packet that was sent to you when you were admitted. I’d love to provide you with an on-line pdf, but it is not available. The packet details how Harvard calculates aid on an equal basis for every student with a parent contribution, student contribution and term-time job. As a Harvard parent who has compared financial aid with other Harvard parents, and one who dealt with the Committee on Financial Aid, I can attest to the truthfulness of their website. If it were not so, many individuals would have sued the school – and they haven’t.</p>
<p>Gibby, I am not a student but someone who has worked for years in the greater Harvard University system, with senior administration, and I am intimate familiar with how the system works at all levels, not just from chatting with Harvard College parents. In addition, anyone who has worked in a complex organization knows how things work in such institutions. Are you going to sue a school because the department/professor will get extra research funding from accounts that belong to the discretion of the director/administration and will be used to pay for a student’s research. conference travel, etc? Is not this an indirect merit? I offered the example of staff hiring because that’s what people are more familiar with. Do employers advertise that if a targeted group is hired by the department, the salary for the first x years will come out from a special school fund and not the department? No. Only people present in the policy meetings are aware of that. If someone wants to offer funding, they can do it in many legal ways.</p>
<p>I’m going to let you have the last word on this, as we obviously will continue to disagree on this subject no matter how many posts each of us make.</p>
<ol>
<li>Ysquared</li>
<li>Swimfreak001</li>
<li>EricDHChoi</li>
<li>GoldenBoyCXVII
5- Nyboy22</li>
<li>TheGovernator</li>
<li>hotair</li>
<li>HSMCCP</li>
<li>Apoc314</li>
<li>cloudless33</li>
<li>Heyitsme2012</li>
<li>kimisizer</li>
<li>detoidi</li>
<li>cck0000</li>
<li>createyourself</li>
<li>Sarquois</li>
<li>kimchee1212</li>
<li>scatman45</li>
<li>batfan</li>
<li>blinelight</li>
<li>theviolethour</li>
<li>moy2414</li>
<li>Stonesn</li>
<li>dancergirl0304</li>
<li>2yuexue</li>
<li>OutofTheBlu</li>
<li>ravenclaw12 </li>
<li>np9494</li>
</ol>
<p>LOL: how unscientific is this? The people who are choosing not to stay on the WL aren’t visiting this forum any longer…</p>
<p>^ I echo the same sentiments. I want the real yield ;)</p>