xiggi, we get it, you don’t like teachers, we are just ripping off the taxpayers, drinking from the public trough, yes, we get it. Why is it that when folks need a doctor or a lawyer, you want the best–money is no object, But to educate your most precious “possession” (for lack of a better word), your children, you want to get the cheapest possible educator.
EVERY thread about education degenerates into teacher bashing. Please tell us what you do for a living, so we can similarly dengrate your profession.
I simply relayed information that I had learned at several living history museums about schooling in early America, and you turn into a diatribe. Well done.
MADad, that’s AWESOME! Well said! I would also like to know if xiggi has children and if s/he home schools them, since all teachers are barely able to tie their own shoes, poorly educated and only in it for the long vacations.
xiggi, we get it, you don't like teachers, we are just ripping off the taxpayers, drinking from the public trough, yes, we get it. Why is it that when folks need a doctor or a lawyer, you want the best--money is no object, But to educate your most precious "possession" (for lack of a better word), your children, you want to get the cheapest possible educator.
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EVERY thread about education degenerates into teacher bashing. Please tell us what you do for a living, so we can similarly dengrate your profession.
I simply relayed information that I had learned at several living history museums about schooling in early America, and you turn into a diatribe. Well done.<<<
What a heap of malarkey!
No, you REALLY do NOT get it. How do you reach the conclusion that I am in favor of the cheapest educator? What is the part of better wages you did not understand? Or the part of earning a deserved respect. The part of teachers being victims of the system?
I haven’t actually heard anyone say they want the “cheapest.” I don’t have anything against teachers; I’m personal friends with several. However, their union demands are strangling our state school system. Who else (besides politicians) gets free medical benefits for life? I know teachers retiring at 55 with generous pensions whose healthcare premium will be covered by taxpayers for the next 30+ years. Teachers in our district are well paid and they’re eligible for longevity bonuses totaling a quarter of a million dollars over the course of their careers. We’re counting the years until districts hit fiscal insolvency. The state is no longer underwriting these costs and communities can’t afford to, so they’re at a standstill…until districts fail and the state takes them over.
I wouldn’t encourage students in NYS to become teachers anytime in the foreseeable future. The state is pushing for consolidation, so I think the job market’s going to get worse for new grads before it gets better.
“Passionate, engaged teachers are severely lacking because of stigma around the profession.”
More importantly, i.m.o., talented, capable, brilliant teachers are severely lacking – not only because of misconceptions about what teaching is and is not (the skill, the intelligence, the creativity it takes to be a great teacher), but also because of the insidious blue-collaring of the profession by the teacher unions. Mind you, I am not denigrating labor unions, although clearly it must sound like that. Labor unions have their usefulness, albeit more limited in modern life than they once did. Jobs/sectors which fit properly into the labor union category by the nature of the job’s responsibilities and the power structure of that industry do not have enough in common with teaching to share that category. There are more differences than similarities.
The myth that gets perpetuated by quotes such as the one above is that teaching is mostly about emotion, not intellect. Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s just that in addition, one needs commitment. First comes training, brains, talent, creativity. Without those, passion is useless: save it for political demonstrations or romantic relationships.
Funny, I thought the low pay and lack of respect had more to do with the idea that teaching was the province of young, unmarried women and “old maids” (+ nuns) who really didn’t need the money to support a family.
Saintfan, I think it also comes from the belief that teachers aren’t very bright, that they’re lazy (because they’ve chosen jobs with long breaks) and aren’t very good at what they do. This has always puzzled me since the country is full of innovative, bright people who invent things, cure illnesses, truly make a difference in the world, and many, possibly most of them, were taught by teachers in the public schools-the very teachers some believe are a waste of space.
I absolutely do not believe that these bright people succeed DESPITE their teachers, but that there are, in fact, many good teachers who do wonderful things.
As nursing was also ( is?) considered a " woman’s profession, it’s interesting that nurses unions don’t inspire the same vitriol.
Unions are to improve conditions for the worker, not to improve the product. I do think that when the “product” is children, that a little more awareness regarding how job conditions affect the classroom is in order.
Professionals don’t abuse the leave policy.
My daughter had one teacher who took vacation a month into the school year, for her grandmothers birthday on the east coast. By the time she returned it was almost November, and the class had lost any cohesiveness it had gained, before her trip.
Combine that with her 5th gd teacher, the next year, who was in the classroom only enough during the next five years to not have to take official leave so that the school could hire a permanent substitute. She got away with this, by asking other teachers in the school/ district to donate leave days to her.
As a result, children in her classroom had rotating substitutes, for basically their entire 5th grade year.
However, union policies would not have had the negative impact that they did, if the principal of the school had done her job. Rotating principals at that school didn’t help either, as no one wanted to take on the teachers union and press her for a formal leave.
The principals also have a union. When the hiring committee declined to permanently hire an interim principal that had been assigned to the school by the district, she taunted the committee by saying that the union would make sure she had a job.
Which they did, even though she was new to the district. They put her in a few different schools, where she was still not a good fit, and then kicked her upstairs to district administration.
It’s amazing how many borderline ( incompetent) people are in administration. I understand protecting jobs, but the administration is swear word/ and so disconnected from the classrooms and families.
To directly answer the OP’s question - I would do my best to talk my kids out of it. As would Mrs Decidesomehow, who is a teacher. She is treated less like a professional every year. More time spend on assessments, paperwork, etc. She has to deal with “experts” who come in an give her a few weblinks that “solve” her problems - most of the time she already found the info herself. And so on (most of which has already been covered above).
Amazingly, she still does not want to leave the profession, because the moments where she truly makes a difference in a kid does make it worthwhile to her. That may be all the reason you need to pursue teaching.
You can tell by my handle that I teach in Massachusetts. I do NOT get free health insurance now, or when I retire. I am paying at least half the cost. I do NOT get free eyeglasses, life insurance, etc. I do NOT have tenure–it was abolished several years ago. I will work until I am 62, not 55, in order to max out my pension. I do have professional status, which merely states I cannot be fired merely because the school board chairman’s daughter needs a job. I can be fired for just cause. I am not “bulletproof” like in a tenure system. I HAVE seen teachers with professional status be let go. Administrators need to do their jobs and deal with poor teachers. Also, our pension system is separate from the rest of public employees. It is 90% funded–the missing 10% is the state’s contribution that they regularly default on. At least in my state, I feel there is good balance between unions and management. Teacher strikes very seldom happen, because they are illegal and teachers would immediately be jailed (it’s happened).
Now go one state to the south, RI, teacher unions have had too much power, and the state is accordingly in a mess. Teachers strike there regularly, as teacher strikes have to be declared illegal on an individual basis in court, which takes time.
I just get angry when folks who don’t know what they are talking about tell me how easy and cushy my job is. Yes, I live comfortably, but am not getting rich. Hence, my earlier rant.
Here’s what I don’t understand: If teaching really WAS that cushy, overpaid job that some claim, then why on earth wouldn’t THEY become teachers??
Everyone who ever went to school assumes that they know what it’s like to teach. I’ve given birth to two kids; that most certainly does NOT mean I have any idea of what it’s like to be an OB-GYN.
As to bad teachers, I’m sorry to say that there are people who are bad at every job on the planet. But I have to say that the vast majority of the teachers I’ve worked with, and my husband has worked with and my kids have had over the years, have all been dedicated professionals willing to go above and beyond for the kids they teach. (One notable exception: my youngest daughter’s 3rd grade teacher. I’m still hoping a house will land on her.)
Teaching, like parenting, isn’t for the weak. There’s a huge learning curve those first few years. The people who enter into the profession with the most confidence tend to be those who struggle the most. It’s those who are willing to learn, to ask for and take advice, who want to behave as the professionals we claim to be-- those are the teachers with staying power.
The day before yesterday I ran into a graduate of my school. I had taught her in 7th, 9th and 10th grade-- incredibly unusual in my school of 2600 kids. She said she still had the magnet I had given each of my kids when I taught 7th grade-- I gave it as a Christmas gift for them to put on their lockers. (I’m in a Catholic school, so that was OK.) She’s now a Junior in college, and still treasures a little trinket I gave her when she was 13. She may not remember a lot of the math she learned- though I sincerely hope that’s not the case-- but she remembers that I cared.
I think the reason teachers’ unions in NYS are viewed differently than nurses’ unions is because our property taxes pay for the schools. Communities can’t afford to give the unions everything they want, and the state won’t make up the difference, so districts end up cutting and our kids lose programs. We’re going to hit academic insolvency before we hit fiscal insolvency because we’re not going to be able to afford to pay for the courses the state requires (which our students need to be competitive in college admissions).
What I don’t understand is how we watch politicians cut back on education funding, from pre K to state universities, and then complain about class sizes, lack of updated materials and transient teachers. http://ourfuture.org/report/starving-america-s-public-schools http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=4011
There is a reason why both my kids are working in education, but neither are in a formal classroom, or even a school.
