Thousands to potentially see Pell grant cut

Paying for College
21

<p>My husband and I are obviously independent students and the Pell Grant news comes as quite a shock. I wonder does the below $23,000 income apply to both dependent and independent. That’s an insanely low income for a family (especially if the student has children). Also, people who received X amount of money previously, under the new guidelines would they now receive less (assuming they are even still eligible).</p>

<p>It’s not like the cost of living has gone down, so why they’d lower the income bracket just seems crazy to me!</p>

22

<p>The Pell semester limit will apply to 600%, I can say that with confidence. There is no way that it will be passed otherwise, since part time is a very legitimate way to attend school. Why on earth would Congress s**w over students who are working to pay for school? That is too dumb even for them …</p>

<p>Pell % used counts were just started in 08-09 or 09-10 (can’t remember for sure). No semesters before this are in the database used to monitor % Pell used.</p>

<p>Semester limits were imposed in prior years, but the rules were repealed right about the time the first students would actually have the Pell cut off due to too many semesters. I envision this happening again, although who knows.</p>

23

<p>When my daughter attended CC for a year she met many students who were not married and who did not have children yet they were attending CC for three, four and even five years. There is a young woman who works in a local store that I frequent who is currently in her 4th year at CC who has clearly stated that she will be there at least another three years. There needs to be much stricter guidelines for how Pell money is used. There are kids at CC’s all over the country who are staying in school for years failing classes every semester and repeating them while Pell Grant money is what enables them to do this. Take a look at the minimal GPA requirements to stay in some schools and it is surprisingly low. There are remedial classes that students take that are not counted toward their GPA and many kids are taking these classes over and over. Pell Grant money pays for that.</p>

24

<p>

It gets even worse than that. I know a kid who’s an engineering major with all his gen-ed requirements fulfilled, but who signed up for two easy, 1000-level, gen-ed courses that he didn’t need for his degree last summer. He did this for the sole purpose of collecting a summer Pell grant to pay rent and buy food with. Seems like a roundabout way to make money, but hey, it’s easier than getting a job, right?</p>

<p>It just blows my mind that stuff goes on like this - kids get huge amounts of meritless, taxpayer-funded money to go to school with (based solely on their parents income), and there’s no accountability in the system. Meanwhile, middle-class kids who don’t qualify for the entitlement programs have to work, compete for merit-based scholarships and take out high-interest loans to pay for the artificially inflated tuitions caused by government-backed loans and Pell grants.</p>

<p>I’m glad Congress is finally taking a step in the right direction. I think people are starting to realize that the best way to make college affordable for all is to get the government out of it completely. If you allow schools to run like businesses and compete to offer students high-quality education at low prices, they will. Unfortunately, by providing students with grants and guaranteed federal loans, the government has ensured that schools can raise tuition as high as they like, and will still be able to attract customers.</p>

25

<p>First look at the these figures:
[FinAid</a> | FinAid for Educators and FAAs | Pell Grant Historical Figures<a href=“especially%20note%20the%202008-09,%20’09-10,%20and%20’10-11”>/url</a></p>

<p>then look at the alternatives:
<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid)</a></p>

<p>there is more to these figures and alternatives, but you have to look at the Economy and Politics.</p>

26

<p>For every student you know who doesn’t deserve the Pell (in your opinion), there are MANY, MANY more who could not attend college without it. To pull the rug out from under those who need it because some scam the system is not a fair response.</p>

<p>As far as the two articles go, the first is no surprise. Many unemployed adults returned to school in the last few years, increasing the number of Pell recipients. In addition, many parents of dependent students either lost their jobs or had dramatically reduced income; this also contributed to the increase in Pell payments. Finally, the well-intentioned but unsustainable (and administratively nightmarish) second Pell resulted in a much-higher-than-expected amount of money being paid out. </p>

<p>The second article highlights what I have heard rumbles of in the past few years … take away the only assistance available to not-rich-but-not-poor families by removing subsidies … and take away the education tax breaks that also help the lower-to-middle-to-upper-middle class. </p>

<p>By the way, I heartily disagree with those who say that federal aid is too much and goes to those who don’t need it. Believe it or not, thousands and thousands of people who could not otherwise attend school benefit from Pell … and the majority of these people are better off because of it … which in turn is good for society in general</p>

27

<p>I think what some of us object to is that families often have to stick with a “I don’t care if you change your major, but you need to graduate in 4 years” policy." But this idea of providing Pell for 9 years just encouraged people to take their time, take the least number of credits for the max amount of money, changing majors, taking extra classes “for fun”, etc. </p>

<p>When people know what they’re dealing with…“I need to graduate in 12 semesters,” they tend to do so. They won’t change their majors unless necessary (just like those whose parents are paying), and they will try to cram extra classes in when they can, so they can graduate on time (in this case, after 12 semesters). </p>

<p>In Calif, state aid is only for 4 years. After that, you’re cut off. Always have to allow for the next crop of kids coming down the pike. </p>

<p>These guidelines cannot take into accpunt every odd situation. When guidelines try to take into account odd situations, they end up being far too generous and people take advantage…which ruins it for everyone when the well runs dry. Yes, there might be the single mom with 5 kids who can only take three classes per year…so she needs 15 years of aid. But, the system can’t be set up for that odd situation. </p>

<p>The words "well-intentioned but unsustainable " applies here as well. </p>

<p>BTW…some of same people who wouldn’t get their acts together to graduate after 12 semesters aren’t going to graduate after 18. And, why was 18 semesters considered enough? What was magic about that number? Nothing. There were people who didn’t manage to graduate after 18 semesters either…but they may have collected $45,000 in Pell dollars anyway. </p>

<p>I do think that with this change, the Direct Loan distribution should change. If a person can go to a CC for the first 2 years and not use loans (only Pell), then the student should be able to borrow $15k for each of his jr and sr years. That, combined with Pell, would give a low income kid $20k per year for his last 2 years of school…plus any work study. Maybe even giving some kind of “bonus” (some small loan cancelation) for not needing Pell for so many years.</p>

28

<p>To clarify my post #26 … the “your” is not intended to apply to anyone in particular. I wrote “in your opinion” because we tend to make assumptions but do not always now the true facts of the situation.</p>

29

<p>The program my D is in takes an average of 6 years to complete due to the intensity of the course work and the load. The last ‘year’ (senior year) more often than not takes 2 years to complete. If she lost her Pell Grant in September (her final ‘year’) this would be horrific for our family (a single mother who was on layoff for a year, and is only now back at 24 hrs a week). There is no other parent in the picture, there has not been one her entire life. I have been sole support throughout. My parents are both dead. There is no one I can tap on the shoulder and ask for help. She becomes ‘independent’ beginning the school year 2012 as well. Many changes come with that. </p>

<p>Wow.</p>

<p>Just wow.</p>

30

<p>My parents are both dead.</p>

<p>Did your dad just pass? You wrote this a couple of weeks ago…</p>

<p>I went with my dad to the shopping center the other day to buy some new shoes.</p>

31

<p>^^ That quote “I went with my dad to the shopping center the other day to buy some new shoes.” was part of a joke (I think it was originally Don Rickles, but I’m not certain)…my parents died more than 6 years ago.</p>

32

<p>

This simply isn’t true. I attend college with no help from my parents or the government - I pay for everything using merit-based scholarships and by working. If I can do this, how can their possibly be people that "could not attend college without the Pell’? Obviously, there’s a way.</p>

<p>Pell grants don’t make college more affordable, they encourage schools to raise their prices. The whole program is a failed experiment by Democrats designed to get them more votes. </p>

<p>First of all, there’s no incentive (or even encouragement) for a kid receiving the Pell grant to get a job. I don’t know a single person that receives it that has a job. Why does the financial aid system consider it a viable solution to simply hand them the money, rather than have them earn it? </p>

<p>Secondly, suppose there was some hypothetical situation in which a kid really couldn’t get through a year of school without Pell’s $5,500. Why can’t they just take out a loan for that much? That’s what middle-class kids have to do, even though everybody has equal ability to pay back their loans upon graduation.</p>

<p>

Really? You’d argue that the quality of education (and the quality of college graduates) has improved since Pell grants were created?</p>

33

<p>This simply isn’t true.</p>

<hr>

<p>I verified student files at a large public university from 2008 to this past summer. I absolutely do know what I am talking about. I have seen the tax returns. You have not, I presume. The school where I worked was in an urban area with limited, not-inexpensive, and unreliable public transportation. Jobs are extremely difficult to get - including work study jobs. Many students are unable to balance school and a lot of hours of work, due to the quality (or lack thereof) of their high school education.</p>

<p>You are to be commended on being able to manage what you have managed. That does not mean that others are similarly fortunate.</p>

34

<p>

</p>

<p>Congratulations. But you must (hopefully?) know that few colleges actually award merit scholarships and statistically, 'thousands and thousands of people" can’t qualify for them. Otherwise, there would be no merit. :)</p>

35

<p>I am absolutely a supporter of assistance for low-income students to enable them to get college educations.</p>

<p>However, the problem with the system at present is that it has been hijacked by the for-profit colleges, who promote themselves and admit people who have no business going to college. For the 2010-2011 school year, 7 of the top 10 colleges by total Pell Grant money awarded were for-profit institutions. Students at the top 4, University of Phoenix, Ashford University, DeVry University, and Kaplan University, received a combined total of nearly $1.9 billion in Pell Grant funds.</p>

<p>And those schools have atrocious records of graduating students with worthwhile degrees (indeed, graduating them at all).</p>

<p>Yes, we need to continue Pell grants for the truly needy who enroll in real colleges; we need to cut off the air supply of the charlatans. Unfortunately, that’s unlikely to happen; a recent attempt by the Obama administration to put real requirements on the for-profits was watered down to nearly nothing by the big money lobbies.</p>

36

<p>

Yes, whether these kids actually graduate from college is another problem. I know one kid that received a Pell grant during his freshman year, and then dropped out. This was two years ago, and he hasn’t returned to school, so what exactly was the point of getting taxpayers to fund that grant? (The kid had a wealthy relative pay his tuition, so he used the money to buy himself a used truck. Interestingly, when he posted his deed on his Facebook status, someone else commented “Hey, that’s how I bought my first car too!”)</p>

37

<p>

</p>

<p>Yeah, and one of the largest owners of a for-profit college also happens to be the Washington Post (and no politician will even think about going after it’s main business, Kaplan).</p>

38

<p>I wonder how this affects students who are pursuing professional degrees.</p>

39

<p>Pell isn’t available for professional degrees. It’s only for undergrad.</p>

40

<p>What’s the problem?</p>

<p>“The program my D is in takes an average of 6 years to complete due to the intensity of the course work and the load.”</p>

<p>Seriously? I work 50+ hours at a rather low paying job, live in an area with one of the highest costs of living, have to pay all the normal adult bills (high rent, insurance, etc), took 14 credit hours last semester and am taking 15 spring semester, paying for it with Stafford loans, double majoring in electrical engineering and physics.</p>

<p>What program takes 6 years? Why do people need to be in school that long? I’m on track to finish in 4 1/2 unless i slack it…</p>

<p>Last year I made 26000 working 2 jobs and don’t qualify for need based aid. I have no life, little sleep and a 4.0. Maybe it’s time for students to suck it up and sacrifice.</p>

<p>If they can’t hack it let them work or join the military, learn some discipline and try again later.</p>