@privatebanker – always pleased to keep things organized – thanks!
@hopedaisy – I agree wholeheartedly agree that things have changed so much. I applied to colleges in the days of carbonized paper, and certainly would not be considering the number of colleges D19 has on her current list. But I have much to learn and am completely out of my element in my D’s college major, so we have been learning together. We’re muddling through!
@hopedaisy: please tell your friend whose son has a 3.9 GPA that if they want to see if a residential college is a possibility financially w there’s a list or colleges that miscalculated yield ad there are quite a few that would offer academic challenge for a strong student and Christian to boot: I am thinking Luther, Augustana IL, UDayton, UScranton, College of St Benedict, Illinois College, Earlham, Elizabethtown, Pacific Lutheran. There’s also DePauw or Beloit (both very strong academically but opposite vibe: DePauw is work hard party hard, preprofessional; Beloit is quirky, service oriented, down to earth).
It’s worth trying.
Of course if you live in California, the cc may lead to a UC.
@hopedaisy In addition to what @MYOS1634 suggested, wisely, also want to encourage the possible route of transfer, after one year or two years. What they save on tuition at CC can be placed toward tuition at another school. Some schools offer some special opportunities for transfer students. While not Christian, I know that Connecticut College offers aid for transfer students – https://www.conncoll.edu/admission/transfer-applicants/
Other schools may also offer aid.
@privatebanker on both CC and IRL many “well meaning” people can assume that the B or C student should only consider a CC…Community College. Which is what I was referring to. The CC in this case seemed to be used both ways on this thread. CC is a great option for many, as is a gap year, or decade, or trade school or whatever suits the student and family. I only take issue when it’s assumed that it’s the only option for these kids and that’s just not the case.
@eandesmom Sorry for the confusion. I was saying the exact opposite. The b and c student in this forum can seem like the outlier, when in fact they are solid students. There are thousands of colleges and universities in the us. And the vast majority of the students in them are b/c students
Interesting graduation speech given by a university president went along these lines…my years in academia have led me to the following conclusion. A students go on to law school med school and grad school. The B and c students go on to donate the buildings these other students study in.
When I was in law school (as an A student prior to that), the saying was A students become professors, B students become successful attorneys and C students become judges. I was an A student in law school and have always made a living as an attorney. I have never had a desire to be either a teacher or a judge.
I prefer my drs pilots and lawyers to be the a students myself
@privatebanker : that was true in the past, when a C college student was likely a kid whose parentd had wealth and see it to get him/her in,
or who could afford to party his way tthough, then get help to start their company.
Nowadays college students wirh mostly C’s can’t even get internships.
So it’s cold comfort - or false reassurance for the current B/C kids.
Internships are not the only way to find and have a career. Some, are arguably detrimental if unpaid and putting the student into debt as a result. Work ethic, networking and people skills can get you a long ways. In some cases much farther than the A student who is lacking in some of those areas. And yes, it is possible to be an A student and lacking in some or all of those areas. Conversely an A student may posses all of those quality plus great grades and test scores.
There is no one path and no one said it would be easy. If they are then yes perhaps it’s cold comfort or false reassurance but if one is realistic about life in general the B or C student can do just fine. Many C students (B too) absolutely blossom in college.
@privatebanker I was not disagreeing with the outlier aspect on this forum (CC) and agree, they are the norm.
I think that, while they make a good sound bite, those generalizations depend on the kid.
In my experience, not all kids hit their academic stride “on time”–ie, by the start of high school. So many kids simply don’t do well in high school, only to hit the right college and soar.
So, no, I don’t want my pilot or my surgeon to have been a C student-- in med school or pilot school. But I’m honestly OK with the idea that he struggled in high school English or Geometry-- as long as things improved in college.
The reality is that the vast number of kids I’ve taught over the years-- even those A+++ students who tend to populate this site, won’t remember much of the math I’ve taught them. Unless they use the Precalculus, the work we’ve done this year will suffer the same fate as the State Capitols they memorized when they were 8. But I’m hoping that I’ve helped teach them how to learn.
Speaking of generalizations, here’s one: Lots of B and C high school kids learn that. Academics don’t come easy to them; simply showing up, paying attention and doing the homework doesn’t get them the same rewards it gets some of their luckier classmates. They’ve got to work longer and harder to achieve less impressive results. They’re not into grade grubbing; they’ve learned long ago that they’ve simply got to put in the time, get extra help, practice and practice some more. And I think those lessons will serve them well in college. And, far more importantly, in life.
To put it into local terms: I grew up as a NY Mets fans. Now, if you’re a New Yorker, you know how difficult a path that is. Being a Yankee fan is so much easier: you root for your team and they win. And win. And win. But that’s not the fate of Mets fans. We’ve got to have heart, to believe (to quote Tug McGraw) and keep at it, year after year, even when you don’t get the results you want.
Many (nope, not all) B and C students are like Mets fans. They hang in there, test after test, even when they don’t get the results they need.
And every once in a while, they win the World Series. But in the meantime, they learn something from the effort they put in.
Btw that’s why I said “c college students”. Some b/c hs students blossom in college or at least find their stride, while some top HS school students crash and burn.
Question – is there a thread for the upside down students? (And no, I am not referring to Stranger Things fans.)
Looking for advice on how to read/treat Common Data Sets when the unweighted/GPA is not in step with test scores. (“Upside down” meaning where GPA is below the 75th percentile and test scores are at or above the 25th percentile.)
Does upside down (as described) pretty much mean there are no safeties?
They do have matches and safeties: these students need to apply to appropriate test optional or test flexible colleges. Hiram, Emory and Henry, Doane, etc.
@OrangeFish I think there are safeties. Look for schools where the GPA is well within the range and that have high acceptance rates. Most likely these will be second tier publics, I think, what many on here refer to as directionals. Are there any schools like that in your state?
Ugh – I need more coffee – I reversed it – the GPA is under 25th and the test score is at or above 75th.
Sorry for the confusion! :">
@me29034 and @MYOS1634 – we are in Virginia and are looking in-state (JMU, CNU, VCU, UMW) and some OOS where the COA will be close to our in-state rates (WVU, Ohio U, Baldwin Wallace, among others).
@orangefl2017 : oh, then the advice above is only applicable insofar as test optional universities where he’s in the bottom 25% to average range for GPA would appreciate a “GPA marginal” student who will help bring their test average up. Those would likely have 40+% acceptance rates.
What exact GPA and test scores are we talking about?
@MYOS1634 – end-of-junior-year GPA looks like 2.8 u/w and 3.1 w; ACT Composite 30 (Eng 27, Math 28, Reading 34, Sci 30); SAT 1240 (EBRW 660, Math 580). Will retake ACT in June.
(Upward trend in grades, but still not stellar.)
@OrangeFish Why are you retaking the ACT? S/He is already lopsided. If the ACT improves, it will only be more so. At our school, GCs tend to be happiest when GPA and test scores match. If your test scores are significantly higher than the GPA indicates, it begs the question why and the stock answer is that the kid is lazy or doesn’t care. Now I know that may not be your kid’s reasons, but you are already going to be fighting that stereotype in admissions. I don’t see how a retake helps. Its not like s/he is going to get into more selective schools where a 30+ score is the norm, while having a sub 3.0 gpa.
I don’t know a lot about the schools in VA that you listed, but it seems you are on the right track for finding matches and safeties.