<p>sleeplessinbost,
Timing of the Ivy likely letter is very sport and school dependent. Also, to be brutally honest, it depends on the quality of the athlete. Some athletes command more attention and timelines aren’t so urgent.</p>
<p>Likelies were offered October of her senior year for my daughter (pretty average recruit for her sport at that level), but she was told by other non-EA/ED Ivies that they could still get her a letter, even after the first of the year, if she wanted to continue to consider them. PM me for specific sports and schools, if it turns out to be relevant to you.</p>
<p>I just want to add that we found it VERY helpful around here that S had interest from multiple Ivies…Until your D has a likely letter in hand, pursue any and all other interest and let the coaches know there is interest elsewhere. If she could get a decent scholarship offer from a non-Ivy that is academically equivalent , that is best of all as that is the one thing that can really move the process along. </p>
<p>I would not be shy about asking if she is a candidate for a likely letter - the coach’s answer will speak volumes. </p>
<p>As an aside, S did most of his negotiating via email so my husband and I could help him craft his position carefully and also parse the responses!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the suggestions and insights. It has all been very helpful.</p>
<p>Keylyme, her sport is not gymnastics. We are all comfortable that the coach is interested in her–based upon the frequent and consistent contact the coach has maintained since last Fall. Kiddo gave full disclosure at the beginning as to her stats, strengths, and relative weaknesses. Coach has seen her video which covered all events. And Kiddo’s scores in all events are more than competitive with the college’s current athletes.</p>
<p>Apparently, for her particular sport, the ‘tips’ are not given out until now as the coach had told her that if Kiddo was interested in the school, she could ‘sponsor’ her in a conversation just weeks ago. We just didn’t know when it was appropriate to make that deal. At the specific time, Kiddo didn’t really know exactly what she should say to that. </p>
<p>Our biggest question, i.e., timing arose because the coach also said that she has ‘only one, maybe two, but probably just one tip’ to give each year and we weren’t sure if it was appropriate to just say, “If you’ll agree to sponsor Kiddo, she’ll agree to make this school her first choice”. At the time, Kiddo was 90% sure this was the school she wanted, but there was that 10% ‘what-if’ factor about the other school she favors.</p>
<p>Based upon all the advice, experience, and insight received in this thread, I can see the answer now. Thank you all. If she gets the tip, great! If not, well, she’ll still most likely apply ED to this school.</p>
<p>^^treemaven, my D’s highschool coach described it as a mutual declaration of love. If your daughter is willing to say the L word to this program, forsaking all others, and the coach responds with a likely letter, the system has done it’s job. And much like “love”, it’s tempting to keep one eye on those other suitors who are slipping away, but resist the temptation, and encourage her to fall “head over heels” for the one she’s chosen, if the coach can come up with the likely letter.</p>
<p>My D is being recruited and has had her transcripts and test scores reviewed by coach and adcom, has been told things look good and that she should apply ED. The coach has indicated that she is one of his top choices, but we don’t know if the coach is going to submit a list with more kids on it than he has tips for. D’s scores are not outstanding, but as she has not been told by him now that she needs to get them higher, she is not inclined to retake the tests. I’m wondering if she will be in a mini-competition with other athletes applying for ED in her sport. Should D come out and ask the coach? I thought the student had to submit a full application to get a likely letter–but the preceding posts make it sound like they can come from the coach before the application has undergone full review by adcom. Also, doesn’t the letter come from the adcom? or is it from the coach?</p>
<p>2924SW - You’re right that the likely letter comes from admissions after a complete review of the application. It’s just that the coach has to want the athlete enough to request that letter from admissions, so that’s why people are recommending that an athlete ask the coach if he or she is willing/able to provide a likely letter - it has to start with the coach. Often athletes are in competition with other athletes in the ED process - either in terms of their athletic abilities (e.g. how badly the coach wants them) as well as academically (a great student with good athletic abilities will probably get chosen over a just “good” student with good athletic abilities). When our S was going through this process, we got some very helpful advice here to go ahead and ask the very clear and direct questions of the coach in order to figure out as clearly as possible where our S stood in the competition. For example in one case, our S was about to commit ED to one Ivy and was asked to come to a late official visit at another. When he asked the coach at the second school more about his possibilities there, the coach was open in saying that he had one spot left on his roster and our S was one of 5 recruits being brought in for that official visit. Based on that info, S decided to go ED to the first school that he also loved rather than risk that admission based on 1/5 odds at the second school. If we’re talking about an Ivy in your child’s case, it’s appropriate to ask if a likely letter is a possibility - saying something like you know how competitive admissions are and she’s hesitant to close off other options by applying ED without more information about what her real chances are at the ED school. Good luck and enjoy this exciting process!</p>
<p>I think a likely letter is possible, but coach doesn’t speak in specific terms like “likely letter”, What he said is that if D gets everything early, before the Nov 1 deadline, it’s possible to get “something in writing back from Admissions” before the actual response deadline (about Dec 15 I think). My kiddo is ranked very highly athletically, but would only get into fav school with coach tip. Actually, had she spent her time studying instead of on her sport I’m convinced she’d do just fine and get into a good school (somewhere) (tho who knows if it would be this one) without a coach (she did very well on those SATs kids take for Johns Hopkins programs etc in 7th grade—much better than on SATs now). We are where we are. At this point, heading into senior year, we have a topranked athlete, with so-so scores and good grades. I was fretting about test scores to friend who is somewhat knowledgeable about these things, she has D who went to top LAC in same sport, who said “Face it, your D is not getting in based on her SAT scores.”</p>
<p>Like others, I would encourage asking the coach how many tips he/she has and whether they will be using one on your child.</p>
<p>Being encouraged to apply is very different from being told a tip will be used for your athlete. </p>
<p>I believe some coaches may, either intentionally or unintentionally, lead kids to believe they will be using a tip on them when in fact they will not. </p>
<p>The school may still be worth pursuing if the athlete has to gain admission on his/her own without the aid of a tip, but I would have reservations about a coach who couldn’t be up front about exactly where a child stands.</p>
<p>Runners2–
Following up on your post above, what is your read on this situation for two students, same sport, same gender, applying ED: Student #1 --good student who is a great athlete— versus student # 2—a great student (but who will also need a tip) who is a very, very good but not great athlete. Does adcom make the call choosing between the two? I know the coach ranks them, and I’m assuming he would prefer student #1. But, dioes adcom say–hey, be happy with #2. Let’s say Student #1 has SATs slightly above 600, and student # 2 has SATs above 700 to complete this hypothetical scenario. Does it depend on ADcom 's realtionship with this particular coach/ I guess this gets back to how long his list is, and whether it exceeds the number of slots. Adcom has said D’s stuff looks good, provided it is followed up with good app, no problems etc (the standard caveats).</p>
<p>To 2924- I’d be worried how the coach phrased his/her response: 'possible to “get something in writing…” ’ </p>
<p>The wording sounds very non-commital, but the coach may be concerned about other recruits or your D’s transcript in regards to the adcom.</p>
<p>Agree with riverrunner- your daughter needs to choose one school based on your current info, commit and show the love, for the dance to move forward. Good luck!</p>
<p>GWN, thanks for the link to the AI description. This would definitely explain the reaction S is getting when D-III football coaches find out he has a 230.</p>
<p>Hi 2924 - I guess in the scenario you described above, one factor that the coach and admissions dept considers is the pool of recruits the coach has. In other words, if coach has a pool of highly academically qualified recruits, then he may be able to take a “good” student who is a “great” athlete. However, if he’s already got a number of just “good” students, he may not have room for another and may only be able to get in a “great” student. In our case, our S was told by several coaches that he was their #1 academic recruit (though not their #1 athletic recruit, I assume) implying that they are keeping track of both issues and probably need to balance them. The admissions dept may also be balancing the needs of the different coaches at the school, so one sport that brings in great students may balance the needs of another sport who needs to bring in athletes with somewhat lower academic credentials. So the short answer is that I think it’s almost impossible to know what any particular coach or admin dept is balancing. Asking about the possibility of a likely letter often pushes the coach to give you a little more info. about where your athlete stands in the recruiting pool. Good luck with this crazy process!</p>
<p>Well two girls in my school are already in at Brown amd Columbia for field hockey and lacrosse and our senior school year hasnt even started yet! I guess if they want you they let you know.</p>
<p>What you are saying gels with what our H.S. coach said to me—that at least at this particular college, they “kind of average” the academic standing of the recruits. I am fairly certain our kid is top of athletic list, or second from top perhaps, but am equally certain our kid is not at top of academic list. Our kid has already told coach the school is #1 pick–kid was asked that right out of the box, in beginning of correspondence with coach, and responded with I love you best. Coach is emphasizing things like essays now.</p>
<p>Bottom line–should we come right out and ask how many other recruits he is supporting for ED? I would feel awkward, because I feel like he would have told us that information if he wanted us to know that. He has made plenty of noise about wanting D, but . . . . I guess I am like all parents, loking for certainly before jumping into the abyss without a safety net. Kid loves the school and does not really worry about such stuff. Rolls with the punches.</p>
<p>I don’t think you need to ask about any other kids because the information won’t really do you any good. Recruiting is such a fluid game - you can move up and down the coaches list depending on any number of factors - and from day to day. Just find out if the coach is willing and able to offer your D a likely letter before the ED Nov 1 deadline.</p>
<p>I agree with 3Xboys - it’s not so much an issue of how many other athletes are being supported as much as it is whether the coach is willing/able to pursue a likely letter for your athlete. If he is, great news and you don’t care how many other athletes are getting likelies. If he can’t give a likely, then you have to consider that either coach or admissions are not willing to pull out all the stops for your athlete and you may want to keep other schools in consideration.</p>
<p>It’s kind of like musical chairs. For the Ivies, the athletes seems to circulate among their favorites during official visits, and when the music stops (on Nov 1, because the presence of EA/ED schools forces the RD’s to issue likely letters at that time), everyone is looking for a seat. The good news for many sports is, there aren’t all that many players compared to the number of chairs, so the real trick is figuring out where you want to be and the feeling being mutual. If you can find your chair before the end of October, sit down and smile.</p>
<p>You’ll have to be blunt with me if my analogies are wearing thin…</p>
<p>S is starting his 2nd year at HYP. The way that it worked for his sport was that the coach expressed interest…the school he chose had to be his 1st choice before the coach would support him to admissions. He had the choice between 2 of the 3 but had to make a decision prior to the application being submitted for the likely letter. Don’t know how all coaches and all sports work, but the coaches wanted a commitment from him first. He was not the top recruit so I am not sure what kind of recruitment practices happen for the very top guys. S had rank of #1 in high school of 325 and ACT of 34. He also could have gotten in on his own merit…although I am not sure that he would have gotten in without support…too many kids have similar stats.<br>
Also…you have to ask the coach the tough questions after the official visit. I know kids who went on official visits and did not get the coach’s support. Good Luck!!</p>