<p>^^^completely concur with foto2gem. In my D’s case, the coach stated that, should she accept the likely letter, she would be accepted in EA and would be held to the EA commitment. Sounded a little scary, but worked wonderfully well. I’ve heard rumors of athletes who received more than one likely letter, but I would have to believe it would be for the #1 Ivy recruit in a sport in a given year. From my limited experience, what foto describes is correct for most Ivy-recruited athletes.</p>
<p>The first communication from the coach months ago asked if she was prepared to make this school her #1 chioce (like Fotogem’s kid), D said yes, and coach has been encouraging ever since, said to get grades/scores to him in Aug (done), and full application in as early as possible. Said once adcom could reveiw full app, an answer would be forthcoming, but that were limits as to how early they can issue such an “answer”, in essence (I gather) an early early decisions. I’m guessing he;s talking about a likely letter–but hasn’t used that term–is this what you think? D should ask. D is ranked #1 in country for her sport /age so she is pretty desirable to a coach. But, as parents of athletes, we all know these things can change in twinkling of eye.</p>
<p>Pinning down that timing issue a little more, does the conversation about likely letters come after official visit (which will be early Oct) or can/should it occur before then? Coach had asked for all the academic info by summer and had it when the most recent conversations took place. That’s when the official visit offer was extended.</p>
<p>PS I have ordered the recommended Chris Lincoln book.</p>
<p>Is it importatnt to go on offifcial visit? We’ve been to the school before, hadn’t even considered an “official visit”. What would the reason be for it? Does it factor into decision making? I don’t see why, assuming kid is happy with commitment they are making—is an “official visit” any differnt from a visit where you take the tour, talk to the coach, look around campus/geta feel, meeting some of the team members (kid already knows kids there)?</p>
<p>In our case S was offered official visits at all 3 schools. He attended 3 weekends in a row finishing by late Sept. Visit #1 resulted in coach telling him that he definitely wanted him…now the coach still had 2 more weeks of recruits coming to visit. Visit #2 resulted in coach being a little more vague. S liked both schools but definitely felt more comfortable with communication style of coach #1. Went to visit #3 where at the end, the coach basically said that he had his recruiting class. S then decided to commit to school #1. A week or so later #2 coach called and was upset that S did not commit there. I told him that his coaching staff’s communication style left us wondering whether he was supporting him to admissions and we also felt that we needed a sure thing. We also began to realize that as long as he felt at home at the schools that we were possible “splitting hairs” and didn’t want to end up empty-handed at the end. Our decision ended up being the perfect fit for him. He has had a great year and absolutely loves it. I hope that these details help you in some way. It isn’t easy.</p>
<p>It’s nice to hear about these happy endings! I can’t wait for the next few months to be over. It’s exhausting!</p>
<p>After rereading my post…I had to smile…it was a good problem to have…:)</p>
<p>2924 - I would guess the coach is probably talking about a likely letter as well, but it would be appropriate for your daughter to clarify that. The Ivy league has very specific language about what likely letters are and what they mean, so it’s important to know if the coach/school is able to make that commitment to your D. If your D has already been to the campus and met with the team and the coaches, an official visit may not be critical for her. For our son, he didn’t have that level of certainty about which school he would choose prior to the official visits, so doing several visits to different schools was really helpful in the decision making process. He stayed overnight with the team, participated in practices, met with coaches, attended classes, etc. and felt like he got a real feeling for what it would be like to be a student athlete at each school. </p>
<p>Treemaven - our son’s conversations about likely letters happened after official visits, perhaps because he wasn’t ready to make that commitment to a school before the official visits. But maybe others who did earlier unofficial visits may have had earlier conversations about likely letters?? Not sure about that – good luck!</p>
<p>Our S had the conversation about likely letters after all his official visits - until that time neither he nor the coaches had a clear picture of what their respective choices were. Coaches definitely give their top kids the earliest official visit slots. Once S came home from each visit, he wrote an email to the coach thanking him and detailing some of the things he liked at the school and team and how/why he felt it could be a great fit for him. When the coaches letter came back, indicating his interest level after the visit, S then replied with an email asking if the coach thought he would be able to offer him a likely letter. Some coaches said yes right away (to these schools S reiterated how much he liked the school but indicated he was not ready to make a commitment right then). Some coaches were more vague, which we (incorrectly as it turned out) assumed as a lower level of interest. None of them said they would not ask for a letter for him. They know exactly what these letters mean. </p>
<p>I would be a bit concerned about this coach’s vague language about the timing of the process. Once the November 1 deadline has passed, you lose a lot of leverage so it is crucial that you try to get the letter before then.</p>
<p>That said, I know someone from last year who was promised a likely letter and did not get it before the November 1 deadline…the mom was a tad frantic but the letter indeed arrived about a week, a heart-pounding week, later.</p>
<p>Re: official visits. They are nothing like regular visits and I think absolutely central to help the child make a choice that others have the luxury - well, maybe not luxury! - of waiting another seven months to make. My S really did not have a preference among his top five schools until he went on the officials and things sorted themselves out relatively easily after the visits.</p>
<p>For our daughter, the official visit was also a key consideration. You basically live with the team for 48 hours, go to all meals, classes, practice (non-playing), parties, sleep in the dorms, etc. It is a terrific and special way to get to know the team members, their chemistry and the school since you are basically living like a student there, but not part of a something more manufactured like pre-frosh days.</p>
<p>Her situation was similar to others, after officials, she was 80% interested in A but still 20% thinking about B. A was pushing her for an answer but B wouldn’t be able to respond for a few weeks since they were holding out for a response from another recruit. She basically went through decision process weighing the pros and cons and decided to go for A, worried a little about the musical chair analogy. Her coach had 4 slots but only 2 likelies to give and she asked for one and received it. It’s been all gravy since. If she was far more interested in B, it would have been a much more difficult decision for her, luckily it worked out.</p>
<p>The whole process is nerve wracking, but basically it’s a great problem to have, most of these kids are looking at schools that they may not have had the opportunity without athletics. We bite nails in October, another group does Dec 15 and most people May 1st.</p>
<p>^^^I agree with markcc’s analysis and will add:</p>
<p>Official visit is not necessary (but is highly desirable) from the student’s point of view, if the kid already feels like a particular school is his first choice, based on prior visits. </p>
<p>There is another side to this, however. My daughter thought the official was also about the current team getting a good look at her. Team dynamics and fit are so important, and I believe the coaches receive input from current athletes about prospective athletes. </p>
<p>Now that she’s part of the team, D feels very invested in the selection process. She’ll be hosting athletes and the captain and coaches will discuss prospects with the current team. Obviously top recruits may be able to skip this part, but it could come down to choosing between someone the current team has met and likes, versus someone who didn’t make a visit. </p>
<p>That said, D could not make all visits she was invited on, and was still offered likelies from a couple of schools, sight unseen. There is no “rule” about this, but you get the idea.</p>
<p>What if a student is not ready to commit to a specific program? </p>
<p>The reaction S2 has gotten from coaches is that when they ask about his academic stats, they tell him he is likely to be accepted based on grades/scores (I take this with a grain of salt, though he has strong numbers), and they then (enthusiastically) say to send a highlight DVD. I can understand a coach not giving a tip without some sort of commitment by the student, but if a student intends to play but wants to wait for the academic side of admissions at all his schools to shake out, is that the kiss of death? Or does the recruiting for this kind of kid start after acceptance?</p>
<p>Markcc—how does a caoch have 4 tips and 2 likelies? Does that mean he “supports” 4 kids, gives adcom a list of 4 kids he wants (after prelim screening in august), and then the likelies means he “really” supports the kids–does he say to adcom I’m giving support to 4 kids out of which I can get 2 likelies—
I thought a tip was support that worked, got the kid in, hence a likely
Or does it just mean he’ll argue for the kid to admisstions
Or is this a question of wording, and it varies
We and coach have never used the word tip or likely—he uses the phrase “support [D’s] application”</p>
<p>Re visits–coach invited D for visit in first letter to her, but she has so much on her plate we never considered taking a weekend to do it --she needs her weekends for other things like school, practice, and working on apps to get them in early–and probably just having down time and fun
She has a clear first choice too. But does it help a kid get in, if they know their first choice already?</p>
<p>2924 the key time for recruiting is September and October. It’s hard to believe, but everything is going to happen in the blink of an eye. </p>
<p>If your child needs to make some official visits to be sure about her first choice, and to clearly indicate to the coach her intentions, this has to be her first priority in September.</p>
<p>She should have her essays and applications finished before schools starts. She should take a calendar to a meeting with her high school coach now, and figure out when the best times to travel would be to minimize the impact on the rest of the team, to choose which competitions she might have to miss, and to stay competitive herself for important end-of-season competitions. I hope this won’t sound harsh, but having “down time and fun” is going to have to wait until this is all settled, which might be around November 1st. </p>
<p>You may not agree with the above, but the cascade of choices and opportunities linked to this decision can’t be understated.</p>
<p>A tip is not a likely. The coach wants as many good athletes to apply as possible. He may tell lots of kids he will be asking admissions to take them, but only the ones he says he wants a likely letter for will be considered for one, and it will be out of his hands as to whether admissions grants it. A tip is worth nothing, and a likely letter is golden.</p>
<p>Followup to riverrunner–
Interesting—I hadn’t thought about the opinion of team members as a factor of admission, as to how much they “like” the applicant. Sounds kind of like a sorority. And if the applicant is really good at the sport, there could be jealousy—though in fact I never see that. In my kid’s sport, the more proficient kids know each other or at least know of each anyway, and have probably met. And with regard to this year’s freshmen, some will definitely know my D. Hmmmm maybe we should rethink this visit thing if it would help application. Really just a matter of time availability, and I assumed it made no differnce in application success.</p>
<p>Riverrunner–I definitely did not understand the jargon–thank you for explaining difference between tip and likely letter. So if I have been told by knowledgeable parent that this coach gets “x” “picks” (my friend’s term), she probably meant “x” Likely letters as opposed to tips (wouldn’t you think)? She also explained it as he gets “x” kids. I thought a tip was like a likely letter, and number of tips equalled likely letters, kind of the “end result” ie=–I guess I didn’t really fathom that his tip list is longer than the number of Likely requests he has in his quiver. So why would it help for us to ask for likely letter? If this is the only thing that means something, wouldn’t coach automatically ask for likely letter for his top tips? Coach knows this is D’s top choice—made it very clear his support is based on that, has told kid to apply ED, has told kid ADcom thinks she should apply ED. This is so confusing, and I guess when he said D hould get application in early he means really early ---- early Sept.</p>
<p>2924 - You need to ask for a “likely letter” because it’s the only thing that means anything. A coach’s “support”, “tip”, “pick” are general terms that vary in meaning across schools, sports, and coaches. You can’t count on those labels for anything specific. A “likely letter” means that athlete’s application has been reviewed by admissions and that admissions is committing to admit that applicant to the school, barring the standard caveats for all admissions (e.g. suddenly having failing grades, being expelled, etc.). There is official language about likely letters specific to the Ivy league you can probably find if you google it - I don’t have the link offhand. Riverrunner’s advice is right on target - our son now hosts recruits and coaches do ask team members’ impressions of the recruits. I doubt those impressions would be a critical factor outweighing athletic ability, but between 2 comparable recruits, the one that is viewed as more coachable and a better teammate might get the nod. Hard to ever know how much each individual factor weighs.</p>
<p>Another followup to the runners–do you think that athletes applying ED are in fact on a rolling admissions schedule? It sure sounds like it, with the emphasis on getting application in early. Otherwise why would it matter, except to get the whole thing over with. If Adcom is making deicions on athletes early, with limited slots for sport, as applications come in, in effect kid has advantage over other ED applicants who get applications in later (tho before Nov 1), assuming kid has coach’s support, and particularly if kid has coach asking for likely letter. Do you agree with the rolling admissions analogy? We’ve been told to get stuff in early by coach–but I didn’t realize significance except that it would be nice to have things settled early (Ahhh . . even if it means a rejection and then we still have a chance for ED application elsewhere)—do you get early rejections as well as early early acceptances (in form of likely letters)> I didn’t think of early application as competitive advantage over other ED applicants, but it must be or how esle can they be issuing likelies early. Coach told us we would be getting “confirmation” early if everything went well…</p>
<p>The point of it is to know which school you apply to early, not to get competitive advantage over other ED applicants. If you get a liekly in hand, you know you’re in. If you go and apply to one school ED and don’t get a likely in hand, you’re screwed if they reject you. By then the other schools recruiting classes will be full and you’re left with nothing.</p>
<p>Someone correct me if I’m wrong.</p>
<p>To Crazy, I’m not understanding you. If you know where you want to apply already, and have been told to apply early, and you do apply early (and you have to “apply” to get a likely letter), if you don’t get one within a reasonable amount of time, wouldn’t it mean you probably are not getting in? or definitely not getting in? If the coach says hey, I pushed for you but you didn’t get the letter, from what I’ve heard in above posts, that translates into a rejection . If it is before Nov 1st, wouldn’t you be best off changing your app to RD so you get second bite at that apple, or just w/drawing ed and applying elsewhere ed if there was another school that suiited you? Perhaps I am hopelessly confused. But am trying to figure out how to navigate and not get screwed as you suggest in your post. I don’t know if you can withdraw ed once you submit that supplement. But it would seem fruitless to pursue an application for which you have no chance of success, if it is still before Nov 1.</p>