<p>If all those male coaches really believe in the benefits of competitive sports, they should be first in line promoting its equitable extension to the MAJORITY of the college population, rather than attempting to defend their little fiefdoms. </p>
<p>Instead, many tend to take a shortsighted view, and end up shooting themselves in the foot.</p>
<p>And if the men don't like it, they can go to Wabash.</p>
<p>Everything usually comes down to money. Many men's programs have been actively fundraising for years--even before T9. The women seem reluctant to get their hands dirty.</p>
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3togo, at what point will people realize that football should not count because it IS available to both men and women. It's just that not many women try. The OPPORTUNITY is there and that's what needs to be provided.
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I'm not sure I follow how you are defining opportunity ... I see two possibilities. First choice, since schools have a football team and women can try out for that team and that counts as equal opportunity? Or second choice, women have not asked for their own football team and that should not be held against the men's team (and the count of athletes)? Is your objection one of these two or is it another one?</p>
<p>Mini, Coaches have a job description they have to follow or they lose their job.</p>
<p>Their job description usually includes promotion of intercollegiate sport. It usually doesn't include defending their personal turf by putting down the extension of the very services they offer to the majority of the college population.</p>
<p>First and foremost, they are educators. From what I've seen as representing their views on this forum, they haven't been doing a very good job.</p>
<p>"And your attitude toward athletics is upsetting."</p>
<p>ses, I look forward to your explanation here. It should be a good laugh.</p>
<p>As far as grades go, I only have limited stats on that. I know of at least one mens sport that was shut down over the summer due to grades. Eastern Illinois wrestling was cut after it's APR was too low again. The ironic thing about that is they had one who was an Academic All-American on the team!</p>
<p>Money? Why should that be included? How much of the money that is spent on athletics is money that comes directly from the Federal government? Most of it has to be raised somehow!</p>
<p>At the college level, it comes down to winning or losing for the most part.</p>
<p>I checked on club sports at D-1 schools and there is no rule against having both a D-1 team and a club team in the same sport. Wisconsin has both in ice hockey, tennis, volleyball and other sports.</p>
<p>Having a club team in the same sport as an existing varsity team is a school policy issue. I know of some schools which will not allow a club team under those circumstances, others which enthusiastically endorse and support the club team. I know of no school which limits club sports in an area the school has no varsity participation.</p>
<p>To SES:</p>
<p>Describing a Division I football player as "coddled" only shows your narrow-mindedness. How may 20 year olds do you know who could do a physically demancding job for at least 20 hours per week, year round, with substantial travel obligations and still keep up their academics?</p>
<p>merrymom try this
[<em>quote] cut and paste your text [</em>/quote]</p>
<p>take out the underscore inside the above brackets</p>
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Would someone be so kind to explain how to copy another posters' comment and display it in grey, instead of only with quotations? Thanks!
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<p>Instant grey box</p>
<p>Ay UW the club teams are completely outside the Athletic Dept. They are funded by and report to the recreation centers adminstration.</p>
<p><a href="http://recsports.wisc.edu/clubs.html%5B/url%5D">http://recsports.wisc.edu/clubs.html</a></p>
<p>SES - you go!!! :) (post #80)</p>
<p>Anyways...............</p>
<p>(Be ready for the next set of changes coming out of the NCAA relating to grades and on-time graduation rates - fun fun - there will be quite a challange for some student athletes to maintain their eligibility. It is going to effect baseball/basketball/football the most - most likely - since they are the bottom three in the pile of academic maintainence issues.)</p>
<p>MerryMom - As far as club sports - recognized by a college - I guess there may be a couple of schools that would not support a club team - where a varsity team exists in that sport - but far and few between. Not all schools feel so threatened to prohibit club sports - Not all club sports are financed by the schools - some do get that benefit - but not all - certainly depends on the school and their policies regarding club sports. For a team to be recognized by a college as an official club sport - there is a process to go thru for this recognition. Hence most schools offer a good variety of club sports - and others don't.</p>
<p>As far as football - which I now get the gist of your post a bit better - I doubt that there are many D1 schools that have club football - or would even consider it (mostly cuz of the expense of it) - and not because they prohibit it - but because of what it takes to creat that type of club sport - so not sure that is a arguable point.</p>
<p>There are D1 schools - for example - that have varsity/club/IM - all 3 - swim programs - for different levels of competitiveness - nothing wrong with that at all - but only the varsity team counts int he NCAA process.</p>
<p>Any college athlete has a full plate - between carrying the minimum amount of credits to maintain full-time status - the practice hours - competing and the travel usually involved - whew - makes me tired just to think about it LOL</p>
<p>Barrons - that is where just about all club sports exist - under the recreation department of a college - unless they have varsity-club status types of sports - like skiing (there are many sports like this) - which is recognized under NCAA - but not snowboarding - which is a club sport only - where it exists..</p>
<p>It wasn't that long ago that women in college varsity sports didn't get athletic scholarships - just the guys could - so again - the NCAA and Title IX have again leveled the playing field and ended the discrimination regarding scholarship monies.</p>
<p>Not possible, Jeepman. Anyone smart will ask each Division 1 and 2 school about a club sport if there is also a Varsity. </p>
<p>Also, don't expect honesty. Attend the team practice and games or meets, and talk with the coach. Find evidence of multiple years of participation - results are usually posted online.</p>
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Grade: Yes, they should be good. But you know what? I bet you more of those DI football players, who are coddled by schools and given special majors to prevent them from being ineligible, are failing than the girls rowing crew.</p>
<p>Money: Contributing? Since when did sports become about money? A college has a budget, and yes it's nice to have a football team that is successful and brings in money from the alumni. But that's EXTRA money. The college doesn't need it to operate.</p>
<p>Winning: Are you really suggesting that the value of a sports team is in whether or not they win more than they lose? Are you insane? One of the big pluses of sports for young people has always been the character development. Winning is nice, but it sure isn't everything.
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<p>The grades thing - Umm, the kids playing football have the equivilent of a full time job going at the same time as a full load of classes. I think that is going to affect your GPA. Most other sports have less time requirements than football, and also have higher GPA's, not a complete answer for the difference, but part of it.</p>
<p>$$$ - Do you know how all those sports get funded? By 'money sports' such as mens football and basketball. Those sports pay for all the other sports at most d1 schools. Now at the Ivies, where they have massive endowments, they could pay for all those sports with or without money sports. However, very few schools are massively in the black. By funding other sports you are offering either more athletic opprotunities to everyone else, which would not be available otherwise, or you are adding a ton of money for other uses by balancing the budget of the athletic department(if you weren't to cut sports). I think that having sports on campus is a very cool thing, and top end athletes make college cooler too. Their existence is very connected to the existence of those stupid horrible football players. <em>sigh</em></p>
<p>And Winning matters, as it affects the $$$, and also, why have a sport that is losing(both literally and in the bank account), when you could replace it with one that helps the school(morale, $$$, and so on).</p>
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Not possible, Jeepman. Anyone smart will ask each Division 1 and 2 school about a club sport if there is also a Varsity. </p>
<p>Also, don't expect honesty. Attend the team practice and games or meets, and talk with the coach. Find evidence of multiple years of participation - results are usually posted online.
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<p>HUH??????? Absolutely no clue what you are talking about..............</p>
<p>BTW it is MOM for MAM not Man :D thank you very much :)</p>
<p>DSC- </p>
<p>The time commitment to football is very similar to the time commitment to other D1 sports. Coaches utilize ALL of the practice time that they are allowed. The only big difference being that football games, like baseball games, last longer than a soccer match.</p>
<p>According to your logic, athletes should not be held to the same standards as other students. We should treat them differently. And that doesn't make sense to me. Collegiate athletes are student-athletes. Notice how student comes first.</p>
<p>Not every offensive lineman has to be holding a 4.0 during the season, but one would hope that he could pull out something better than the minimum 2.0, ESPECIALLY at an elite or top school.</p>
<p>I don't understand why posters continue to single out football as somehow 'harder' than other sports. </p>
<p>Rowing, for instance, practices before the sun comes up every day with regattas almost every week during sprint season that can last all day or even all weekend. With boats having to race not once, but usually twice, if not three times in one day.</p>
<p>No football player will ever be asked to play two games in one day. However in other sports that are race-based or prone to tournaments--soccer, track, swimming, volleyball--athletes are often expected to perform MULTIPLE times in one day, which would pretty much close the gap between the length of a football game and that of other sports' matches.</p>
<p>I don't understand how a D1 athlete in any sport (save maybe golf where the maximum cardio exertion level isn't really that high) could be judged as working harder than any other D1 athlete. And even in golf, the necessary skills are so rare that it's not as though their amazing putt is any less valuable than a great block in football.</p>
<p>As far as money goes, that's unfortunate. But immediate costs (coach's salaries and basic equipment) probably comes from the endowment that runs the school. Other things like new uniforms, plane trips for teams instead of buses, trainers for specific teams instead of the athletic program at large, and other 'fancier' perks are paid for by ticket sales.</p>
<p>Of course this is probably not true at some Big 10 schools who depend on their ticket revenue. But since when is UMichigan considering cutting its football program?</p>
<p>As a rule, not every team in a given league can be a winning team. If there are winner then there MUST be losers. Obviously a program that fails to be at all competitive should be revamped or cut, but most D1 schools with decent recruitment/funding don't have that problem.</p>
<p>Teams have losing seasons, not losing existences.</p>
<p>Football at the D-1 college level is a violent contact sport. If you play on Saturday you are lucky if you can get out of bed on Sunday. Rinse and repeat and by season end it is taking most of the week to recover enough to play Saturday. The season runs from now through January if you are a good team. That's lots of weeks feeling runover by a truck.</p>
<p>I guess SES doesn't wish to respond on why my attitude toward athletics in "upsetting"</p>
<p>In other words, SES likes to make false accusations without any evidence to back it up???</p>
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I'd rather not act like I'm the expert on Title IX
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<p>What's the differences if i write it out or post a link... I don't recall claiming to be an expert on Title IX either just like nobody else has claimed to be.</p>