Hey guys, I’m a sophomore at Penn and I am currently pledging a fraternity. I have been interested in Greek Life since I got to Penn (I really like the idea of brotherhood, parties, a consistent social outlet, etc) but bad grades from engineering my first year prevented me from pledging as a freshman. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize how much harder it would be to rush and pledge as a sophomore, and I ended up getting a bid from one frat that was desperate for numbers (therefore not very popular) and that I wasn’t sure whether I felt at home in. However, I was desperate since I hadn’t really enjoyed social life outside of a fraternity (to make matters worse, my freshman year friends are drifting apart so I’m in desperate need to meet new people), so I accepted the bid. Now a few weeks in, pledging poses a huge threat to my GPA this semester. This is especially bad since I am trying to transfer to CAS at the end of this semester (I realized engineering isn’t for me) and they want to see that I performed well in my current classes. I’d also like to raise my cumulative GPA (currently at a 2.85) in the interest of getting internships, research positions, etc, which is more important now since I am a sophomore. I am considering dropping pledging to save my grades, but I do not like the idea of going back to the non Greek life which has been pretty unsatisfying for me (not having a stable social outlet tends to take its toll on academics, too). Meeting people through clubs is possible but I’ve found that it’s kind of hard to build strong friendships that way, especially now that most people have found a niche. I also always thought that I was meant to go Greek and I would really enjoy the perks (social and otherwise) that come with it, whereas the idea of getting by without it, while fine for some people, isn’t all that attractive to me. This is an incredibly tough decision so any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I’m not in college, but bare with me.
Some rhetorical questions for you to think about:
Do you enjoy the other people in the fraternity? If not, I’d drop it.
If you do enjoy the people, are there options in the frat such as group studying which you could utilize to raise your grades? If not, perhaps a way to better manage your time? You would likely be engaging in social activities regardless of whether or not you stay in the frat; how much time would un-pledging really give you?
If you feel out of place in the frat and are pledging just to find people you can call friends, I would drop it. I have read the switching colleges is very difficult at UPenn, and ability to do so could depend on your GPA, so if you had to potentially pick between CAS but not in a frat or engineering and in a frat, which would you choose?
Just to get some insight on the social situation at UPenn, is it basically “if you don’t join a fraternity, you can’t realistically party”?
@Phillyboy I am wondering why you are still pledging? When is initiation? Greek organizations at Penn were required to complete pledging and initiate new members by two weeks ago when you left for spring break.
“The University of Pennsylvania requires that all new member education programs be completed within six (6) weeks, or as the University begins spring break.” http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/ofsl/joining_process.php
The purpose for this rule is to avoid the issue that you are now facing. They do not want pledging to conflict with studying and grades, so they want it to be done early in the semester.
@Much2learn: not a single fraternity at Penn follows that. With that being said, most pledge programs have mandatory study hours and actually do care about balancing fraternity and school.
@Keasbey Nights “@Much2learn: not a single fraternity at Penn follows that. With that being said, most pledge programs have mandatory study hours and actually do care about balancing fraternity and school.”
I don’t believe that the fraternities at Penn are all breaking the rules and nothing is being done about it. Frats are getting too much bad press right now and they need to be behaving themselves. It is possible that one or two of them are doing this, but not all 20.
I’m a current fraternity member at Penn. Trust me on this one.
@keasbey nights “I’m a current fraternity member at Penn. Trust me on this one.”
The Penn administration has been fairly strict on frats this year.
It seems like a not following the rules has a lot more downside risk than the benefit of stretching pledging out for a few extra weeks. Why do you suppose they think that doing this is worth the risk of getting caught? It seems like a bad bet to me.
@Much2learn As another student at Penn, I can also say that I don’t know of a fraternity that follows that rule. As far as the downside risk, you make it seem as if the university is going after these fraternities that extend pledging. If that were the case, then yes, almost every fraternity would be getting in trouble with Penn.
I have to say that I have heard a lot of positive things about greek life at Penn overall, and students seem to be happy with their experience.
I understand that it is generally known, except, apparently, by the Vice Provost, lol, that many of the fraternities persist in some level of hazing, however it seems to be less risky than in the past. She apparently follows a strict “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Hahahahaha. Perhaps the extended pledging period is in that category.
Do you feel like your fraternity experience is positive overall?
Hey @ErenYeager
I don’t dislike anyone in the fraternity. Most of them are great guys. I just don’t feel like I fit in that strongly…I think I would prefer a typical state school type frat where most people are American (like me), a little jocky, and really chill and down to Earth. There are frats at Penn that are more like what I’m looking for, but unfortunately I wasn’t able to secure a bid as a sophomore from a few such fraternities I was looking at. If I had to describe the frat I’m in now, I’d say it’s very diverse and there’s a lot of bookwormy type people, specifically a lot of engineers, many of whom are Asian. They are chill guys, but just not exactly my type of people.
As far as studying options, there are mandatory study hours every week, but these are only for two hours on Tuesdays. That hasn’t made up for the many hours we’ve had to dedicate to pledge events. And you’re right, I would probably still be socializing at least a little bit if I dropped, but I wouldn’t let that interfere with my grades, whereas with pledging there are social events (and other, less enjoyable events) which are mandatory that I attend.
You’re right in that switching colleges is difficult and GPA is important (though not as important as success in coursework relevant to the school/intended major and your reason for wanting to transfer). I feel like it would be pretty irresponsible for me to throw my academic interests under the bus just so that I could be in a fraternity, so I wouldn’t want to be in a fraternity if it meant I had to stay in engineering.
That being said, UPenn seems to be dominated by Greek Life. Non Greeks seem to get by, but a lot of the time that is due to the fact that they find a niche in their minority group (which I don’t have being a white American) or they just aren’t as interested in socializing. I am a social person and going out, partying, and seeing other people is important to me, and I also really value the idea of brotherhood and a sense of belonging. If I don’t have that, I am prone to depression (I’ve suffered mild depression over the past year or so without a sense of belonging anywhere). For someone like me, not being in Greek Life just seems to limit your social reach so much, and while some people can push through and keep a blind eye, I have found it to be very difficult. So basically, it seems like I have to choose between academics and happiness in my college career (probably an oversimplification), which is a pretty difficult decision to make, especially since unhappiness tends to take its toll on academics as I have found.
Hey @Much2learn
You are right, that is the official University policy. Unfortunately, a lot of fraternities (mine included) tend to ignore this rule and just keep the pledge process under wraps for several weeks or more after Spring Break. I know some people who weren’t initiated into their fraternities until close to the end of the semester. A lot of fraternities find that it takes more time in order to form camaraderie among the pledge class (through pledge events) and prepare them for initiation.
@phillyboy01 “So basically, it seems like I have to choose between academics and happiness in my college career (probably an oversimplification), which is a pretty difficult decision to make, especially since unhappiness tends to take its toll on academics as I have found.”
I am wondering if it is possible that you can have both, if you can struggle through this term. If you have good social intelligence, you may well be able to form symbiotic relationships with academic kids. You teach them how to dress, behave, and talk to girls without looking like an idiot, and they help you improve your grades. Instead of being frustrated by your differences, use your different strengths to support each other.
In the short run, perhaps you can talk to one of your fraternity brothers about making a plan to work through this. If they know you are struggling, they may let you out of some activities and help you make a plan to work through this. Pledges that are struggling academically are bad for the fraternity too. In a lot of cases, they would work to help you get through this. That is what brotherhood is about.
@Much2learn I’d say that sounds about right. Moreover, it is well-known to students which fraternities haze hard and which don’t, so it’s not like anything is altogether unexpected by students — i.e. you won’t rush Alpha Beta Gamma if you don’t want a 40-hour-per-week pledge process. Some students want that, or at least think they want that.
As for the extended education process, I can speak on behalf of my own fraternity. There simply isn’t enough time to teach all of the lessons we want to teach in six weeks. We need eight, and this is corroborated by the national fraternity office.
My experience has been tremendously positive, even during my pledge semester.
@Phillyboy01 I am wondering how you are doing, and what next steps you have decided on? Hang in there!
@Keasbey Nights “I can speak on behalf of my own fraternity. There simply isn’t enough time to teach all of the lessons we want to teach in six weeks. We need eight, and this is corroborated by the national fraternity office.”
I can understand that. I just hope that in doing so you are cognizant of the potential adverse impact that an extended pledge period could have, especially on any pledges who are already somewhat stretched academically. Perhaps you could consider telling your pledges that anyone who is in a situation similar to @Phillyboy01 should proactively come to you so that you can work together to manage and monitor the problem to avoid forcing them to make a difficult choice between completing the pledging period, or doing significant damage to their academic record. JMHO
@Much2learn I am doing okay. I decided to drop, focus on academics, and see what my options in the fall might be. Thanks for your concern and advice.
I am sorry that happened. If that is what you have to do to save your grades, I think you made the right decision.
My impression is that most students are happy with Greek life on campus, but it certainly is not perfect. In an ideal world, the fraternities would work with the Vice Provost’s office to be sure students were academically supported, if they needed to extend pledging for extra weeks.
Sadly, it sounds like Vice Provost McCoullum and her office of fraternity life are also letting students like you down. There is no excuse for them to not know about this type of issue and work to support students, when it is broadly known on campus. Hopefully Provost Price will get put someone in that position who will represent Penn and its values more favorably.