@MassDaD68 Is there any way your child can take a gap year? Would he be open to applying to good schools further afield, like those in the midwest and south?
If you haven’t already seen this, go to pages 180-182 on this thread:
Some really good schools giving some really good merit
This.
Not trying to get too far OT, but so many of these posts here and everywhere on CC have turned college into trade school and expect some financial ROI on what I believe should be four years of improving the life of the mind not chasing a job. I’ve posted to this effect over the years and always get responses like “only the rich can afford this attitude,” etc.
You don’t have to be rich to value education for its own sake, and this discussion has shown that you can find a good education at various price points and via various routes. But we seem frantic that our children come right out of college with a certain level of salary that:
And we don’t want to pay for anything “less” than that? Why is that? Is the main goal of education a certain paycheck, a certain lifestyle? Dear God, I hope not. We always told our son that our last financial gift to him would be his undergraduate education with no debt. But a gift has no strings. Study whatever you want. Pursue your passions. Feed your mind. Enjoy every minute of your education. THAT is the ROI, not the compensation level or marketability of whatever work he chooses to pursue. For years, he was hell bent on film school at NYU or USC, both very expensive, and understood that he might live in a box under the freeway as a result, but that was fine with him – and us. He understood that no further funds were coming from us nor could he expect to land on our couch again. He’d have to make his way on his own as @redpoodles posted:
No regrets on either side. Maybe the difference is that we have the guts to let him flail and perhaps fail on his way to finding his way, absolutely certain that he will. Could life be tough for him? Absolutely. Get a helmet.
The original issue posted here is the level of discomfort about being full pay when that might affect the OP’s future financial security. The OP was looking for examples of parents who pay full freight and whether or not those who do have any regrets. @woods1234: What this meandering conversation has pointed out to me is that most people who pay full freight have no regrets but decided that full freight was justified in some way based on the kid and, often, on the potential earnings payback of the degree. You haven’t said where you fall on the expectations spectrum, just that you are uneasy about what those tuition bills may do to your financial security. So, you have two decisions: 1) determine what you can really afford (not just pay for) and 2) determine if you have some type of payback expectations for your child’s education that would further restrict what you’re willing to pay for. A lot of different values have been expressed here but, ultimately, only you can decide what works for your family. You’ve been silent for a while; I’m interested if any of this has helped you in any way or if you have anything more to add to the conversation.
OP here. I’ve been trying to find a good time to chime in on my thoughts, but the thread just kept growing and growing and turning and turning…
Anyway, the thread has helped me greatly in finding out what others have gone through and what are the factors that made them do what they do. (This was the original main objective of the thread from my perspective) Some conclusions that I can reach (most of these, I already sort of “knew”, but was reaffirmed)
Some surprising things and follow-up topics that I find interesting:
I said I would work longer. That does not mean I will add X years at the job I have now. While that is great if I can, if need be, I’ll scale back, move to a low cost area and get a job there. It will only pay 1/3 of what I make now, but will do.
My goal is retiring at 67. That also makes a big difference. If the goal is 62, you def need more $.
@midwest67 My point is that the schools advertise the student debit acquired to get the degree, which is always low because the students don’t have access to borrow much of the costs. The majority of the costs falls on the parent’s, and that debit is never advertised. Can you imagine seeing those stats? 60% of families end up with 200k in debit? That type of statistic would be an eye opener.
@MassDaD68 - you are not alone. Our D has a 4.0UW and a 4.7W, 33act lots of EC’s (including Student Body President). She was offered 25k from a small school in OR, but the remaining costs to use would still be over 35k/yr. She was accepted to Boston College Honors - but did not receive an invitation for their scholarship. Instead they offered her 6k/yr in combined work study/student loans, and we are suppose to come up with the remaining! She is quite discouraged that she has the grads and stats to get into some great top schools, that we simply can’t afford. I try to explain that she is fortunate enough to have the grades to be considered, which has allowed for the 25k offered in OR. She also applied to a few other schools that have full scholarships but getting them seems as likely as winning the lottery.
Having a lot of money provides a lot of options that aren’t available to people without. What is reality for some people is difficult to understand by others in very different situations. Nothing I could say or explain would likely change the view of someone who has been here almost 6 years and has close to 3k posts. God bless.
The only people naïve enough to believe money doesn’t matter have never had to support themselves, much less a family.
@woods1234 I’ve been lurking on this thread watching it twist and turn. Last year when I was in your shoes, I wore the carpet in my bedroom thin from pacing, pacing. Yes pay, it’s worth it. No that’s way too much $$! How can you say no if there is there’s a way (equity loan say)? Night after night, pacing. I couldn’t let it go. I still pace thinking about it sometimes, but since D did not choose the full-pay option at least we are not financially feeling too much of a strain.
“The majority of the costs falls on the parent’s, and that debit is never advertised. Can you imagine seeing those stats? 60% of families end up with 200k in debit? That type of statistic would be an eye opener.”
Remember Marty O’Malley who was briefly a D candidate for president?
He ran up $339k (!!!) in parent loans to send one kid to private Georgetown and a second kid to OOS College of Charleston. But his two kids presumably would be reported as having graduated debt free.
“She was accepted to Boston College Honors - but did not receive an invitation for their scholarship. Instead they offered her 6k/yr in combined work study/student loans, and we are suppose to come up with the remaining! She is quite discouraged that she has the grads and stats to get into some great top schools, that we simply can’t afford.”
Your daughter is a member of a HUGE club. Fact is that there are many many thousands of kids (just like O’Malley’s Gtown daughter) who are smart enough to get into a top 25 school. But who are not nearly smart and accomplished enough to get the tiny amount of merit money available at those schools.
3.5 million kids graduate U.S. high school every year. So there’s 175,000 kids in the top 5% and 70,000 kids in the top 2%. There’s 37,000 U.S. high schools. Which means there’s 37,000 student body presidents and 37,000 valedictorians.
So while you can certainly get the net price number down into the $30s with merit money, that is not going to happen in the top 25 (which is basically a need-only zone). If you need a private school in the $30s, it won’t be BC or Gtown (top 25). It will be Gonzaga or maybe Fordham. Which are really fine schools fyi.
@blossom I might have my kids contact you in a few years for jobs. They can think, speak, and write very well. They have a great work ethic and absolutely no sense on entitlement. They would be very happy to live in flyover land. 
Thank you for this thread. It is good to see different opinions and different perspectives. Ultimately it is very personal decision for every family. The kids will be all right – if they have parents who care about them so much that they go on CC, they must have been raised right!!
Best of luck!!
Macmiracle- it’s all about the attitude. And some shrewd planning- if a kid is majoring in graphic design, make sure and take the programming sequence. If a kid is majoring in Chinese History, make sure and take a class on macroeconomics and the history of trade policy.
But this isn’t rocket science. Your knowledge of the language and culture of China is highly relevant if you can demonstrate that you can apply it to a real life situation.
Do you know how many billions of dollars US companies have spent (with no return) trying to get a foothold in China? Understanding the history, political system, etc. would have been really valuable!
post #341.
Let’s not forget that in the entire world colleges ARE trade schools. And these include colleges that teach Medieval art, or French literature, or Classical Latin etc. Of course the difference with the US is that those students don’t have luxury dorms, fancy cafeteria and gyms, expensive activities and hobbies, trips, clubs, computer and media rooms, study abroad, and a huge staff of professional helpers, administrators, advisors, counsellors etc. who coddle and babysit them throughout the entire four (sometimes 5-6) college years. It blows my mind that only here in the US, the only country in the world with astronomical college costs, more privileged people can advocate for the less privileged to spend a huge sum they cannot afford to buy this luxury lifestyle for their kids, which also includes their education for a fraction of this cost. No one should ever be pressed or shamed into making this painful and personal choice. And no one deserves to be shamed and ridiculed for making it a priority to make a living to support them and their families
It also amazes me that many parents believe that their children are too young to declare a major, or even organize (or inconvenience) themselves enough to graduate within 4 years with any major, yet others think that these young students are already fully mature and capable to decide whether it’s fine with them to live in a box under the freeway many years from now, with zero support from parents, not even a coach to sleep on. Wow! Everyone who wants to avoid nasty surprises should read post #254 and other posts by @blossom – she nails it, as always
@blossom Does it ever go the other way? Companies that are snobbish about only hiring certain “cool” kids the way the kids only want to work in the “cool” jobs?
Very rarely can someone on a budget get the exact school he wants - size, prestige, location, sport teams, weather, m/f ratio…something has to give. For us, the thing that couldn’t give was budget. That was firm.
My kids didn’t have nearly the stats your son has, MassDad, but they both found schools they love within their budgets. Under budget. For both, the first thing to give was size of the school. If your son is firm on the size, then it might be the location that gives. If he would live in Appleton or Beloit, he’d come in well under budget.
If the majority of debt is never advertised, how would you know it is anywhere near that high?
For the Kiplinger top 100 private universities, average debt at graduation ranges from about $9K (Princeton) to about $41K (Baylor). For the Kiplinger top 100 public colleges, it ranges from about $8K (CUNY) to about $38K (Pittsburgh). I assume this is what’s being called the “advertised” debt. You can find these numbers, representing cumulative principal borrowed “from any loan program”, in the Common Data Set section H5(a).
The CDS, in section H5(e), also reports “private alternative loans made by a bank or lender”. For Princeton 2015-16, that figure is $18,909. For Pittsburgh 2015-16, it is $39,264. The CDS language refers to “private loans that your institution is aware of”. So I suppose there could be many private parent loans, not reflected in these figures, that the colleges aren’t reporting because they don’t even have the data. But if the H5(a) averages already include known private loans, and the known private loans are a fairly representative sample of all private loans, I don’t see how the private parent debt (at least for the hundreds of Kiplinger “best value” schools) could be nearly that high ($200K / 60%).
@tk21769 I think the difference in what you cite and the $200K figure is attributable to the horrible student loan options out there. I think many parents would rather access the house equity than take on a private student loan with onerous terms and rates. To me, a private student loan is the last option and should only be done as a last resort. I suspect if you drilled down into lesser colleges in the CDS you would find larger amounts of Plus loans being taken out. The sad reality is that some people do not have the equity or the options to obtain loans other than these private student loans. There is plenty of data on why these loans are dangerous. I suspect that the families sending their kids to a top 100 private school have other finance options than a private parent loan. This thread alone helps indicate that many families have the funds to be full pay. This zero debt family has a huge effect on the overall average. Just ask your child what a zero test score does to his grade.
@woods1234 Thanks for being good matured on the twists and turns of the thread you started. I am guilty of one of these turns and will back away. this is obviously a great topic as your thread has grown to 24 pages and is still quite active.
I like your summary and think you have the correct take away. Much of this stuff all boils down to personal preference and personal tolerance for costs and debt amounts. It does help to visit CC and banter this about to help formulate thoughts and aid in decisions.
Best of luck to you. I am sure your child will do very well.
Just to put some context around my comments, I grew up very poor, went to beauty school out of high school, attended college later on scholarship, and worked all the way through. My husband was a scholarship kid, too. I posted on another thread that college was magical for me – because I never thought I’d get to go. I treasured every minute I was there. That experience taught me that education was the most important thing in the world, and I’d save very cent and then spend every cent to make sure my kid got that opportunity, too. Yes, we’ve been fortunate and are comfortable now, but no angst over being full-pay and no expectations for any payback on that education.
@ChoatieMom I thought your son was at a military academy? Therefore, not full pay at a private college?