Would be helpful to know the acceptance rates for a 35 and for a 34 and for a 33. I would expect the acceptance rate for a 35 is closer to 28% than is a 33. So if your kid has a 35, moving up to a 36 would likely be a lot less significant in terms of admission chances than moving from a 33 or a 34 to a 36. And is it easier to increase your score if you start with a 25 or 28 by 3 points than it is if you start with a 32 or 33?
not talking in Elite schools, but moving your score from a 25 to 30 does open up more opportunities and possibly merit. This is even true for many flagship publics. i think putting $$ into test prep depends on multiple factors.
“There has to be a balance between talents and interests lie and planning for the future.”
@AroundHere I see this argument all the time, and, as explained by Blossom, this is a false dichotomy. My oldest, for example, graduated from a top college within four years with two unrelated majors (including one in psychology), one minor, a very prestigious certificate for undergrads from affiliated grad school, and 2-yr experience as a co-chair of a very large and busy non-profit organization run by students. While doing all these, she took courses in European art and Russian literature amongst other things just for fun and to explore her horizons. And she did three professional summer internships and had a few job offers after the 3rd years. But, she only had enough time left to eat, exercise, and sleep during all four college years. Please, understand that I used my kid as a familiar example. She is not at all special - there are many others like her.
Hi @woods1234 thanks for starting this very interesting thread
To answer some of your questions:
In 2014 our EFC was 59K (gulp) with some dependence on retirement assets that don’t look like retirement (outside the 401K). Two employed parents lower AGI than you, early fifties, under performing retirement accounts
We didn’t save for kid from birth because, in part, a grandparent said they were doing that.
Played catching later contributing forty K to each of two kids 529.
Gave kid 2014 a budget of 25000 per year after scholarships and estimated one quarter of 529 K (a little north of 12000 per year there). As u can see that amount is less than half of e f c and it felt bad to tell the truth
Because we are crazy we said if kid got into Alma mater we would pay …and trust me that would have been 59 K per year. Kid was denied there. We did not allow ED application for a couple reasons not all financial
Choice of major did not matter although specialty schools were out because we wanted kid to be able to change majors without changing schools. Anything with BA or BS in front of it. Kid wanted one school with remaining cost over forty thousand a year even after 15 per year scholarship. We said no to the big envelope but child had been warned in advance of the budget.
On to kid two…in high school now. 40 invested in 529 for this one hoping that will gain some. We will take 25000 per year budget and adjust for inflation for this kid. Even Steven works for our family I am too soft hearted to try to make a guess who could benefit more from an expensive school or who might have worked harder to earn it
Hope this info helps I know everyone else’s comments have helped me
@PragmaticMom - perspective is an interesting thing. I would say from mine that the “judgement” on CC is more towards those of us who are NOT focused on ROI - as if we are fools with too much money and no sense.
That someone who yesterday made a judgmental post about families focused on ROI liked your post is very ironic.
@mycupoftea you mentioned that your D went to a “top school”. I think what you major in is less important coming from a top school. A while back I saw a list of recent Stanford grads and what they majored in and what kinds of jobs they got. People who majored in American Studies for example (I forget the exact majors) got consulting jobs at top firms. Employers love Stanford grads. I don’t know if people who major in American Studies at a no-name school have as many opportunites when they graduate. I could be wrong, but I could be right, lol.
@woods1234 We have three kids and their college experience is spread out over a 14 year period. Each of our kids got a merit scholarship at the undergraduate school they attended. They had plenty of options but none chose the highest price option. We told them that we would have funds to help with graduate school or that any remaining money would be theirs at graduation. We did tell each of them if they got into an Ivy level school that we would pay full price if they chose to attend.
Child one finished undergrad and went on to a fully funded graduate school program. Left after getting the MSEE and went to industry where he is doing well.
Child two started at school with merit and transferred to a more highly ranked school as a mid year junior and then had to spend two years full freight at his new school. We paid for the Masters too, and he is now in a fully funded top Ph.D. program. His future is bright. No regrets.
Child three is currently a sophomore. Very grateful that he has a substantial merit award.
- What is/was your income? Really has varied. We were probably like you when we started but with the downturn my H started his own business and I have alternated between full and part time. Income way down. If we didn't have college savings we would likely qualify for aid.
- What geographic location do you live in? Northeast also. Very high cost of living.
- What is your retirement funding situation? We both have substantial retirement accounts but are older than you. At your age we were likely in a similar place to you. Our home will be paid off when our youngest graduates from school.
- Were there any special circumstances that allowed you to decide to go full-pay at $50K+/year? (you are expecting a large inheritance down the line, a rich uncle partly funded, etc) Yes - our self discipline. We put education as a top priority and saved from the day our first was born. It is the only way we could be full pay now. The funds had 18 years to grow.
- Any specific regrets/advice? None. Everything we did to enable them to have a choice of schools and graduate debt free was worth it.
I don’t understand the posts about test prep. I thought most people on CC believed standardized test scores reflect “natural” ability. If study can improve them, why are so many families against sending their kids to less expensive colleges with kids whose scores may not be as high? It seems like they could save a ton of money that way.
@citymama9 You are neither right or wrong - we are even 
In D’s case, her 2nd major was definitely very important for her internships and her job (perhaps not the major itself, but the associated coursework, technical skills and knowledge). But her psychology major probably made her much more desirable, and helped her develop social and interviewing skills. I am sure that graduating cum laude did not hurt her chances either, but I did not mention her grades in the first post because it was not relevant for the point I tried to make, that one can easily get diverse classical education without compromising his/her professional education. OTOH, her friend, who graduated from the same college with the same two majors, was hired by a top consulting firm, and in his case the second major was not required.
@austinmshauri Sorry, but I don’t understand you post either. Of course standardized tests reflect natural ability, but they also require certain knowledge, as well as test taking skills, both of which can be improved through studying and practicing (where tutoring can be very helpful, though self-studying also helps). But I have not seen any posters ruling out certain colleges based on lower test scores. The common reasons for trying to raise test scores are merit scholarship, or getting into more competitive schools that can be chosen based on a number of various reasons. In our case, both kids looked for the highest ranking programs in their respective fields of interest. They did not particularly care about college ranking, or students test scores, or prestige (I think that each one of them may have applied to one Ivy, but it was not their top choice). Does this answer your question?
I think test prep matters, but far less than many people seem to think(maybe 1-2 points on the ACT composite).
^^ depends on the kid. Mine went to the same HS, and have similar intelligence and work ethic. However, one is a natural test taker and did not need much prep, whereas the second one is a horrible test take, and practiced very hard to improve test scores A LOT.
We had similar experience going to free testing events like @saillakeerie @Twicer.
For us, it has been no tutoring, no review, no repeat test, and no college counsellor. We have been saving money on full pay 
“no review, no repeat test” - this is crazy unless the child is a genius
@mycupoftea, I have seen posters rule out colleges based on test scores. The thread about the reduction of the number of merit awards at a SE college is a good example. Some posters believe the policy will draw kids with lower (sub 30 ACT) scores and seem to think that will result in both the loss of higher stats kids to OOS schools and the decline of the university. One parent even wanted to know if higher stats kids could be separated from the rest or if they’d have to mingle with the “general population.” But if higher stats kids are improving their own scores by studying, they have to know kids with lower scores can too. I don’t understand why families would rule out affordable schools based on scores, especially when parents want to save money.
Does this thread shift its emphasis to how to prep for the standard tests so parents can worry about how to full pay for more expensive schools? I’d like to see the standard tests de-emphasized, non-standardized (to be totally different each time given) or eliminated. This is because test-preparing isn’t fair to most students and schools. I may have a relevant experience.
Decades ago for a training program we had to take an entrance exam of unfamiliar format to many of my friends. We got in and were placed in the slowest class due to our lower scores. This was a rolling program that tested weekly. Many of my friends got placed in the fastest class the next week. It turned out that many of the week one fast class students knew the entrance exam format very well long ago. Of course some of my friends stayed slow because people are different.
So for college applications standard tests have to be viewed together with an applicant’s other activities and performances, if used at all. But standard tests are here to stay as they create jobs (too much money involved).
IMO, paying for test-prep beyond a $20 study guide is a waste of money.
I am a full-pay parent, so if I thought prep was useful, I could pay for it. My total test-prep expenses for D’s ACT and SAT were $20 each, and she did well enough on each one that she only took each one once.
“IMO, paying for test-prep beyond a $20 study guide is a waste of money.”
My kid’s ACT was stuck at 33 after doing the free test prep offered through the high school.
Spent the time and money for prep over the summer and the score went up to 35. Kid now has two $50k/full tuition scholarships in hand that likely would have been half tuition schollies or less with a 33. I wish my stock investments performed like that.
Of course the 35 also helped the kid get admitted into some tempting swanky full pay colleges, so maybe the 33 would have been cheaper in the long run…
YMMV.
But was it the money, or the time that made the difference? In other words, did the test prep actually teach something new, or did they provide enough structure and discipline to coax the kids into preparing properly? My guess is the latter.
In terms of outcomes, my D did equally well without test prep and she is heading to UChicago this fall.
My point is intended not for families that can pay for test prep, but rather those that cannot. There are real advantages that high income families have (better schools, ability to pay for tutors, etc). But test prep, IMO, is not one of them.