To send SAT scores or not, with great ACT

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>Hi, newbie here...first post, though I have been lurking a while. </p>

<p>I am considering applying SCEA to Yale this year, but not sure how my SAT 1 scores will look like on the app, and if I should consider submitting these, given that my ACT scores are 36 composite, 11 writing.</p>

<p>My SAT I scores are: Reading 730, Math 740, Writing 750 (total 2220). Took the SAT after my ACT results and did not really put much into it, and it shows!</p>

<p>My conundrum is: Do I submit SAT scores to Yale in addition to ACT scores, or not. Yale wants ACT with writing or SAT I plus two subject SATs, but if I submit my SAT II scores in Chem and Math II, then Yale will get all my SAT scores, including SAT I and Literature. Do I lose anything by not submitting any SATs?</p>

<p>My other stats, for context:
* SAT II: Math II-800, Chem-790, Lit-720
* Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 4.0
* Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): 1 out of 525
* AP scores: Chem - 5, Calc AB - 5, Bio - 5, Psych - 5
* Senior Year Course Load: AP English, AP Physics C, AP Calc BC, AP World Hist, a couple other non AP classes<br>
* Extracurriculars: Varsity hockey, quiz bowl and science oly (both captain), lots of volunteer work, founder of community service club, job shadowing, summer internship one year, summer research another year, school newspaper, lit magazine, student government</p>

<p>Given this data, anyone want to chance me for Yale SCEA? Oh, BTW, no hooks, S. Asian female, large suburban, generally competitive public school.</p>

<p>Thanks for taking the time to read and respond!</p>

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<p>I would send the ACT only. </p>

<p>You do have two excellent SAT II scores, but here’s some context: Your 800 in Math II puts you in the 90th percentile. That means 10% of all students in the Class of 08 who took the Math II got an 800. And your 790 in Chem puts you in the 92nd percentile. Again, these are great scores, but probably not all that uncommon in the Yale applicant pool, and not great enough to warrant disclosing your SAT I score, which is good, but weak compared to your gorgeous ACT. </p>

<p><a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat_subject_tests_percentile_ranks_2008.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board;

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<p>wjb, thanks for your insight. After thinking about what you wrote, and looking at the percentile chart, I agree it would be better not to submit any SAT scores.</p>

<p>A related question to all: What percentage of candidates that Yale admitted did not submit any SATs and were admitted solely on the basis of the ACT results?</p>

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<p>Don’t send the SAT.</p>

5

<p>Yeah no need to send it. It won’t hurt, but it is superfluous. </p>

<p>Just curious, why did you take the SAT I after a perfect score on the ACT anyway?</p>

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<p>@booyaksha - Oh, I was already registered for the test, so I went ahead…</p>

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<p>I have a somewhat different viewpoint: If Yale allows score choice, I’d suggest sending all 3 of your SAT II scores. They do provide additional information beyond the ACT, and 800/790/720 is not bad at all. If they request all of your standardized test scores, then I think you definitely ought to send all of your SAT scores, as well as the ACT. While your SAT I scores won’t help, I don’t think they would significantly hurt your chances, either. If do they ask for all the scores and you don’t supply them, and if your guidance counselor or some other recommender mentions the 800/790, that could actually hurt (since Yale admissions would know that you had un-sent scores).</p>

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<p>As I read Yale’s CDS, looks like about 8%. (92% submitted some form of SAT – the report doesn’t distinguish between SAT I and II.)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.yale.edu/oir/cds.pdf[/url]”>http://www.yale.edu/oir/cds.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>You actually need to take the SAT I if you want to qualify for a National Merit Scholarship. That is why folks with great ACT scores still take the SAT. They often, as my son did, take them late in Fall senior year so that they will not have to be included in the applications. If good, they can send, if bad, they don’t have to…</p>

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<p>QM: Yale is one of the colleges that is not allowing Score Choice.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the additional info, wjb. I just found Yale’s directions regarding submission of scores at:
[Instructions</a> for Reporting Your Scores | Application to Yale College | Freshmen | Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.yale.edu/admit/freshmen/application/score_reporting.html]Instructions”>http://www.yale.edu/admit/freshmen/application/score_reporting.html)</p>

<p>In all honesty, these directions seem a little weird to me. They want all of the SAT scores, sent officially by CB, if an applicant is submitting the SAT; but they will take a single official ACT record (although they want the applicant to self-report any other ACT scores). They do give a financial explanation for this; but I think that the cost of sending additional ACT scores would be fairly small in the context of all of the costs of applying to college and paying for it. (And presumably ACT has some fee waiver, for anyone who really can’t afford to have the scores sent?)</p>

<p>Back to the OP’s question: unless you are from the regions of the country where students often take the ACT only, the admissions committee will probably assume that you did take the SAT I also. Depending on the patterns at your high school and their familiarity with your school, they may also assume that you took the SAT II. They can be pretty sure that you did not score 2400, since you haven’t sent the score(s). So they will probably have a guess that affects them, at least subliminally, even if the guess is purely subconscious. How much will they like you? How did you do on the PSAT? Better or worse than 222? Did you qualify for National Merit Semi-finalist standing in your state?</p>

<p>Despite the remarks about the percentiles of 800 Math II and 790 Chemistry, those are quite good scores. </p>

<p>But <strong>disclaimer</strong> I don’t really know anything about their procedures or preferences. I’d suggest consulting with your guidance counselor, and anyone from your high school who has been successful with applications in earlier years.</p>

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<p>I see your point, QM. It’s not an absolute slam dunk either way. I don’t think, though, that it’s unusual for a kid with a 36 ACT to opt out of SAT I. Less common for a 36 ACT to opt out of SAT IIs, since so many selective schools require them in addition to ACT. Geography may affect whether the college thinks the student is trying to game the system, although supposedly there is no longer any institutional bias against ACT, no matter what part of the country the applicant is from. I still would not send the SATs were I the OP, but of course, we can’t know what goes on at the admissions table.</p>

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<p>WIMom - I remember my parents telling me to take the SAT with National Merit in mind. The SAT IIs were taken for schools that do allow score choice, unlike Yale which does not.</p>

<p>QuantMech - I am from the midwest of the country. ACT does seem more popular around here. Most of my friends at my school have taken or are taking the SAT I and some SAT IIs. My PSAT was 225, and that should put me into the National Merit Semifinalist pool this September. Our state’s cutoff was around 212 or 213 last year, if I remember correctly. I would assume that this cutoff will remain the same or move by one or two points in either direction this September.</p>

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<p>In the past, a PSAT score of 225 has been enough for National Merit Semifinalist status, no matter where you are located (even for the American boarding schools, which often have or tie for the highest cut-off). So that’s good. And your SAT I score is sufficiently high to corroborate it, so you are set. </p>

<p>If you list NMSF status on your application, the admissions committee members would know based on your state that your PSAT score was at least 212 (say), which projects to an SAT I total that is greater than or equal to 2120–but they wouldn’t know how much higher. </p>

<p>Does your high school frequently send students to Yale? Do you have any idea how past students who have gone to Yale have done on the SAT II’s?</p>

<p>Really, I think either option (submit SAT scores, or not) would work about equally well for you. I do think your SAT II’s are high enough that they would be worth submitting, but I re-emphasize that I don’t know how the Admissions Office really views files.</p>

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<p>Same kind of issue at our house. My D is very likely going to send only her ACT, which was 35. </p>

<p>I think Yale is going to see many similar cases this year, and here’s why. My D took the SAT and ACT without any prep - what she called a diagnostic test - back when everyone believed score choice was available at all colleges. She retook the ACT because she liked it better than the SAT. Her SAT is not bad (2120), but her MathII score is weak (650), and she doesn’t really want Yale to see that. By rejecting score choice, Yale forces students like her to hide their experimental efforts that were based on an expectation of score choice. This means Yale will never see her 780 in Lit and her 750 in US History, which is a little painful. But it is what it is. And if lots of applicants send only the ACT scores, there’s far less chance of some kind of subtle bias against them for not submitting SATs.</p>

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<p>Fauxmom,
Will you D’s score qualify for any National Merit, if so does she plan on listing it as an award? If this is done, then this is where I think Yale may say, well Where iare your SAT scores? For students like your D, this is where it appears they are losing out on their Great SAT II and Good SAT I’s scores and possible Natl Commended/Merit awards discloure, not that the later really matters to YALE.</p>

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<p>In our state, she’ll probably qualify only for commended, and that doesn’t require a confirming SAT score. I think it’s pretty logical for Yale to assume that almost everyone who submits only ACT scores has also taken SAT’s, or at least SAT II’s. After all, many of them will be applying to places that require SAT II’s on top of the ACT. So anybody who decides to submit just the ACT has to come to terms with this feeling that Yale will suspect there are more tests out there. My personal hunch is that they really don’t care all that much. They have all sittings of the ACT to look at, and all the subscores to mull over. They just don’t have that much time to ponder the reasons for there not being more numbers on the application. If a student has a really strong ACT score, Yale will understand why the applicant rests on that score, I think. (I hope!)</p>

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<p>You lose nothing, submit the ACT. Yale does not express preference to either test. Your ACT’s are higher than SAT’s. QuantMech strikes me as trying to play mind games with the admissions officers. I suggest keeping it simple :)</p>

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<p>Ha, ha, ImmanuelKant: I love mind games with admissions officers! Especially ones I can’t see and have never met! And especially mind games by proxy! :slight_smile: </p>

<p>But seriously, I don’t think that admissions officers read too fast to be affected by subliminal impressions. While Yale expresses no preference between the SAT and ACT, I think that would depend on the particular admissions officer reading the file, and on the circumstances of the applicant. Some of us (non-admissions officers) do prefer one test or the other. </p>

<p>And by the way, if you really are ImmanuelKant, why aren’t your sentences 500 words of densely written German, with at least six dependent clauses in each? (The irony of ImmanuelKant calling for keeping it simple just struck me.)</p>

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<p>Oh, QuantMech, I can see you’ve suffered like I have. </p>

<p>Ich bin ein berliner? I’m out of german, sorry.</p>