To tell or not to tell, that is the question

Parents Forum Learning Differences and Challenges - LD, ADHD
61

<p>Although each case is different, I disagree generally with nobreaks’ recommendation. As I reported probably earlier in this thread, my son disclosed and my daughter did not. My son had to disclose as he had a number of unusual circumstances related to the LD – like a program of partial homeschooling in HS. I would recommend against disclosing. My take from talking to admissions folks a few years ago was that although the “overcoming adversity” story is nice, they are probably wary that kids with LDs won’t be able to perform at the elite level in their elite schools and that the risk likely outweighs the wonderfulness of the story. Overcoming adversity might sell well at some schools but would likely bomb at others. Generally, because there is a plethora of outstanding applicants, adcom committee members are looking for reasons to reject. “I know she did well at a pretty good suburban high school, but will her learning disabilities cause her to be overwhelmed when the competition and workload are ratcheted way up here at Highly Self-Impressed Elite University?”</p>

<p>My general instinct is not to disclose until after admission and then meet with the Disabilities Services Office before choosing a school to get some real commitments about what they will be able to do for your kid – if he/she needs extra time or other accommodations – before he/she accepts. Some schools were forthcoming and clear. Others had to be pulled into saying anything and we could sense that every step of the way would be a struggle.</p>

62

<p>dont-- just because you have it doesnt mean anything about your grades. i know a straight A student who has ADHD</p>

63

<p>I’m a senior with mild enough ADD-inattentive, which was diagnosed winter of junior year, and I’m about to apply to UChicago. I have good grades (math grades went way up when I started on medication) and great SATs (being able to finish the section definitely helps!). I don’t plan to disclose – things improved when I was diagnosed, but it’s not a dramatic enough leap that my diagnosis is a necessary part of the story I’m presenting, and I don’t want them to think that I’m a) asking for pity in any way or b) can’t do the work. On the other hand, I have a friend with more severe ADD who I imagine will be disclosing, because it’s affected her schoolwork far more.</p>

<p>I’d advise not putting it in your app if you think you can write a compelling essay without mentioning it. I asked an admissions counselor at one of the schools I toured (small but selective LAC) and she said it was totally fine to mention, but I don’t know if a big school like Cornell or Columbia might be different. I just think it might be a slight risk that’s not worth taking?</p>

64

<p>I’m going to muddy the waters further and say that I agree with Shawbridge, Nobreaks AND myself. :slight_smile: Here’s my take. First of all, I was responding specifically to NewYork. NY sounds kind of like my son–high stats, but issues that have shaped who he/she has become. Every single case IS different. In DSs case, disclosing has without a doubt been a primary reason he has been so successful outside of school. If you truly have the stats/profile to have a reasonable chance at a top uni that, without disclosing, you would not have a prayer of acceptance, disclosing can have a positive influence on decision-makers.</p>

<p>I was probably a bit hasty making a blanket remark that everyone should disclose (if that is what I said or implied–can’t remember). I think it depends on 1) what the disability is (in other words, how easily the disability is accommodated by the prospective school) and 2) how well the student has performed despite it. Though my son’s disabilities are somewhat profound, they are relatively easy for the school to accommodate. Also, while he has a hard time getting work turned in on time and staying organized, he performs very well on standardized tests, is an avid learner, active class participant and brings statistics to a campus that would be welcome (ie: almost perfect CR+M scores in first sitting for SAT I and 6-7 passing AP/IB test scores both his 10th and 11th grade years). </p>

<p>He has also shown extraordinary passion, interest and accomplishments in a half dozen varied subject areas (over two dozen state, national and int’l awards, etc) and brings some substantial scholarship dollars to which ever college he chooses. When you have a student with mostly 4’s on AP’s (because of the essay component), and a relatively low GPA/rank for top schools, but almost perfect SAT IIs on more than a half dozen subject areas (because there is no essay) and tons of awards and accomplishments, in my opinion, you’d better disclose, IMO. Otherwise, the student looks lazy, inconsistent or lopsided–or just downright confusing! </p>

<p>My son is a good writer. His grammar and language skills are superior. But he can’t be rushed. He needs time that writing tests and teachers frequently don’t provide. If colleges are confused or have questions, he’s going into the ? pile. The ? pile is the kiss of death for an LD kid, IMO. We have seen that, time and again–100% of the time, in fact-- his applications go into the immediate !!! pile with his disclosure. Our rule has been, “Leave no holes”. He discloses his disability in most of his essays, in one way or another. It may be a casual reference or a complete breakdown of his problem (in one to two sentences.) But he always makes it clear in at least one essay that he has a disability related to writing. It’s very “this is who I am”. And it is NEVER the sole focus of ANY essay. It’s a part of the story, not THE story. He just talks about how people don’t understand the gulf between what he can say verbally and what he can write, and how he has dealt with that problem all of these years. </p>

<p>DS also has accomplishments that say, “He has a disability, but he can still function at a high level”. Finally, he has attended high-level summer academic programs on scholarship and won awards that let colleges know that he can function away from home.</p>

<p>Now, on the other hand, if DS had emotional issues instead of being his happy-go-lucky self, I probably wouldn’t disclose. I also wouldn’t be allowing my “brilliant child with emotional issues” to apply to pressure-cooker top schools (I don’t understand the logic of that). I also might not disclose if the gulfs between grades and outside-of-class performance are not wide enough to need explanation (it could look like just an excuse). </p>

<p>In the end, DS feels that if a school doesn’t want him as he is, he doesn’t want to be there. Would YOU want to spend four years at a school that would have never accepted you if they had known they were going to have to “put up” with you and whose general impression is that you “tricked them” into accepting you? He has attended summer programs at two of the world’s Top Five uni’s on full scholarship after fully disclosing his limitations. They knew what they were getting themselves into, accepted him and he thrived. Ultimately, that’s the situation he wants to find for college. Without disclosing, it could be an uncomfortable, stressful four years. But, you could luck out and find the perfect fit. As for both of my sons, we will disclose. :)</p>

65

<p>I want to add that, one of these days, I’m going to write an entirely-too-long post dedicated to the importance of sending gifted LD students “off” for summer programs from an early age. DS had to learn to survive away from home in a high pressure academic environment. It didn’t come naturally. It was hard to send my baby who didn’t learn to tie his own shoes until he was eight, and couldn’t sit still long enough to eat, off with total strangers where he not only had to dress himself, but also had to do homework without me sitting beside him or scribing for him. Had he not had those experiences early and often, there is NO WAY he would have been prepared for college, much less top schools. Schools want to know that LD kids can thrive outside of their home support systems. Showing an ability to succeed in an environment similar to the one they would encounter in college is a huge confidence booster for both the college and the student.</p>

66

<p>happykidsmom - I wanted to say thanks and let you know that after much worry and second guessing, we finally arrived at the same conclusion: better to disclose. My son’s GPA lags his 32 ACT, and he has some spottiness in grades. I was shocked last spring to hear an admissions advisor announce at a LAC (a CTCL no less) that while they were understanding of lower test scores than GPA, they viewed the reverse as indicative of a student lacking motivation. That was a wake-up call for us. </p>

<p>My son has just applied ED to his number one choice, with full disclosure handled in the “Additional Information” portion, but in a positive light (strengths and skills he has developed, perspectives for service, etc). So now we are keeping our fingers crossed as we wait to hear. The college was just a bit of a stretch for him (middle ACT 25-75% was 29-32).</p>

<p>Like you, I also realized the importance of sending my son off to summer college programs, where he could live in dorms and experience what that was like - including learning that he could live independently and what it would require of him by way of transitioning. Unfortunately, he forgot to include these on his application.</p>

<p>I think (and hope) that his interview helped - he’s a personable, funny kid who’s clearly comfortable being himself, and articulate. We also visited for an open house weekend, then went all-in for ED. The college is “need sensitive” but I made sure my FA information showed that we could/would pay more than their EFC calculator showed, bringing us well under the average FA package.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, if his application is deferred or denied, we will not know if it was the disabilities, the academic qualifications, or the FA which was the deciding factor. Sigh. </p>

<p>This has been a tough year for him - the deaths of a longtime tutor/mentor and another family friend who was his only grandfather figure, along with having to put his 10-year-old dog to sleep in August after sudden medical problems. I so hope he’s accepted - or at least just deferred to the regular application round. </p>

<p>In the meantime, he thinks I’m crazed because I keep suggesting that he continue to apply to other schools, just in case. I know I can’t protect him from disappointment, but having a Plan B underway may help.</p>

<p>Anyway, that’s our version of the disclose/don’t disclose issue. All in, fingers crossed.</p>

67

<p>When we visited the “Tier 1/Tier 1.5” Midwest LACs, I’d always fit in a sidebar private discussion re: disabilities with both an admissions officer and the student disabilities office. Every school suggested disclosure via the essay. Final-list schools’ designated admin officer all knew DS from personal contacts, and noted to us that he was a strong candidate before applications were sent. What confirmed that consistent advice was a private college counselor’s essay (found on-line) that noted that the successful LD student is another URL to many schools, a desirable candidate, and disclosure helps patch any quirkiness in student’s transcript.</p>

<p>I second the recommendation that LD students do a on-campus “summer experience” away from home to determine whether living on campus hours away from home is a likely “good fit”. DS did so last summer; it was a great learning experience both academically and more importantly, for learning rules/expectations of student life and dorm living.</p>

68

<p>Onesonmom and higgins2013, I’m so glad I came back to check this thread. Making these decisions is SO scary! It’s great to hear everyone’s different opinions. Son finds out his EA decision tomorrow, so no idea whether our gamble will pay off yet. However, my son wouldn’t have done it any other way. He feels too strongly about making sure that the school wants him as he is. After reading a lot of these LD threads, it seems that we are sort of breaking new ground with regard to disclosure to top schools. It will be fascinating to watch the results! So far, my son has over two dozen friends who have been accepted to HYSBPenn. I’m hoping at least a couple of his reach schools will leave some RD space for a high-stat, mediocre grade/rank kid with LD’s. :wink: He is actually quite relaxed about the process because he feels like he could be perfectly happy with his full-ride + Stipends at his Top 75 safety if none of his reaches pan out. Let’s keep in touch and see how this goes. It could be very helpful to future families. </p>

<p>Oh, as for the summer programs, I am SO glad to hear y’all agree on that. I think it is absolutely make-or-break for LD kids. Every time I read about an LD kid who is struggling in college, I want to ask, “Did you have any rigorous academic experience away from home prior to college?” I want to know how kids who were able to pull it off in rigorous programs for 3-6 weeks in the summer are faring. Maybe this time next year, we will be able to provide some hard facts for other families who have prepared their students prior to college as to whether or not success in summer programs leads to greater success in school. That’s the question that will haunt me until next fall. ;)</p>

69

<p>My daughter just applied, and after a lot of debate, we decided not to disclose it. The reason was simple: She has pretty good grades (Mostly B’s, honors and AP classes) and stellar SAT scores (2050). We figured that, if she disclosed the ADHD, the schools would (correctly) deduce that she had gotten extra time on the SAT – which would lower the value of the SAT scores. In fact, my daughter really only needed extra time on the writing session, so I didn’t want them to think she’d only done well on the other sections (She got a 740 verbal, and she got similar scores on practice tests which she took in regulation time) because of the extra time. She has, so far, gotten into every school to which she has applied, including getting scholarship offers from two. She hasn’t heard from the heavy hitters, which will tell her in February, but I honestly feel that, if she doesn’t get into a really competitive school, it is because it wouldn’t be a good fit for her. She attends a hugely competitive high school, and she has stressed for four years due to her learning disability. I want her to attend a decent school where she can do well and not have a ton of anxiety as she has in high school.</p>

<p>Oh, and second (or third) the summer program idea: Daughter did two summer programs at colleges last summer (2 weeks at University of Arizona through the USDA and a one-week German program at Millersville University) which were both incredibly helpful. Btw, if anyone is interested in either of these, they were very economical choices compared to a lot of summer college programs. The USDA program was an agricultural program sponsored by the USDA through various universities across the country (Google: USDA APHIS ag discovery), and it was FREE if you were accepted (which was based on recommendation letters and an essay, not grades). The Millersville program was a language immersion program for kids who had at least two years of French, Spanish, or German, and it was $500. Many of the programs my friends’ kids attended were thousands of dollars.</p>

70

<p>I am very concerned about my very intelligent son getting into a good college. He does not have the grades or test scores that most of you report. When I read comments like “He has decent, but far from perfect, testing (over a dozen AP’s, but only four 5’s, mostly 4’s and two or three 3’s).” on CC, I wonder if I am in an alternate universe. I say: “Count your blessings” to all you overly stressed parents.</p>

71

<p>Wantmylifeback, I understand your frustration. What you have to remember is that every student’s school environment and experience is different, and students are compared to other students in their schools more than with students in other places. My son not only has a severe LD that impacts his grades and test scores, but he is in a class with six Perfect 36 students–two of those perfect ACT scores were earned in 10th grade. :wink: DS is one of 19-20 NMF in his class. DS has over a dozen AP’s, but so do quite a few of his classmates, most of whom have higher scores than he does because he presumably scores lower on AP essays (His six SAT IIs with essays are almost perfect or perfect). 12-15 of his classmates were accepted EA to Top 10 schools and have received likely letters from others. So, if your son’s class profile doesn’t resemble my son’s class profile, 1) BE GRATEFUL and 2) realize that your son will not be “competing” against my son or his classmates for admission. Your son’s achievements will be compared to those of his classmates, as well as the information on his school’s profile that outlines what was available to him in terms of advanced classes, extracurriculars, etc.</p>

<p>As for being overly stressed. I think I’m just the opposite and have reflected that in my prior statements. The main reason I am more relaxed is because DS is relaxed. He has a superior situation in his “safety” school (which is also near or at the top of his “favorites” list) where he knows that he could be very happy for the next four years. He wants to be at a school where they want him for who he is, LD and all. He feels that his LD is a boon to his creativity and innovative thinking, and he wants to be somewhere where his ability to think and dream on a grand scale will be appreciated as much as his (in)ability to write quickly and efficiently. DS is an excellent writer and has excellent language skills. He is simply slow to process from head to hand and writes Dyslexically, which requires a lot of tedious editing. Basically, he needs a secretary. :wink: He believes that he has found a good situation at the first school that accepted him. If he gets accepted to other schools and finds it there, too, he will have some tough decisions to make. </p>

<p>Every LD student is different, wants different things out of their college experience and demonstrates their intelligence in different ways. I don’t know if your son is a junior or senior. But if he can demonstrate that his less than perfect grades and test scores are not indicative of his abilities to excel in college, and he can “fill in the holes” for the colleges he applies to, he will be fine. DS is not in the Top 10% of his class. He has nowhere near the best test scores in his class. Yet, he has done exceptionally well in scholarship competitions and admittance to prestigious programs. The somewhat excessive testing in AP and SAT II was mainly to show schools what he was capable of doing that was not reflected in his transcript. Good luck to your son! Feel free to PM me if you have questions you don’t wish to post here. :)</p>

72

<p>Alex23, your daughter is a great example of someone whose situation was different than my son’s, and chose to handle it differently. This thread has some great information in it. I hope others will share their stories, too. And, you are right about the summer programs. They don’t have to be expensive to prepare your LD student well for college. In many cases, it’s not about what they learn in the actual classwork time as much as it is what they learn outside of class that helps them the most as they transition to college and beyond. Most LD kids who are applying to Top 200 colleges aren’t in need of classroom instruction so much as they are life skill/executive function instruction. To be able to work on those skills early on and without having to worry about how their class performance will affect their GPA is a gift.</p>

73

<p>Since I wrote the post that follows in Word first, I know that it may be the longest post ever in the history of CC. However, I wanted to give the information that I came here looking for last fall in the hopes of helping other Gifted LD students reach their full potential in high school, college and beyond. Please feel free to move on if you aren’t interested in this much detail. ;)</p>

<p>I wanted to follow up on this thread and post my son’s admissions results to, hopefully, provide some context for those who are considering disclosing their disabilities as he did.
To review, DS is Dysgraphic/ADD with a significant Processing Disorder. He is highly intelligent and tests well on multiple choice exams, though his writing disabilities result in significantly reduced scores on tests where writing is a component, i.e. AP’s (mostly 4s, with a few 5s), SAT and ACT w/writing.</p>

<p>SAT: 800M, 800CR, 690W (Essay: 9)
ACT: 35. (Essay: 9)
GPA: 3.7 (lots of B’s but no C’s, D’s or F’s). 4.18 Weighted
Class Rank: 61/485 Weighted
Mostly AP/IB classes since 9th grade
NMF, AP Scholar w/Distinction (10th grade), National AP Scholar (11th grade), No IB Diploma (but took 6 IB classes)
Lots of additional state and national championships and awards</p>

<p>Accepted: Brown (his 1st choice Ivy, mainly because they are so LD-Friendly), Duke, UVA, Bama (Presidential/Honors/CBHP), Boston University (Presidential/Honors)
Waitlisted: Amherst, Harvard
Rejected: Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT</p>

<p>I am positive that at every school he applied to, the disclosure of his disability had AN effect on his overall application. Good or Bad? Who knows what it was, from school to school. DS had an extraordinary number of national awards in several different subject areas. I am certain that caught AOs attention. But, note the following:</p>

<p>SAT under the magical 2300 mark.
Relatively low GPA (especially for Top 25 schools).
Not even in the Top 10% of the class.
Mostly 4s on APs.</p>

<p>It seems clear to me that, in my son’s particular situation, disclosing his disabilities helped explain some of the lower scores/GPA/class rank issue that might have otherwise knocked him out of the running for top schools.</p>

<p>A few notes for LD students/parents:

  1. Participate in sleep-away summer ACADEMIC programs. It helps students learn new coping skills in academic settings without the additional stress of transcripts that matter. It also proves to AOs that the student can function at a high level away from home, Mom, Dad, etc. Many have generous scholarship programs if finances are a problem (DS won full scholarships to participate in summer academic programs at University of Denver, Phillips Exeter, our state flagship, Cambridge—UK through OxBridge and Yale. There are other programs that offer generous scholarships, as well).</p>

<p>2) Ask/Bargain/Beg/Fight for higher grades IF the student has earned them through hard work AND can prove proficiency in the subject area. There are SO many teachers out there who do not believe that 504 accommodations are “fair” and reflect their opinions when grades are reported. Don’t let yourself/your child be cheated out of opportunities to succeed at the level they would be capable of performing to if they weren’t held back by stigma. DS was repeatedly told by AP teachers (in science, his specialty, in particular) that he wasn’t ready for AP work. So, he signed up for AP tests without taking the classes, didn’t even study for the AP tests, and used the AP tests as placement tests. If he scored a 3, he took the class the next year (what was the teacher going to say? He’d already passed the test without taking their <em>#%&</em> class). If he made a 4-5 on the test, he didn’t waste his time battling them the next year. When a 10th grader passes 5 APs—two of the hardest, Chem and Physics, without taking the classes—it becomes much more difficult for discriminatory teachers to argue that the student isn’t capable.</p>

<p>3) START EARLY!!! If you’re reading this, you’re probably late getting started. Enter contests. Win awards. Build a resume’. Resume’s are more important for LD students than others, I believe. LD students have to prove themselves and their abilities much more clearly than other students do. DS began entering science fairs in third grade. He also performed on stage in highly competitive roles, played competitive tennis, served as VP and President of his school council and won awards in social studies and the arts before he graduated from elementary school. By sixth grade when he began applying for scholarships to competitive summer programs, he had a strong list of credentials to bolster his less than perfect grades. To be clear, though, these weren’t things he did (or that I MADE him do) to build a resume’. Instead, they were things he really loved doing that eventually ended up on a resume’. I never, ever made DS participate in any activity he wasn’t interested in. That would have been disastrous! But I certainly facilitated his participation in anything outside the classroom that built confidence, skills and helped him find his passions.</p>

<p>Sorry this is embarrassingly long. I don’t mean to pontificate. Instead, I’m trying to give some concrete ideas and information on exactly what DS did along the way to prepare for the college/college application process and why we felt that disclosing was the best route FOR HIM. I’m happy to answer any questions, though I probably won’t be checking this thread all that often anymore. So PM me if I’m MIA. :)</p>

74

<p>happykidsmom, fabulous news.</p>

75

<p>Thanks, Shawbridge! You have been SO helpful throughout the process. You are appreciated. I hope that other students/parents will check in and let us know about their results. This thread is one of the most-read threads in the LD section, and rightly so. The more varied the responses, the more helpful the thread, in my opinion. :)</p>

76

<p>Sorry cant read all.</p>

<p>DD wanted to disclose his aspiness because it explained much of his history and why little things to others were big to him. Learning to make and keep friends is huge to an aspie so conquering that mountain and succeeding meant more to him than 5 marathons.</p>

<p>He was rejected from some schools that might have accepted him if we had not disclosed, just on numbers alone but he wanted to attend a place where it did not matter. He received great merit scholarships from other schools. As with most things related to aspiness, people either get it or they do not. If they do not, it is not worth the energy or angst.</p>

<p>He will always be aspie/quirky as a matter of being not just as a way of performing so it is important to him to be open and transparent … after all we ALL have something! :)</p>

<p>He can be open and laugh at himself. He and his friends tease each other when they start monologuing … they call it “sperging” … From the word Aspergers. They are really quite funny comedians about it all.</p>

77

<p>MQD, that was my son’s attitude, exactly. If they didn’t want him there just as he was, he didn’t want to be there! Fit is SO important. Last summer, a friend of my son’s talked to him about Brown (she was a legacy and later got in ED) and we decided to add it onto the end of our East coast college trip last minute. My son fell in love with the campus, with the surrounding restaurants/shops, and with the Open Curriculum and P/F options. He knew wasn’t the typical “Ivy student” with a perfect 4.0, mainly because of his Dysgraphia and Exec. Function issues. However, he felt like it was a good fit intellectually, academically and geographically. He wrote a letter to the Admissions office last fall telling them that he was applying and Brown was his first choice Ivy, and wrote them another letter a few weeks before Ivy Day, explaining why he felt it was the perfect school for him. They knew exactly who he was by the time they accepted him, as did the other schools where he applied. My son could not have cared any less about waitlists and rejections. Half of the schools he applied to wanted him, LDs and all. He’s just so grateful to those schools! </p>

<p>If you don’t mind posting the schools where your son was accepted after disclosing his LD’s, that might be really helpful to future applicants. Congratulations to your son! This is an exciting time! :)</p>

78

<p>Hello - We are just starting the application process and my DD has ADHD inattentive type and went from B/C student 9th & 10th to High honors and honors 11th and going into her senior year. She did well on SAT’s (2100) and ACT’s (32) but her GPA is hurt because of her first two years of high school struggling with ADHD. Once we got a hold of it and figured out the right cocktail of meds and life it is a new person. she does not know how to write about this without looking like a red flag problem - any of your thoughts would be great!</p>

79

<p>@momrabbit, having one’s grades go to honors and high honors doesn’t sound like a red flag problem to me! Sounds like disclosure makes a lot of sense for DD–explains the first 2 years and has a clear record of success to imply that there shouldn’t be problems in the future. Would not base the common app essay on it–but it could go in the supplemental info section or have the guidance counselor mention it in their summary.</p>

80

<p>I agree with those who say don’t disclose LDs or ADHD on application. At least for the more common diagnoses, my take is that colleges just want to know students can do the work and contribute to the community, which they’ll discern from grades and other information. They can see if skills and outcomes improved over time - for whatever reason - and that’s either an issue or not. However, DO consider available learning supports and programs on campus when applying, and encourage your student to disclose once enrolled in order to access accommodations and support.</p>